Why do YOU use NFP to prevent conception?

[mommamia]

Let’s think about this from a secular matter. Let’s have abc be equal to murder. Let’s have NFP be equal to ignoring the person. If I ignore a person, but do them no harm - does that constitute murdering them?

If you see that person needs help and you ignore them, then I think in a Christian perspective yes. Ignoring the homeless, the hungry, the unborn, and all others who cannot fight for themselves is wrong.
BiologyBrain;5436766:

Let’s have abc equal speeding. Let’s have NFP equal going exactly the speed limit (not below or above). If I go the speed limit am I speeding?

No, but if you choose to sit on the road and not drive, then you are guilty of not obeying speed limits. You can get a ticket for going too slow. I would think that doing nothing, no NFP or bc would be going exactly the speed limit.

Let’s have abc equal a constant speed zone of 25. Let’s have NFP equal a school zone - 25 when school’s in session 55 when no school in session. If I zip through at 55 the constant speed zone of 25 I’m breaking the law. If I go through the school zone while school IS in session at 25 I’m following the law. If I zip through the school zone at 55 while school is NOT in session - am I breaking the law?

No, but this isn’t a very good analogy. Because when school is in session you can still drive through, just slower. According to our morality, you need to stay completely out of the school zone when school is in session. That is a choice, therefore an action.

In other words - even in secular circles, the ‘non-action’ equals an action DOES NOT hold up as equal. The last example is probably the best b/c its a cycle - just like a woman’s fertility. However, abc makes a woman’s fertility ALWAYS the same (theoretically).

Ahh, but we are not talking secularly. But spiritually.

I really don’t have any problem with NFP, I was just answering someones post that it was “contraception” with the fact that yes it is, sometimes.

According to the random house unabridged dictionary contraception means

the deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation by any of various drugs, techniques, or devices; birth control.

But NFP is also “proconception” if used correctly. Which I think makes a difference. Maybe not in a secular way, but in a spiritual way.

But I stand by my argument that NFP is doing something. Heck, why do you think the term “trying to avoid” is used? Because couples that use NFP TTA, are trying not to conceive. You cannot say that NFP is doing nothing. I’ve read the posts, its charting, temps, checks etc… All of which are doing something. Why do you think proponents of NFP like to tout it’s “high success rate”, because it is good contraception. It works.

But, Its a choice, to follow the spiritual teachings of the Church, instead of the feel good teachings of society.

By choosing say… not to go with my friends to a all male review, I have done something. I have shown my friends that I will stand by my morals and values, even if that alienates them. But action by inaction is a powerful thing. Civil disobedience is a good example of action by inaction. By choosing not to do something, we can be a powerful light in a dark world.

 

[Em_in_FL]

According to our morality, you need to stay completely out of the school zone when school is in session. That is a choice, therefore an action.

:doh2: Can you please go into more detail on your opinion here? Where does “our morality” say we need to TOTALLY AVOID marital relations if we are not interested in conceiving each and every time?

Because if this is the case (which it’s not), then ANY relations in the infertile phases would be considered immoral.

But I stand by my argument that NFP is doing something. Heck, why do you think the term “trying to avoid” is used? Because couples that use NFP TTA, are trying not to conceive. You cannot say that NFP is doing nothing. I’ve read the posts, its charting, temps, checks etc… All of which are doing something. Why do you think proponents of NFP like to tout it’s “high success rate”, because it is good contraception. It works.

But, Its a choice, to follow the spiritual teachings of the Church, instead of the feel good teachings of society.

By choosing say… not to go with my friends to a all male review, I have done something. I have shown my friends that I will stand by my morals and values, even if that alienates them. But action by inaction is a powerful thing. Civil disobedience is a good example of action by inaction. By choosing not to do something, we can be a powerful light in a dark world.

Again… where does morality teach that it’s wrong to want to avoid children for a just/serious/grave reason?

Is the SOLE purpose of marital relations to procreate? Yes, children are an ultimate purpose of marriage, but each and every time relations take place? Is GOD calling you to have marital relations with your spouse each and every time you’re fertile - is that what your opinion of this is?.. because it’s certainly not the teaching of the church!

