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JasonL69
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You’re the one that introduced multiple books and Paul.
Why does 1 Corinthians 6:9 say that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
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ProdglArchitect
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It’s times like this that I really miss the “rolls eyes” smiley.ProdglArchitect:
One of the revelations in Revelation is that John actually wrote the Pauline epistles.
The seven letters to the seven churches are reminiscent of Paul’s letters, no?
Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church known for having laboured hard and not fainted, and separating themselves from the wicked; admonished for having forsaken its first love (2:4)
Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church admired for its tribulation and poverty; forecast to suffer persecution (2:10)
Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church located at ‘Satan’s seat’; needed to repent of allowing false teachers (2:16)
Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church known for its charity, whose “latter works are greater than the former”; held the teachings of a false prophetess (2:20)
Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that has a good name; cautioned to fortify itself and return to God through repentance (3:2-3)
Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church steadfast in faith, that had kept God’s word and endured patiently (3:10)
Laodicea, near Denizli (see Laodicean Church) (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church that was lukewarm and insipid (to God) (3:16)
If you speak Latin you will see in the first letters of the names of the churches form the word EPISTOLA which means LETTER.
The remaining two first letters are SP{ for SAUL/PAUL.
Quite the coincidence, huh?
The first letters are EPSTL SP, leaving from EPISTOLA ----- A IO which is ‘BY ME’.
John admits he wrote the Pauline epistles. It’s an ancient code form. In this case Roman world, Roman code.
You can make any book of the Bible say anything you want if you’re willing to butcher it in this fashion.
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JasonL69
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Which takes us back to the topic in hand. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say, keeping the butchery theme …
Thank you for making my point.
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ProdglArchitect
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I didn’t make your point. You haven’t made a point…
I’ve read through this entire thread and I haven’t seen you make an actual point. You just throw around accusations and random nonsense.
YOU butchered the texts. There is a universe of difference between twisting it to say what you want it to, and taking what it says at face value (accounting for cultural and historical context, of course).
I’ve read through this entire thread and I haven’t seen you make an actual point. You just throw around accusations and random nonsense.
YOU butchered the texts. There is a universe of difference between twisting it to say what you want it to, and taking what it says at face value (accounting for cultural and historical context, of course).
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JasonL69
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I pointed out that the common translation for ‘homosexual’ used in the passage in question in the Greek actually means ‘the discarded’… How much more ‘face value’ can you get?
Nobody accepted it. So I took another path which you concluded for me.
Twisting a translation to ones own advantage is butchery in my view.
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PJM
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So my friend, your position is that homsexuality is somehow GOD approved because it is not on that list?
It is [or ought to be] common knowledge that:
Sex is reserved MORALLY for married couples [a man- & his wife]
And that NOT every ["unprotected]"sexual act automatically results in a pregnancy
WHY is that? It is because God has built into man-women intimacy HIS OWN method of Birth-Control. [The NATURAL method]
Logically
It ought to obvious that God CREATED His own method for Birth Control for at least ONE very easy to understand reason.
That REASON being that GOD desires; DEMANDS his Sovereign RIGHT as our Creator the only sustainer of ALL life forms; Both life and death issues; ALL of them are God’s EXCLUSIVE domain.
Catechism: #2335 Each of the two sexes is an image of the power and tenderness of God, with equal dignity though in a different way. The union of man and woman in marriage is a way of imitating in the flesh the Creator’s generosity and fecundity: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." All human generations proceed from this union.
Biblically
John.1 Verses 12 to 14: “But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. “
Romans 1: 26-32 “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another,
men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.”
Gen.38: 6-10 And Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah’s first-born, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. Then Judah [the Father of both sons] said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother.[And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also” MEANING GOD KILLED HIM BOTH PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY [condemned to ETERNAL Hell!]
