Why do you think scripture uses 'snake' or 'serpant' to symbolised satan?

[Evan]

Satan is the serpent

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out,
that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
which deceiveth the whole world:
he was cast out into the earth,
and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon,
that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,

Because worm (or serpent or dragon) is used in one book of the bible, it does not mean that all references to worms, serpents, or dragons are referring to the same entity.

The allegorical language of revelation, may be related to the allegorical language of Genesis. But it’s not a proof text (if there is such a thing )

 

[edwest2]

Really? Please explain the miracles of Jesus Christ using common sense and scientific knowledge.

People using what they call science to explain Scripture are usually wrong. Just like some who claim some Catholics who deny what they call science brings ridicule on the faith. Are they joking? We are required to believe God made the Universe from nothing. And the same for any who want to join the Church. Pretty ridiculous sounding, right? Something from nothing? I think most arguments here that are supposed to be about common sense and science are actually about neither.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Quite a bit of the bible is not historical. The epistles aren’t. The Apocolype, Job, Psalms, Song of Songs, Proverbs, the Gospel parables. Another question might be what parts of the biblical books ARE historical.

It is a constant struggle to determine which parts are and which parts are not.

That struggle has been settled by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. The same Catholic Church that has been assailed by Modernists for centuries.

The things Jesus Christ did actually happened in history. They were things God can do and not subject to the kind of pseudo-scientific explanation sometimes offered here.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Obviously, this is a matter of great importance since events in Genesis are often questioned here. Sadly, too much bad information is presented.

Catholics are required to believe that God made the universe from nothing.

Those who look for the Ark are not merely readers of books. The CIA has an aerial image they’ve labeled “Ararat Anomaly.” Research does not progress with the idea that nothing will be found. That prevents people from even looking. The correct approach is to look.

Peace,
Ed

 

[diggerdomer]

Obviously, this is a matter of great importance since events in Genesis are often questioned here. Sadly, too much bad information is presented.

Catholics are required to believe that God made the universe from nothing.

Those who look for the Ark are not merely readers of books. The CIA has an aerial image they’ve labeled “Ararat Anomaly.” Research does not progress with the idea that nothing will be found. That prevents people from even looking. The correct approach is to look.

Peace,
Ed

Hi edwest, just wondering, I responded to you on posts 27-29. Any comment or follow-up? Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

Where is Noah mentioned anywhere apart from the Jewish or Christian tradition? Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

T
The things Jesus Christ did actually happened in history. They were things God can do and not subject to the kind of pseudo-scientific explanation sometimes offered here.

Ok. Maybe.

But isn’t this thread primarily about the Old Testament?

So what’s your point?

 

[diggerdomer]

Thanks.

 

[century153]

It amazes me to know that so many religions make mention of Noah and so many explorers and the like are actually looking for the ark but still some say “its a symbolic story”. Incredible! The Bible is a compilation of writings handed down in HISTORY about HISTORY of the human race. Its the best we have — so we can probably start from there. As in searching for scientiic answers and etc – if they STARTED with the Bible we would probably be about 6000 years ahead of ourselves – instead we wander in the DESERT and BLAME God for everything wrong and then some have the nerve to say there is no God. Yikes!!

 

[edwest2]

Where does the Catholic Church teach this? Thanks. I can’t find it in the Catechism.

"Real History

The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

Adam and Eve: Real People

It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism)."

Please read the first sentence here:

mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/x-Schede/CSNs/CSNs_V_StCentr_04.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[redrosetea]

Cause women hate them ,and we are never wrong…

 

[arthra]

Here is a quote from the Baha’i Writings on Noah:

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”[1] Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and 8 traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”[1]

[1 Qur’án 11:38.]

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 6

 

[century153]

"Real History

The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

Adam and Eve: Real People

It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism)."

Please read the first sentence here:

mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/x-Schede/CSNs/CSNs_V_StCentr_04.html

Peace,
Ed

Very good Ed. Do you know that in the NT Peter says that 1000 years is as a day and a day is as 1000 years with God? So, this tells me that obviously the Bible is history written symbolically in some instances. And this is probably definitely about culture. We tend to think that God was a Catholic Westerner. Actually, a lot of people forget that Jesus was a Jew and all of the New Testament writers were from the Middle East. That is why in the end we should rely on the Church to interpret finally for us – since I don’t believe we have anything better - except, of course, the Holy Spirit to guide us. Thank you for your post.

 

[SunshineZA]

Who exactly are “His” people. Can we be sure that God only loved the Israelites or might God have established covenant with other cultures. Of course the geeneological lines led from David to Jesus (Really Abraham to Jesus),but didn’t Jesus come for the salvation of the whole world and not just a few ? So, maybe other cultures were given some grains of the truth. Maybe others were guided by the Holy Spirit.

You are quite right to say that the Lord revealed truth to the to His people who in turn wrote it down…But must we assume that the text is historically factual or can we say that the truth that has been handed down is what is needed for the salvation of our souls?

