Why does Anglican-rite liturgy attract so many Catholics?

[Contarini]

Edwin,
The Church doesn’t just “imply” that a modified Anglican ritual could be valid–this is directly stated. It’s a given that there are already Anglican Catholic priests celebrating valid and licit Masses using missal(s) approved by the Holy See.

Given where?

The Book of Divine Worship does not have Anglican Eucharistic Prayers in it.

Where are these priests using distinctively Anglican versions of the Eucharistic canon approved by the Holy See? And what are these texts? Where might I find them?

Please note that I’m specifically talking about the Eucharistic canon–of course many other aspects of Anglican liturgy are fine from Rome’s perspective.

Edwin

 

[BernadetteM]

can you cite a specific instance where a bishop does not allow the celebration of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form? i know that for the EF to be celebrated there has to be a priest who is qualified to do so. perhaps bishops have denied EF celebrations on this ground (no one is qualified in the diocese) rather than denying because they don’t want the EF

Choy,

In our diocese there is only one parish that has the EF and people must come for miles to attend. As suggested go to the Traditiional forum and you will see many posts where people are saying that it is impossible to find an EF liturgy. Many Bishops don’t want this form celebrated. in fact, Pope Benedict had to enforce this by saying that if several people or a priest desired the EF it would be up to them not the Bishop.

Anglicanorum Coetibus specifically states that Latin Rite Catholics cannot join Anglican Use parishes. however, they may freely attend the Mass

This will be clarified in the future once the Ordinariates are set up. As of now there are many Latin Rite Catholics registered in Anglican Use parishes. I know that in one it took the Bishop a while before he allowed LR Catholics to be members, but has now given his permission.

Just for your information I am very involved with many priests and people of knowledge who are joining the Ordinariate. All the Anglican Use parishes will be part of it. Pope Benedict appears to want parishes and diocese to become more orthodox. He has stated he would rather see a smaller Catholic Church which is purer. He made this statement in 2005 while still a Cardinal.

currently, all TAC parishes in the US, Canada and Australia have applied for Full Communion. the list can be seen in their respective websites of those parishes. there’s not a lot. for example here in Vancouver, there’s only one TAC parish. parishioners may also decide not to join the parish into the Catholic Church, and move to a mainstream Anglican Church. although i doubt that would happen because the TAC has not been part of the Anglican Communion for quite a while

As they say on the Anglo Catholic website, which is for Anglicans and Catholics who have already converted, also Catholics who are Latin Rite “the Pope has called the bluff of many Anglicans who said they wanted to be part of the Catholic Church”. Now is the time for them to actually follow through. There are many Anglicans who want to be considered Catholics and feel they are already Catholic, but don’t want to be under the authority of the Pope. This process will weed out the wheat from the tares. There are members of several Anglican groups who broke away from the Anglican Communion or TEC who will come into the Ordinariate as individuals. Some ASAP, some it will take more time.

What our parish went through during the process of establishing the Anglican Use is what is going on now. Our parish split three ways, some Catholic, some became part of an Continuing Anglican group (they are now decerning coming into the Ordinariate) and some became Orthodox.

hhmmm… again can you site references to such claim? as i’ve read from the TAC website, they’ve already sent their applications to the Vatican for full communion. so i don’t see how individual bishops can block that. if you’re talking about simply the Anglican Use Mass, perhaps the reason again is that there is no qualified priest to say the Mass in the diocese, or the number of people requesting just aren’t enough

I never said individual Bishops can block this. They could with the Anglican Use, but the Pope took this out of their hands and the Ordinary of the Ordinariate will deal with the CDF directly, although will be in contact with the local Bishop out of courtesy. The Ordinary although not a Bishop per se will sit in the meetings with the Bishops and be given the respect of a Bishop.

As I also stated Our Lady of the Atonement started with only 18 members and that included the priest and his family. There are many priests at this time who are wishing to come into the Ordinariate so it appears there will be enough to pastor these new parishes.

You might want to go to the Anglo Catholic website to get more of a feel for what is actually going on and have more of an understanding of where some Anglicans are coming from.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[BernadetteM]

The liturgy isn’t about to be changed. What makes you think it would be changed?

Even before the Pope offered the Apostolic Constitution to Anglicans, the Anglican Use parishes have been hoping to have changes made to their liturgy. The Church is the one who decided in the beginning what would be in the liturgy and what would not be. At this time the name of their book is called the Book of Divine Worship.