And in effect this s precisely what ACTIVE homosexuality does with the SAME end Judgment of hell by GOD if NOT repented, Confessed 1: Jn 5: 16-17 , John 20:2923
Pray very much
GBY,
Patrick
It is [or ought to be] common knowledge that:
Sex is reserved MORALLY for married couples [a man- & his wife]
And that NOT every ["unprotected]"sexual act automatically results in a pregnancy
WHY is that? It is because God has built into man-women intimacy HIS OWN method of Birth-Control. [The NATURAL method]
Logically
It ought to obvious that God CREATED His own method for Birth Control for at least ONE very easy to understand reason.
That REASON being that GOD desires; DEMANDS his Sovereign RIGHT as our Creator the only sustainer of ALL life forms; Both life and death issues; ALL of them are God’s EXCLUSIVE domain.
Catechism: #2335 Each of the two sexes is an image of the power and tenderness of God, with equal dignity though in a different way. The union of man and woman in marriage is a way of imitating in the flesh the Creator’s generosity and fecundity: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." All human generations proceed from this union.
Biblically
John.1 Verses 12 to 14: “But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. “
Romans 1: 26-32 “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another,
men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.”
Gen.38: 6-10 And Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah’s first-born, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. Then Judah [the Father of both sons] said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother.[And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also” MEANING GOD KILLED HIM BOTH PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY [condemned to ETERNAL Hell!]
And in effect this s precisely what ACTIVE homosexuality does with the SAME end Judgment of hell by GOD if NOT repented, Confessed 1: Jn 5: 16-17 , John 20:2923
Pray very much
GBY,
Patrick
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JasonL69
Guest
Sleeping with a brother’s wife contravenes Lev 18:16. God’s laws are perfect and work retrospectively as well.
Onan knew that the offspring would not be his because she was already pregnant. Were he to lie with her as well it would not be clear who the baby’s father was which is what Lev 18:22 is about: two men with a woman and the problems it causes if there is a pregnancy. Blood (lines) become confused. Blood is upon them. Onan would have effectively been sleeping with Er in a threesome: man with mankind lying with a woman according to the Hebrew…
God slew him because he actually laid with his brother’s wife, uncovering her nakedness (lev 18), not because he spilt his semen to the ground…
Not sure what this has to do with homosexuality…
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JasonL69
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Ever considered that LGBT are the pinnacle of humanity in God’s Creation and they are designed not to procreate for that very reason? Maybe if an LGBT person were to procreate it could lead to a degeneration in the human population, things like cancer, dwarfism, Down’s syndrome, deformed babies, Alzheimer’s…? How many LGBT have had offspring due to the Church’s ‘morality’ over the years? One in two people will now suffer with cancer and it seems to be increasing… Unfortunately because of the stigma of LGBT and no records and a lack of knowledge of the genetics involved we don’t know if there is a correlation.
Maybe our current health crisis is down to 'natural (gay) relations being given up for the ‘unnatural’ (straight) by LGBT people…?
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theCardinalbird
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These points of your are just mere speculations. The fact that you think God would create someone to not procreate is in fact false with no evidence. Cancer is increasing Because people don’t know how to eat properly which is huge for cancer to develop. Whats the stigma to LGBT people? Also you realize that heterosexuality is in fact natural and homosexuality is unnatural because homosexuality closes the act to life while heterosexuality opens the act to life. Also Homosexuals can stay chaste, there is no harm in it. whats harmful though is homosexual acts. That’s an STD waiting to happen (Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men are 17 times more likely to get anal cancer than heterosexual men.)
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JasonL69
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Until 1967 in the UK homosexuality was outlawed. Therein lies the stigma. ‘Coming out’… the phrase expresses a revelation.
Many straight women can’t have children and know. Many straight men can’t have children and know. They are still God’s Creation and have sex. Are you therefore depriving them of sex? They too close the act of life… They have sex for pleasure. Where is the difference?
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theCardinalbird
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First, the obligatory message: The Bible is clear that God designed people to have sex only within the context of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is wrong, whether it is for pleasure or any other purpose (1 Corinthians 6:18).