Initially all people possessed knowledge of God and the worship of Him in all truth. Because they chose to go their own way, God separated a Nation for Himself from whom the Christ would come. As Catholicks and all those believers called by Christ’s name are called to be separate from the world “to come out of Babylon” and not to be deceived by the serpent, the dragon described in the book of Revelation

 

[cargau]

Initially all people possessed knowledge of God and the worship of Him in all truth. Because they chose to go their own way, God separated a Nation for Himself from whom the Christ would come. As Catholicks and all those believers called by Christ’s name are called to be separate from the world “to come out of Babylon” and not to be deceived by the serpent, the dragon described in the book of Revelation

In the beginning (Genesis) people of the near east struggled to understand the nature of God. Much of the Mesopotamiam literature used myths to describe god(s) who were self serving and created man to be subserviant to the god(s). We see the gradual understanding of monotheism (Yahweh) and the deep love and mercy he showed His people. Both concepts of monotheism and a loving, merciful God were revolutionary new ways of seeing God. We must remember they did not have the benefit of 4,000 years of revelation and understanding.

God ordained the Israelites to be the channel from which the Savior of the World would be incarnate. I think God chose the Jews because, overall they were disposed to and eager to know, love and serve God. Maybe more so than other cultures. Not perfectly, but they did succeed at times.

I don’t know…only speculating.

 

[edwest2]

Very good Ed. Do you know that in the NT Peter says that 1000 years is as a day and a day is as 1000 years with God? So, this tells me that obviously the Bible is history written symbolically in some instances. And this is probably definitely about culture. We tend to think that God was a Catholic Westerner. Actually, a lot of people forget that Jesus was a Jew and all of the New Testament writers were from the Middle East. That is why in the end we should rely on the Church to interpret finally for us – since I don’t believe we have anything better - except, of course, the Holy Spirit to guide us. Thank you for your post.

I have seen, here, way too many posts that convince me otherwise. Parts of the Bible are simply actual history. That’s why during the creation of the world, the writer indicates: “And the evening and the morning were the third (etc.) day.” Kind of a useless addition if you asked me, unless it’s meant to be taken literally.

And yes, since a day can be 1,000 years to God then fine, here we see why some people believe the earth is only 6 or 7,000 years old. Problem solved.

However, just saying the Bible writers were Jews who lived in the Middle East does not take away the divine inspiration given to them. If we look at the Bible as simply a book (or series of books) written by men then there’s no point in calling it Sacred Scripture.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Thanks to this forum, and one other, I have doubts about the dating methods used.

An ancient device of sophisticated construction was found a hundred years ago, but thanks to modern technology, we now know how sophisticated it is:

antikythera-mechanism.gr/project/publications/nature-2008

The question was asked: “What did they use it for?”

I think some things we know about the past are incomplete.

Peace,
Ed

 

[century153]

I have seen, here, way too many posts that convince me otherwise. Parts of the Bible are simply actual history. That’s why during the creation of the world, the writer indicates: “And the evening and the morning were the third (etc.) day.” Kind of a useless addition if you asked me, unless it’s meant to be taken literally.

And yes, since a day can be 1,000 years to God then fine, here we see why some people believe the earth is only 6 or 7,000 years old. Problem solved.

However, just saying the Bible writers were Jews who lived in the Middle East does not take away the divine inspiration given to them. If we look at the Bible as simply a book (or series of books) written by men then there’s no point in calling it Sacred Scripture.

Peace,
Ed

Actually, I do not agree that there is one word in the Bible that is useless. Just because we do not understand or are not able to interpret it in a way we can understand it does not mean it is uselss information. On the contrary, I believe that if we take the Bible as Sacred Scripture inspired by God then we have to know that ALL scripture is useful. I know there is a quote for this in some of Paul’s writings – I just cannot remember where and exactly what.

And, I didn’t mean to insinuate or suggest that the earth is only 6000 years old. I beleive it is much much older than that and I believe there is scientific proof that it is.

 

[SunshineZA]

All snakes, even snakes just hatched, are deadly to their prey. Snakes are poisonous. They strangle, hypnotize, lie in wait, enter ‘homes’ to devour. "detects prey by body heat. So does evil find an entrance into homes, speaking with forked tounge to devour susceptible prey with half truths. Filling the heated mind with poison which spreads throughout the body (family, church or community) even poisoning whole nations causing it’s death and extinction I.e. the fall of the Roman Empire. Watch any soapy on TV and one will notice the presence of the serpent in the manner Western Nations portrays their moral values.

 

[century153]

All snakes, even snakes just hatched, are deadly to their prey. Snakes are poisonous. They strangle, hypnotize, lie in wait, enter ‘homes’ to devour. "detects prey by body heat. So does evil find an entrance into homes, speaking with forked tounge to devour susceptible prey with half truths. Filling the heated mind with poison which spreads throughout the body (family, church or community) even poisoning whole nations causing it’s death and extinction I.e. the fall of the Roman Empire. Watch any soapy on TV and one will notice the presence of the serpent in the manner Western Nations portrays their moral values.

Thank you for the analogy. You see – everything in the Bible has a deeper and counterpart meaning. A counterpart in the spiritual world – actually, I believe everything here on earth is a representation of something in the spirit world. As Paul says, now we see as in a mirror, but soon we will see clearly. For some reason things have remained hidden, but in the end times all these things will be revealed. I believe the time is very near and soon the serpent will be revealed.