The Anglican Book of Common Prayer has already been tweaked for orthodoxy rendering the Book of Divine Worship. It’s a done deal.

Boatbearer,

Parts of the AU Mass were actually taken from the Roman Rite, which the Episcopalians in 1979 used for their BCP 1979.

The Canon is not from the OF Rite I, it is more in line with the EF. Actually if you read the Canon of the Sarum Use it is almost the same. Go to OLA website and look at Rite I and you will see the exact form used.

Now that there will be Anglicans from all over the world coming into the Ordinariate a new liturgy will be created that hopefully will satisfy everyone. Anglicans have always used different liturgies and since most of the incoming Anglicans are of Anglo Catholic backgrounds, one of the Missals might be used and modified where it is needed.

The Anglo Catholic website has had long discussions on this topic.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[baltobetsy]

It has some years ago with the Book of Divine Worship as used by Latin Rite Catholics who take advantage of the Anglican-use provision:

atonementonline.com/bodw.php

Yup - I have my own copy. What I really meant was that it become more widespread, and most especially, that I can go! (Selfish me! )

Betsy

 

[BernadetteM]

The Anglican-Use within the Church is a well hidden. If you think the Latin Mass has run into resistence from local Bishops, talk to AU priests and those who want an AU Mass.
Up until the announcement of the Ordinariate, there was no pipeline for replacement priests. If a man sought vocation as a priest from an AU parish, he had not choice but to go into the “Latin” Rite. There are not seminaries setup to teach Anglican Use. No classes. Bishops, as I said earlier, are in many cases overtly against and hostile to setting up AU parishes.

Fr. Mark,

Once the Ordinariate is established their will be an area in some seminaries that will be for future Anglican Use priests to supplement what the normal Catholic seminaries are lacking. This is for their formation as Anglican Use priests. I believe this will be for new seminarians not for Anglican priests who are now coming into the Church.

when an AU parish loses a priest due to age. he is not replaced with an AU priest, but with a priest trained in a normal Catholic seminary. The parish ceases to be AU. Now thats if an AU parish can even be established. Everyday we in the process of seeking communion with Rome through the ordinariate recieve calls or personally know of Anglican clergy and laity who have converted to Rome prior. Who wanted to establish an AU parish and the Bishops refused. Part of the reason the Ordinariate is to be established is to counter this environment. ArchBishop Gomez of L.A. is supportive. Those in L.A. who were denied under the last Archbishop, can now approach this current one and find someone who friendly and helpful.

So past performance is not an indication of future development.

Yes Archbishop Gomez is a very orthodox priest and was over Our Lady of the Atonement parish. The Los Angeles Diocese is very lucky to have him. I believe you mentioned Fr. Phillips before and he can be most helpful in explaining what happened to two of the AU parishes which closed.

Fr. Mark

When the priest at Our Lady of Walsingham reitred he was replaced with another AU priest. When the Ordinariate is implemented there will be more priests than parishes from what I read and these priests will probably assist at Latin Rite parishes until there is a need for them at an AU parish.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[FrDavid96]

The good news is that with the coming ordinariates, it will be very difficult for a local bishop to outright block a new Anglican-Catholic parish. Yes, he will have the authority to do so, but exercising that authority will be hard to justify, especially since the new ordinaries can act as advocates for these potential parishes. I rather doubt that any bishop would want to be in a situation where an Anglican Ordinary is forced to appeal to Rome because a local Ordinary “doesn’t want” an Anglican parish within his diocese. There is a certain irony here in that the very opposition to Anglican parishes is what brought (at least in part) the new norms to provide for those parishes.

Correction.

The future Anglican Ordinary will only have to “hear the opinion” of the local bishop before establishing a parish. So the local bishop will no longer have any real authority to block future Anglican parishes.

 

[BernadetteM]

Sorry about my responses being so confusing. I am not very technical and have no idea how to insert my responses after another poster’s questions.

If someone would be so kind to help me out if would be greatly appreciated. Please make your instructions non complicated, as I said when it comes to getting around on websites I am really bad.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[FrDavid96]

Given where?

The Book of Divine Worship does not have Anglican Eucharistic Prayers in it.

Where are these priests using distinctively Anglican versions of the Eucharistic canon approved by the Holy See? And what are these texts? Where might I find them?