 

[agapewolf]

No, a choice to not do something is exactly that…NOT doing something. It is inaction.

Seems everyone would benefit with reading some basic philosophy- Love and Responsibility.

 

[Rafaela]

A child will still be a child, with or without a sibling around… Dd1 and Ds1 are pretty close in age (15 mo) and they are growing up together, and loving having someone to share with (lol, and so is Ds2). They are 4 and almost 3 and tell each other jokes and crack each other up, and entertain each other in ways that us adults could never do. In some ways, they are able to be more childlike than other kids I have met that are alone among adults. I dunno…

Of course this is right, but I am not sure whether in our situation, only one parent working in a small salary, it would be correct for us to have more immediately after this one. It comes on responsibility also. When I have received my diplom and have also a job, it won’t be
problematic. Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Of course this is right, but I am not sure whether in our situation, only one parent working in a small salary, it would be correct for us to have more immediately after this one. It comes on responsibility also. When I have received my diplom and have also a job, it won’t be
problematic. Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

I wasn’t addressing your personal situation, I would not dare to suggest whether you have or do not have serious reasons, up to you, your spouse and God I was just addressing the suggestion that not avoiding would affect the child’s right to be a child.

 

[whatevergirl]

Why are these threads/discussion mainly with women debating, communicating, having dialogue back and forth? I don’t see enough men jumping in. Just looking through threads like this, and ones in the past…it seems like mainly women talking about this. That is part of the beauty of NFP–unlike ABC methods, it requires that BOTH spouses be on board with the reasons for using it in the first place to conceive or not…I would like to see more posts here from male perspectives–NFP is a team sport.

 

[mommamia]

:doh2: Can you please go into more detail on your opinion here? Where does “our morality” say we need to TOTALLY AVOID marital relations if we are not interested in conceiving each and every time?

Because if this is the case (which it’s not), then ANY relations in the infertile phases would be considered immoral.

No, what I meant is that we abstain during fertile periods. “When school is in session” And the Church teaches that it is sinful to try to get around these fertile periods by other means, such as masturbation, withdraw etc… So some choose to abstain, and take the action of sacrifice and love for the best interests of partner and family, which I assume is the reason for trying to avoid pregnancy.

Again… where does morality teach that it’s wrong to want to avoid children for a just/serious/grave reason?

Is the SOLE purpose of marital relations to procreate? Yes, children are an ultimate purpose of marriage, but each and every time relations take place? Is GOD calling you to have marital relations with your spouse each and every time you’re fertile - is that what your opinion of this is?.. because it’s certainly not the teaching of the church!

I don’t think there is anything morally wrong to avoid having children for just reasons. And I don’t feel I can decide for anyone else what those reasons are. I don’t even have any issues with anyone using NFP at all. Honestly, I don’t think your family choices are my business at all. Just saying that if you are using NFP to avoid, it is contraception, just not in the feel good anything goes way that our society as a whole perceives it. And if you are using NFP to conceive, then you are using it proconception. It is nothing more than what it is. A natural way to plan your family, to the point that such things can be planned. We all know that God always has the last word in such things.

And I still think it is an action. Just one of love and sacrifice, instead of “I’m going to do what I want no matter what” that the use of artificial contraception can lead to.

I’m really not trying to upset anyone here I have no problems with the use of NFP at all. I have no problems with what I know of the Church’s teaching on NFP. I’m not here to argue if it’s right or wrong. But it is what it is, as I said in a previous post, a Natural way of planning family size around what is best for your family. This includes both trying to avoid, and trying to conceive. NFP is used for both. If you read my first post I pointed out that it could not be called a true “contraceptive” because it has more than one purpose. It can be used not only to avoid, but to conceive, or to help a woman keep track of her cycles, which can tip her off to health problems earlier than women who are not so familiar with their body, or which artificial bc can even mask or hide.