Nowhere does the Bible prohibit sex for pleasure. In fact, the Song of Solomon roundly approves of sex for pleasure. The origin of the church’s stance against sex for pleasure is a bit convoluted and not well documented until the sixteenth century. The Council of Trent (1546) declared that amor concupiscentiae, or sensual longing (i.e.: lust), was not sin in and of itself but did have the potential to lead to sin. Eventually, the Catholic Church formally decided that sex for the sole purpose of pleasure was not appropriate. Not necessarily because of the birth control issue, although they insist that every sexual encounter must be open to the possibility of pregnancy, but because the sex act is a worshipful expression of the love, self-sacrifice, and union of the marriage relationship.
This is deeper and richer than sex for pleasure, and it is certainly biblical to appreciate sex as a physical manifestation of God’s statement that “they [the husband and wife] shall become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24). This point of view is also supported by 1 Corinthians 7:3-5. Individuals who seek sex merely for physical pleasure—even within a marriage—are not exemplifying the spirit of mutual submission God intended. Sex should be a part of and a result of a loving marriage relationship, not merely a physical release.
Here’s the rest of you like to read: Redirect Notice
Also here’s Canon Law: http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/04/24/fertility-and-marriage-validity/
Also Catholic Answers:
Nowhere does the Bible prohibit sex for pleasure. In fact, the Song of Solomon roundly approves of sex for pleasure. The origin of the church’s stance against sex for pleasure is a bit convoluted and not well documented until the sixteenth century. The Council of Trent (1546) declared that amor concupiscentiae, or sensual longing (i.e.: lust), was not sin in and of itself but did have the potential to lead to sin. Eventually, the Catholic Church formally decided that sex for the sole purpose of pleasure was not appropriate. Not necessarily because of the birth control issue, although they insist that every sexual encounter must be open to the possibility of pregnancy, but because the sex act is a worshipful expression of the love, self-sacrifice, and union of the marriage relationship.
This is deeper and richer than sex for pleasure, and it is certainly biblical to appreciate sex as a physical manifestation of God’s statement that “they [the husband and wife] shall become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24). This point of view is also supported by 1 Corinthians 7:3-5. Individuals who seek sex merely for physical pleasure—even within a marriage—are not exemplifying the spirit of mutual submission God intended. Sex should be a part of and a result of a loving marriage relationship, not merely a physical release.
Here’s the rest of you like to read: Redirect Notice
Also here’s Canon Law: http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/04/24/fertility-and-marriage-validity/
Also Catholic Answers:
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JasonL69
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It was Adam, a man, that said that, not God.
Gen 2 23-24
And Adam said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”
And in fact ‘sleeping with the flesh of my flesh, his kin,’ is incest and contravenes the perfect laws God gave in Leviticus 18 which must be retrospective by definition because God is eternal - that which was, that which is and that which is to come, according to Revelation 1.
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TheNeutral
Guest
…Because homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
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JasonL69
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A kingdom is finite. It has borders. The kingdom of Heaven has borders and walls, cf New Jerusalem which is only 12000 stadia wide and measurable with a rod according to John in Revelation. Bit like a prison.
Heaven does not. It is infinite. Homosexuals go to Heaven.
Heaven does not. It is infinite. Homosexuals go to Heaven.
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theCardinalbird
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Prodigal_Son
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But that is not what the Bible says. It says that “men who lie with men” (and do not repent) will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
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JasonL69
Guest
If this is your Bible then:
The regulations of the Law of Moses were binding only upon those to whom it was given at the time, and subsequently upon all who lived under that law until its abolition (at the death of Christ — Romans 7:1ff; Ephesians 2:11ff; Colossians 2:13-17)
Cool. So the traditional reading of Lev 18 22 and 20 13 is irrelevant. That law doesn’t apply.
The ten commandments also don’t apply. Great. Catholic Catechism rules on homosexuality are based on ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery’
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
So according to your reference Catholic teachings on homosexuality have no foundation. Is that site a Catholic one?
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JasonL69
Guest
Where? In the OT? Those laws were abolished with the death of Christ according to this site. (See Levitical Code, para 3)
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Prodigal_Son
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In 1 Cor. 6:9. We’ve gone over this. The word is arsenokoitai, and it literally means “those men who lie with men”.
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