Please note that I’m specifically talking about the Eucharistic canon–of course many other aspects of Anglican liturgy are fine from Rome’s perspective.

Edwin

I don’t know where these texts can be found (neither in printed form, nor online). I merely know that they exist because they are already in-use. There are already a small number of former Anglicans who are now Catholic priests celebrating Mass according to the Anglican tradition. I’m sure there are posters following this thread who can give more information, and indeed some links are already posted in this thread. I would give more detailed information if I had it, but I would suggest exploring the links already here.

 

[jordananglo]

I don’t know where these texts can be found (neither in printed form, nor online). … I’m sure there are posters following this thread who can give more information, and indeed some links are already posted in this thread.

As an Anglican planning on jumping onto the Ordinariate at the earliest possible moment, I will fill you in on what I know about the liturgical situation.

First, the Book of Divine Worship (BDW) is located here in pdf form:
atonementonline.com/bodw.php

It was created as a synthesis between the Episcopalian Book of Common Prayer (1979) together with the Roman Canon for the mass (Novus Ordo/Ordinary Form).

Now it has to be stressed that even the original Anglican Use group only saw the BDW as a `first attempt’ or a placeholder for something to come later. This is in part because it was produced as a compromise liturgy.

Its relevance to the entirely new situation created by Anglicanorum Coetibus is tenuous at best. For one thing, it is an American creation for an American situation. All the other countries have different prayerbooks, and most of the takers of the A.C. will not be the ones in love with the Prayerbook, but the Anglo-Catholics, who have at best a distant relationship with the Prayerbook because of its dubious theology. The situation calls for a new solution for a world-wide situation.

What is great about the (older) Prayerbooks is the use of hieratic English. It has layers of meaning and beauty that is well suited to a vernacular Mass. Listening to the rumor mill, word on the street is that the Ordinariate liturgy will be based on the English Missal (indeed, we hear from several sources that a group has been quietly pressed into service to get this going some time ago). The English Missal is a project that Anglo-Catholics took on themselves a century ago: they took the old Mass (Tridentine/ Extraordinary form) and translated it into English of a style similar to the prayerbook. Where Cranmer gave a faithful translation of the Mass, they took that (he was a brilliant linguist). When he inserted his own continental-inspired heresy, they `corrected’ it and translated the Latin original into English of a similar style. This Missal tradition is still active in many Anglo-Catholic churches around the world and was what the first AU groups were hoping for. To see how this works in practice, it can be seen here:
home.comcast.net/~acbfp/knottmissal.html

The observant reader can see how such a project fits very nicely with the liturgical vision of Pope Benedict XVI. Indeed, many people anticipate that the Anglican Ordinariate liturgy will be his first concrete step in the `reform of the reform’, attempting to return the Mass and Office to the vision of what the Vatican II council had in mind – a full bodied Catholic liturgy in the vernacular (with congregational hymns!).

More (speculative) articles about the liturgy can be seen here:
newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/05/future-liturgy-of-anglican-ordinariate_20.html
by Fr. Phillips

newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/05/future-liturgy-of-anglican-ordinariate_17.html
by Fr. Hunwicke

and an even more speculative article on the use of Sarum is here:
newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/05/future-liturgy-of-anglican-ordinariate_15.html
by Fr. Chadwick

Hope this helps.

 

[malphono]

Listening to the rumor mill, word on the street is that the Ordinariate liturgy will be based on the English Missal (indeed, we hear from several sources that a group has been quietly pressed into service to get this going some time ago). The English Missal is a project that Anglo-Catholics took on themselves a century ago: they took the old Mass (Tridentine/ Extraordinary form) and translated it into English of a style similar to the prayerbook. Where Cranmer gave a faithful translation of the Mass, they took that (he was a brilliant linguist). When he inserted his own continental-inspired heresy, they `corrected’ it and translated the Latin original into English of a similar style. This Missal tradition is still active in many Anglo-Catholic churches around the world and was what the first AU groups were hoping for.

Ah yes, the English Missal. If I recall correctly, it’s actually bi-lingual, and there were (are?) some clergy who take at least the Canon in Latin, in whole or in part.

even more speculative article on the use of Sarum is here

Whether it quite fits the bill for the purpose at hand is a question that I am not in a position to address, but as a liturgical purist who laments the unfortunate demise of the Sarum Rite (along with the Hereford, Gallican, etc), I would love to see it resuscitated, but not wholly in the vernacular. If it were done, though, I would hope that, as with the Roman Missal, the Sarum Missal would have its editio typica in Latin.