 

[agapewolf]

THe point is still being missed here. NFP is INaction regarding the sex act. There is nothing done to pervert the sex act itself. It is not having the sex act at all…to do anything to it. Therefore it is impossible to call it contraception.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

According to the random house unabridged dictionary contraception means

the deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation by any of various drugs, techniques

Yeah, it all goes down to what contraception means or doesn’t mean. The differences between what is morally permissible (NFP to avoid, or complete abstinence) as opposed to what is not morally permissible (anything that perverts the act) is still there, regardless of what definition of contraception is used.
I think the problem with that definition above is that it simply implies that sexual activity is taking place rather than stating it (I mean, why would you need any technique, drug etc if there was no sexual activity to begin with.

I think this other definition is clearer: contraception

Any practice that serves to prevent conception during sexual activity.

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source

Since it implies that the practice must prevent conception during the activity (and in NFP the couple is never preventing conception during the activity, while with all other forms something is done or has been done to affect the procreative aspect of intercourse in one way or another.

 

[Tosk]

The important thing is that although the given definition for contraception is often ambiguous and can include NFP the moral distinction between ABC and NFP is clear. NFP doesn’t do anything to change the reproductive nature of the sex act. There isn’t anything about not planning to have sex next week that changes the nature of the sex act right now.

 

[Rico_S]

Why are these threads/discussion mainly with women debating, communicating, having dialogue back and forth? I don’t see enough men jumping in. Just looking through threads like this, and ones in the past…it seems like mainly women talking about this.

This is b/c this forum is like 20:1 female:male. Most topics have little (name removed by moderator)ut from the guys in the family/parenting forum, so I don’t think guys avoid this topic in particular.

That is part of the beauty of NFP–unlike ABC methods, it requires that BOTH spouses be on board with the reasons for using it in the first place to conceive or not…I would like to see more posts here from male perspectives–NFP is a team sport.

This concept gets tossed around a lot, and in my opinion, isn’t valid. Using either NFP or ABC to avoid conception is something where agreement and cooperation is critical…just like most aspects of the marital relationship. No matter how immoral one views abc, the couples who practice it still require communication and agreement…so NFP is not unique on this matter.

I understand how NFP is touted as the method that involves both the man and wife. As someone who pracitced Sympto-Thermal method on and off for 8 years, I dunno if I agree. I mean, I was involved in that I understood what she were measuring, and I was familiar with her charts etc. But absolutely the responsibility of taking daily temps, checking mucus and cervical position fell on my wife. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of NFP practicing couples operated in this fashion. Sure, I did some plotting on the charts, at one point I was the one who handed her the thermometer when the alarm went off…but I doubt she ever felt I was an equal partner in the endeavor. I am sure most here have better husbands that made tremendous efforts to make you feel that this was a joint venture…but in our world, the responsibility rested almost exclusively on her. I would not be suprised if people of this forum had different experiences, nor would I be surprised if my experience is actually the norm (not the norm on this board).

 

[mommamia]

The important thing is that although the given definition for contraception is often ambiguous and can include NFP the moral distinction between ABC and NFP is clear. NFP doesn’t do anything to change the reproductive nature of the sex act. There isn’t anything about not planning to have sex next week that changes the nature of the sex act right now.

I totally agree. NFP is a natural (God given) way of helping us not to have more than we can handle. There is nothing artificial or immoral about it.

And call it what you want, the reality is most of the posts I’ve seen are from folks who use it to prevent the possibility of pregnancy. I always assume that these folks have good reasons which are probably none of my business.

In fact, the title of this thread is “WHY DO YOU USE NFP TO PREVENT CONCEPTION?”
So obviously, some are using it in a way to prevent conception. Therefore contraceptively.

Its all just words anyway Thats all I was saying in the first place. It’s just a word, just because as Catholics some have put this stigma on a word, the reality is a word is just a word.

 

[agapewolf]

I totally agree. NFP is a natural (God given) way of helping us not to have more than we can handle. There is nothing artificial or immoral about it.

And call it what you want, the reality is most of the posts I’ve seen are from folks who use it to prevent the possibility of pregnancy. I always assume that these folks have good reasons which are probably none of my business.

In fact, the title of this thread is “WHY DO YOU USE NFP TO PREVENT CONCEPTION?”
So obviously, some are using it in a way to prevent conception. Therefore contraceptively.