 

[jordananglo]

Ah yes, the English Missal. If I recall correctly, it’s actually bi-lingual, and there were (are?) some clergy who take at least the Canon in Latin, in whole or in part.

Indeed. In the bad old days' (as distinct from the bad new days’) when Anglo-Catholics were threatened with prison for `papist’ practices, they would say the Roman canon (in Latin) silently during the Prayerbook service.

For those of us entering the Ordinariate, I hope the clergy will have the option of saying parts of the Mass in Latin (as well as hieratic English) in the approved form, in addition to the entire TLM via Summorum Pontificum.

Whether it quite fits the bill for the purpose at hand is a question that I am not in a position to address, but as a liturgical purist who laments the unfortunate demise of the Sarum Rite (along with the Hereford, Gallican, etc), I would love to see it resuscitated, but not wholly in the vernacular. If it were done, though, I would hope that, as with the Roman Missal, the Sarum Missal would have its editio typica in Latin.

There has been a great deal of discussion about this on the Anglo-Catholic blog. Some (such as Fr. Hunwicke) firmly urge that " we should resist calls for ‘museum’ rites: Sarum, 1549 or the Non-jurors, and should stick to what is manifestly mainstream in the modern Catholic Church (the OF and EF) in forms which either are consistent with the new ICEL texts or which draw upon the linguistic and stylistic liturgical Patrimony of Anglican Catholicism during its glory days."

I think it would be very nice to have the Sarum Missal approved in Latin as a kind of Ordinariate Extraordinary Form that would be a sign of (re-)unity between the English Catholic recusants and the Prodigal Son Anglo-Catholics.

 

[FrDavid96]

…For those of us entering the Ordinariate, I hope the clergy will have the option of saying parts of the Mass in Latin (as well as hieratic English) in the approved form, in addition to the entire TLM via Summorum Pontificum.
…

That part at least does seem to be pretty clear in Anglicanorum Coetibus:
III. Without excluding liturgical celebrations according to the Roman Rite, the Ordinariate has the faculty to celebrate the Holy Eucharist and the other Sacraments, the Liturgy of the Hours and other liturgical celebrations according to the liturgical books proper to the Anglican tradition, which have been approved by the Holy See, so as to maintain the liturgical, spiritual and pastoral traditions of the Anglican Communion within the Catholic Church, as a precious gift nourishing the faith of the members of the Ordinariate and as a treasure to be shared.

“Without excluding litugical celebrations according to the Roman Rite…” seems pretty straightforward in saying that future Anglican-Catholic priests will be able to use either the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form, since both constitute the “Roman Rite.”

 

[ProVobis]

I think it would be very nice to have the Sarum Missal approved in Latin as a kind of Ordinariate Extraordinary Form that would be a sign of (re-)unity between the English Catholic recusants and the Prodigal Son Anglo-Catholics.

I agree with you. Otherwise this Anglo-Catholic Mass would have no appeal in non-English speaking countries and therefore couldn’t be rightfully be considered universal.

 

[BernadetteM]

I would like to ask for prayers for these Anglicans who are coming into the Church through the Ordinariate and also many who have already come.

There are groups of Anglicans who disagree with the decisions of the above Anglicans and have been attacking them on websites. When someone tries in charity to let them go in peace, they throw back accusations that it we who are the hateful ones. In some ways it appears these priests and laypeople show a very anti Catholic attitude.

These are just a few Anglicans, as most are lovely, kind and charitable, but it only takes a few to create more hurt for ones being led to the Church. As any convert knows it is not only a spiritual journey, but also an emotional one.

I don’t know any of the Anglicans entering the Church who have said unkind remarks and try to coerce others to join with them.

So I just ask for prayers from Catholics to bring peace to all involved, whether going to Rome or staying within an Anglican group.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[malphono]

There has been a great deal of discussion about this on the Anglo-Catholic blog. Some (such as Fr. Hunwicke) firmly urge that " we should resist calls for ‘museum’ rites: Sarum, 1549 or the Non-jurors, and should stick to what is manifestly mainstream in the modern Catholic Church (the OF and EF) in forms which either are consistent with the new ICEL texts or which draw upon the linguistic and stylistic liturgical Patrimony of Anglican Catholicism during its glory days."

Wasn’t there one of the English monarchs (Queen Mary (aka “Bloody Mary”)?) who attempted to restore the Sarum usage and ordered the books reprinted? Despite it being for naught anyway, (since the restoration technically violated the “200 year rule” of Trent due to the vile actions of her predecessors), wouldn’t that qualify as a basis for the “liturgical patrimony” the quote speaks of?

I think it would be very nice to have the Sarum Missal approved in Latin as a kind of Ordinariate Extraordinary Form that would be a sign of (re-)unity between the English Catholic recusants and the Prodigal Son Anglo-Catholics.

Yes, indeed it would. Since I’ve no direct association with the Anglican usage, I am, as I mentioned earlier, not in a position to address the matter directly, but from a strictly liturgical perspective I would love to see it done just that way. IMHO, the official resuscitation of an ancient and noble Rite would be a boon to the Church.

 

[cecilia97]

lol sorry i mean is Anglican church music really superior to the Roman?

I didn’t mean to use the word “superior” in a comparative sense. A better word might have been “exceptional” or “masterful”.

But, if you compare most (not all!) Catholic parishes in the US, which have all-volunteer, untrained choirs to our local AU parish which has a professional organist and professional and semi-professional choir members, some of who travel the world singing, educating at the local universities, and make their living at music, then yes, “superior” might be just the word. I’m friends with the cantors at my parish and it’s not rude or out of line for me to say they would croak if asked to sing Gibbons or Handel.

The EF churches in town have chant, but sometimes the voices are not professional-quality like they are at the local AU parish. That’s just the plain truth.

 

[cecilia97]

When the priest at Our Lady of Walsingham reitred he was replaced with another AU priest. When the Ordinariate is implemented there will be more priests than parishes from what I read and these priests will probably assist at Latin Rite parishes until there is a need for them at an AU parish.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Yep! I’m not a parishioner but I visit friends there. The parish, its people, and the priests are a blessing for Houston. …I don’t think he retired, though, he went back into the hospital chaplaincy.

 

[Sarabande]

lol sorry i mean is Anglican church music really superior to the Roman?

I’m not sure how it is everywhere else, but we have a few high church Anglican-Catholic (not Anglican Use Rite - we have in our city under the Episcopal diocese here parishes called Anglican Catholic, Anglican and Episcopal - I don’t understand all the differences.) churches in which they have often have sacred music composed for the Catholic liturgy. They often show on their signs outside of the church what music will be used for the Sunday’s worship. What I tend to see are masses by Palestrina, Victoria, etc, in addition to other motets written by Catholic composers for the Catholic mass, along with motets written by both Catholic and Protestant composers (Tallis, Byrd, etc.) They have also done the entire Faure Requiem mass, the Allegri “Miserere”, etc.

One of the Anglican churches has a reputation in the city as being “more Catholic than a Catholic parish” because of how they do the liturgy and the music (extremely reverent and mostly Catholic sacred repertoire). In our diocese, one of our Catholic parishes which is owned by a specific order, had a pastor who worked hard to get the music equal to this Anglican church by having a professional choir, top notch organist and music director and a very reverent and solemn liturgy. And I would say that he did a wonderful job achieving this. Unfortunately, the order didn’t like the idea of having “high brow” Catholic music and professionals at mass and removed this pastor. The music liturgy fell apart and became the stereotype of what many associate with this particular priestly order.

Anyway, I would assume that the Anglican Use parishes would use similar kind of music as an Anglican parish. So, I wouldn’t say that it’s superior to the Roman because a lot of what they used are from the Roman Rite, funny enough.

I know many Catholic musicians who used to always lament that you had to attend an Anglican and some high church, conservative Episcopal churches (my friend who is becoming an Episcopal priest tells me that more of the liberal parishes have gone away from their long musical traditions, adopting the guitar and other typically newer Catholic music at their services) to hear Catholic music.

In regards to the original OP, like others have said, there aren’t many Anglican Use parishes, so I don’t think tons of Catholic are interested or even aware of this particular rite. But I do know that those who are aware of it (mostly my friends and colleagues who are either musicians or lovers of music) are interested in because of the seeming solemnity of the mass AND the music.