Its all just words anyway Thats all I was saying in the first place. It’s just a word, just because as Catholics some have put this stigma on a word, the reality is a word is just a word.

The way it was titled was misleading. NFP can’t be used to “prevent” conception. It can be used to avoid it. It is impossible for an action to happen when there is no action.

It isn’t just words, because that is where confusion comes in.

 

[Joya]

This is b/c this forum is like 20:1 female:male. Most topics have little (name removed by moderator)ut from the guys in the family/parenting forum, so I don’t think guys avoid this topic in particular.

This concept gets tossed around a lot, and in my opinion, isn’t valid. Using either NFP or ABC to avoid conception is something where agreement and cooperation is critical…just like most aspects of the marital relationship. No matter how immoral one views abc, the couples who practice it still require communication and agreement…so NFP is not unique on this matter.

I understand how NFP is touted as the method that involves both the man and wife. As someone who pracitced Sympto-Thermal method on and off for 8 years, I dunno if I agree. I mean, I was involved in that I understood what she were measuring, and I was familiar with her charts etc. But absolutely the responsibility of taking daily temps, checking mucus and cervical position fell on my wife. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of NFP practicing couples operated in this fashion. Sure, I did some plotting on the charts, at one point I was the one who handed her the thermometer when the alarm went off…but I doubt she ever felt I was an equal partner in the endeavor. I am sure most here have better husbands that made tremendous efforts to make you feel that this was a joint venture…but in our world, the responsibility rested almost exclusively on her. I would not be suprised if people of this forum had different experiences, nor would I be surprised if my experience is actually the norm (not the norm on this board).

Thanks for sharing. Your experience is very similar to my and my husband’s experience when we used nfp. In fact, you did even more to assist your wife. My husband played no role in monitoring my cycles. Not that I didn’t mind; I enjoyed doing it myself. I used Creighton which involves no temp taking, so it really limited how he could help me.

Being the one aware of my fertility, it was I who informed him when we could and could not have sex. Nfp makes the woman the “gate-keeper” so to speak and this annoyed me more than it annoyed my husband! This concept can work fine with some couples whereas with others it can be a source of frustration.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

The important thing is that although the given definition for contraception is often ambiguous and can include NFP the moral distinction between ABC and NFP is clear. NFP doesn’t do anything to change the reproductive nature of the sex act. There isn’t anything about not planning to have sex next week that changes the nature of the sex act right now.

 

[Em_in_FL]

This concept gets tossed around a lot, and in my opinion, isn’t valid. Using either NFP or ABC to avoid conception is something where agreement and cooperation is critical…just like most aspects of the marital relationship. No matter how immoral one views abc, the couples who practice it still require communication and agreement…so NFP is not unique on this matter.

I understand how NFP is touted as the method that involves both the man and wife. As someone who pracitced Sympto-Thermal method on and off for 8 years, I dunno if I agree. I mean, I was involved in that I understood what she were measuring, and I was familiar with her charts etc. But absolutely the responsibility of taking daily temps, checking mucus and cervical position fell on my wife. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of NFP practicing couples operated in this fashion. Sure, I did some plotting on the charts, at one point I was the one who handed her the thermometer when the alarm went off…but I doubt she ever felt I was an equal partner in the endeavor. I am sure most here have better husbands that made tremendous efforts to make you feel that this was a joint venture…but in our world, the responsibility rested almost exclusively on her. I would not be suprised if people of this forum had different experiences, nor would I be surprised if my experience is actually the norm (not the norm on this board).

Thanks for sharing. Your experience is very similar to my and my husband’s experience when we used nfp. In fact, you did even more to assist your wife. My husband played no role in monitoring my cycles. Not that I didn’t mind; I enjoyed doing it myself. I used Creighton which involves no temp taking, so it really limited how he could help me.

Being the one aware of my fertility, it was I who informed him when we could and could not have sex. Nfp makes the woman the “gate-keeper” so to speak and this annoyed me more than it annoyed my husband! This concept can work fine with some couples whereas with others it can be a source of frustration.