 

[Chatter163]

actually the TAC in the US, Canada and Australia have applied for full communion. it is the Bishops of the said territories that have applied for full communion so they’re taking all their parishes with them. TAC is not part of the mainstream Anglican Communion, so none of those mainstream Anglican parishes are switching over. and i highly doubt it because most of those in the Anglican Communion have become liberal (women and gay priests, etc) that it would take a lot of them to accept all Catholic teachings. the TAC Bishops however has stated they accept everything in the CCC and are ready for full communion

the only issue will be the reordination of the priests, and the bishops who are married will no longer qualify to be bishops and would have to become priests, but given authority over the Anglican parishes and diocese as if they were Bishops in some matters (administrative but perhaps not doctrinal)

You either did not read the links that I posted earlier in this thread, or did not understand them. The bishops of only ONE member church of the TAC, the Anglican Church of America (ACA) requested that an ordinariate be established. And they specifically state in the Q&A:

**2. Does this mean ACA parishes will be going immediately to Rome? **

No. In fact, no one is “going to Rome.” Once a US ordinariate (the structure defined in the Apostolic Constitution) has been established, each of the ACA dioceses and its constituent parishes will decide whether or not they wish to join the ordinariate. Establishing the ordinariate (the “implementation” requested by the Bishops) is thus the next step in an ongoing process, with discernment at each step.

Hence, as I posted, it will be played out on a diocese-by-diocese and parish-by-parish basis. The “discernment” spoken of in the document is a nice way of saying that there will be major disagreements on the matter. The news media was absolutely irresponsible in making this clear.

Also, the ACA is only one part of the Traditional Anglican Communion; which is a federation independent Continuing Anglican Churches, each with its own bishops. The bishops of one one member church, the ACA, and not the entire TAC, made this request. And support for reception into the Catholic Church runs much higher amoing clergy than laity of this body.

 

[baltobetsy]

lol sorry i mean is Anglican church music really superior to the Roman?

I’ll tell you a bit about my experience. I’ve sung in an Episcopal church choir (as a non-parishioner employee) since 1988. I have also sung as a cantor (both paid and volunteer) at several Catholic parishes since the mid-70’s, doing Sunday Masses, weddings and funerals.

Admittedly, the Catholic parishes where I have sung have not been “mainstream” musically. The music directors were and are professionally trained organists and choirmasters who tend to use more traditional music. One of the parishes has a choir of men and boys that performs at a very high level. That parish, for a period beginning in the 70’s, had paid cantors and paid section leaders in the choir. The parish where I am now has a music director who recently graduated with a degree in liturgy and music from a prestigious university. The choir is about half professional. Much of their repertoire is similar to what we do at the Episcopal parish.

Needless to say, I’ve been spoiled in the Catholic parishes I’ve belonged to. When I visit other parishes, sometimes I just sit with my mouth open, thankful for what I have.

In the Episcopal parish, we have a *full-time *music director with a long resume of high-profile positions all around the country. When he retires, there will be a nationwide search for a replacement that will rival the search for a new rector. We have up to 8 professionals in the choir, two in each voice part serving as soloist/section leaders. Right now, we don’t have a full complement of professional singers, but if the right people came along, they would be hired. I’m the only professional alto at the moment, the other having retired after almost 25 years in the position. The other singers are volunteers, many of whom could very well serve in the professional positions but choose not to because of other obligations. A number are physicians - lots of doctors are high-level musicians - very interesting. We usually have 40 to 45 members in all.

Interestingly, the Episcopal parish tried out a contemporary music group of teenagers for a few years. They did not last, and now the teen singers are part of the regular choir and very happy there. There is a contemporary group now composed mainly of aging baby boomers, which is not very popular beyond its actual membership, according to parish surveys. There are about 10 of them. They sing the contemporary style service each week, and in the regular service once a month or so. They used to sing more often, until the survey results came out.

Our choir sings classical music from all periods. We do Palestrina, Tallis and Byrd, Bach, Mozart, Haydn & Handel, Mendelssohn & Brahms and other older composers. We do lots of English music - Elgar, Wood, Stanford, Britten, Howells, and more contemporary English works by Richard Shephard, Robert Lehman, Grayston Ives, John Rutter and others. Every year we do a “special music” presentation. Two years ago it was the Brahms Requiem with full orchestra. Last year, the Mozart Vespers. I think it’s to be Dvorak this year. We have a small group of singers who do Evensongs throughout the year. We just finished a six-year project of singing the Bach motets, one per year. This year, we’re going to bring them all out for a reprise.

So, to answer the question in the quote … ah, yes. At least in my experience.

Betsy