I agree that most of the “work” lies on the wife… but I don’t understand how that’s a problem? It’s not like I’m *motivated *to use NFP as an excuse for not having relations - that would be an abuse - and hey, why would I want to avoid THAT!
I always have my charts out to see - and he knows well that he can participate in any way he wants…
I can see how if the wife is using NFP as an EXCUSE it could be REALLY bad - and that “gate keeper” imagery makes sense… but that’s not right!

 

[whatevergirl]

*Rico–I’m not sure of the 20:1 ratio of women to men, on here…maybe. Where did you get that stat?

I hear what you’re saying about how a man would be involved in it…

I do believe that the woman obviously is involved more directly with cycle tracking, etc…to EM’s point, doing the ‘work’ part of it, but the intent to use NFP for conception or not, should be a decision both make, collective. The question of the thread is why do you use NFP to prevent conception…and for some reason, we hear more from women on this, than men…when men make up the other half of the couple using NFP. That’s more of a my point. *

 

[whatevergirl]

This is b/c this forum is like 20:1 female:male. Most topics have little (name removed by moderator)ut from the guys in the family/parenting forum, so I don’t think guys avoid this topic in particular.

This concept gets tossed around a lot, and in my opinion, isn’t valid. Using either NFP or ABC to avoid conception is something where agreement and cooperation is critical…just like most aspects of the marital relationship. No matter how immoral one views abc, the couples who practice it still require communication and agreement…so NFP is not unique on this matter.

I understand how NFP is touted as the method that involves both the man and wife. As someone who pracitced Sympto-Thermal method on and off for 8 years, I dunno if I agree. I mean, I was involved in that I understood what she were measuring, and I was familiar with her charts etc. But absolutely the responsibility of taking daily temps, checking mucus and cervical position fell on my wife. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of NFP practicing couples operated in this fashion. Sure, I did some plotting on the charts, at one point I was the one who handed her the thermometer when the alarm went off…but I doubt she ever felt I was an equal partner in the endeavor. I am sure most here have better husbands that made tremendous efforts to make you feel that this was a joint venture…but in our world, the responsibility rested almost exclusively on her. I would not be suprised if people of this forum had different experiences, nor would I be surprised if my experience is actually the norm (not the norm on this board).

*The question of the thread isn’t who is involved in charting, etc…but why do you use NFP to prevent conception? A question that I would hope a husband could answer without his wife. And visa versa…that is more of what I was getting at…doesn’t matter how the couple navigates the details of NFP, rather why is it mainly women responding as to the REASON behind using NFP to avoid in the first place. *

 

[Rico_S]

*Rico–I’m not sure of the 20:1 ratio of women to men, on here…maybe. Where did you get that stat?
*

I made it up! It is just a guess based on observation. Clearly more woman post, (and post more often) then men in the family/parenting forum. Whether it is 5:1, 10:1 or 100:1 I don’t know. 20:1 seems pretty reasonble to me…but it was not my intent to present that number as hard data. I am sorry if it came across that way.

I do believe that the woman obviously is involved more directly with cycle tracking, etc…to EM’s point, doing the ‘work’ part of it, but the intent to use NFP for conception or not, should be a decision both make, collective.

No problem here, I agree with you 100%. I was just responding to your statement…

That is part of the beauty of NFP–unlike ABC methods, it requires that BOTH spouses be on board with the reasons for using it in the first place to conceive or not.

I was simply pointing out that I disagree with your thinking that abc doesn’t require the same agreement/communication that NFP requires. I elaborated a bit about the “team sport” aspect, b/c I do think NFP is often presented as method that requires great involvment of both husband and wife…trying to distuingish it from abc (…leading to statements like yours). From my experience, if NFP does distinguish itself from abc in this area, it is superficial at best.

–Rico

 

[Rico_S]

I agree that most of the “work” lies on the wife… but I don’t understand how that’s a problem? It’s not like I’m *motivated *to use NFP as an excuse for not having relations - that would be an abuse - and hey, why would I want to avoid THAT!

No problem at all, EM. I think that is quite natural that the burden of monitoring female fertility cycles would fall mostly on the woman.