Why does Anglican-rite liturgy attract so many Catholics?

[Vico]

Thank You Father David! The closest one to me will be the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Orlando. theparish.org/

I’m curious why Catholics that were not Anglican are not eligible??? Thanks

Peace be with you!

-Delta1

A personal ordinariate, like personal parishes, have very specific definition of who are members (like Spanish or Polish, or Eastern Catholics without their own ordinary).

Decree of erection of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham

1. The Anglican faithful who wish to be received into full communion with the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate must manifest this desire in writing. There is to be a programme of catechetical formation for these faithful, lasting for a congruent time, and with content established by the Ordinary in agreement with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith so that the faithful are able to adhere fully to the doctrinal content of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and, therefore, make the profession of faith.
   theanglocatholic.com/2011/01/decree-of-erection/

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank You Father David! The closest one to me will be the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Orlando. theparish.org/

I’m curious why Catholics that were not Anglican are not eligible??? Thanks

Peace be with you!

-Delta1

I checked their website. That place is most certainly NOT a Catholic church. There is a real problem of non-Catholic places calling themselves by the word “Catholic” and this is a good example. Again, this is NOT in any way a Catholic parish.

While I certainly hold out hope that they will someday become a Catholic parish, from their own website, it does not look like this will be happening anytime in the near future. It might be a good thing to keep informed though.

Let me backup a little here.
The Anglican Catholic Ordinariate (think “nationwide diocese”) does not yet exist. Once it does exist, it will be up to the “ordinary” (that is, the bishop or priest who will be the head of the organization in much the same way that a local bishop is the head of the diocese) to establish parishes. All of those parishes will necessarily have a defined territory. It might be “all the Anglican Catholics in XYZ city” or even all of them in a certain state (or 2 states!). We won’t know until it happens. In your case, it might even be the entire state of Florida. There might be a parish in Miami, but only for the Miami area with none anywhere near Orlando. At the risk of being repetitive, until these parishes are actually established, no one can say where they will be, or what their territory will be. We just cannot predict the future.

At the present time, even without the Ordinariate, there are about 9 existing Anglican Catholic parishes (and some societies) in the US. All of them are part of the local dioceses. When the Ordinariate is established, (most likely) that they will all cease to be part of the diocese, and come under the jurisdiction of the Ordinariate.

If you were to say that you live 2 blocks from an existing Anglican Catholic parish, then it would be safe to say that you would be eligible to join it. But as I said earlier, that’s probably not the case or you wouldn’t be asking at all.

Doing an internet search for “Anglican Catholic” will unfortunately lead you to many sites which falsely claim to be Catholic.

I know someone reading this has a link to a list of the true Catholic parishes of the Anglican Use in the US. Please post it (again). Some of these are not “parishes” but communities still in full communion with the local bishop and the Church.

Meantime, here’s a link to one webpage I found that has at least a partial list of parishes and communities. anglicanuse.org/Links.htm

I don’t see any listed for Florida, but I have a vague memory that there might be one in the Miami area.

 

[BernadetteM]

I checked their website. That place is most certainly NOT a Catholic church. There is a real problem of non-Catholic places calling themselves by the word “Catholic” and this is a good example. Again, this is NOT in any way a Catholic parish.

While I certainly hold out hope that they will someday become a Catholic parish, from their own website, it does not look like this will be happening anytime in the near future. It might be a good thing to keep informed though.

Let me backup a little here.
The Anglican Catholic Ordinariate (think “nationwide diocese”) does not yet exist. Once it does exist, it will be up to the “ordinary” (that is, the bishop or priest who will be the head of the organization in much the same way that a local bishop is the head of the diocese) to establish parishes. All of those parishes will necessarily have a defined territory. It might be “all the Anglican Catholics in XYZ city” or even all of them in a certain state (or 2 states!). We won’t know until it happens. In your case, it might even be the entire state of Florida. There might be a parish in Miami, but only for the Miami area with none anywhere near Orlando. At the risk of being repetitive, until these parishes are actually established, no one can say where they will be, or what their territory will be. We just cannot predict the future.

At the present time, even without the Ordinariate, there are about 9 existing Anglican Catholic parishes (and some societies) in the US. All of them are part of the local dioceses. When the Ordinariate is established, (most likely) that they will all cease to be part of the diocese, and come under the jurisdiction of the Ordinariate.

If you were to say that you live 2 blocks from an existing Anglican Catholic parish, then it would be safe to say that you would be eligible to join it. But as I said earlier, that’s probably not the case or you wouldn’t be asking at all.

Doing an internet search for “Anglican Catholic” will unfortunately lead you to many sites which falsely claim to be Catholic.

I know someone reading this has a link to a list of the true Catholic parishes of the Anglican Use in the US. Please post it (again). Some of these are not “parishes” but communities still in full communion with the local bishop and the Church.

Meantime, here’s a link to one webpage I found that has at least a partial list of parishes and communities. anglicanuse.org/Links.htm

I don’t see any listed for Florida, but I have a vague memory that there might be one in the Miami area.

Incarnation has voted to join the Ordinariate, they are very involved in the move. The Catholic Diocese has asked them to hold the Interfaith event, which they agreed to do. They worked closely with the former Catholic Bishop. One of their members started a website for Anglicans coming into the Ordinariate.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Delta1]

I checked their website. That place is most certainly NOT a Catholic church. There is a real problem of non-Catholic places calling themselves by the word “Catholic” and this is a good example. Again, this is NOT in any way a Catholic parish.

I know they are not a Catholic Church. They are currently a member of the “Anglican Church in America”/Traditional Anglican Communion. I assumed they will become a Catholic parish in the future. I am also aware of another Anglican branch calling themselves “The Anglican Catholic Church” but I know they are not in communion with the Pope either.

Thank You for clearing up some of the confusion and thank you for the link.

-Delta1

 

[FrDavid96]

Incarnation has voted to join the Ordinariate, they are very involved in the move. The Catholic Diocese has asked them to hold the Interfaith event, which they agreed to do. They worked closely with the former Catholic Bishop. One of their members started a website for Anglicans coming into the Ordinariate.

God Bless

Bernadette

I’m happy to hear that!

From reading their webpage, at first, it didn’t look that way.

I went back again and revisited it. Yes, the community has voted to accept “accept the terms of [the constitution]” Here’s a more specific link adoremus.org/EcclesiaDeEucharistia.html#anchor566973

What threw me off at first was this page theparish.org/html/deus/Catholics.html

At the moment though, they still are not yet a Catholic community.

 

[FrDavid96]

I know they are not a Catholic Church. They are currently a member of the “Anglican Church in America”/Traditional Anglican Communion. I assumed they will become a Catholic parish in the future. I am also aware of another Anglican branch calling themselves “The Anglican Catholic Church” but I know they are not in communion with the Pope either.

Thank You for clearing up some of the confusion and thank you for the link.

-Delta1

By now, you’ve read BernadetteM’s update. They have voted to join the future Ordinariate. At the moment, the issue is just that: future ordinariate. Personally, I don’t have any doubt that the US will have an Anglican Catholic ordinariate soon, but we’re still in the “hurry up and wait” stage. For all I know, the ordinariate might be established while I’m writing this very post.
It does look promising though, so it’s not unrealistic to think that you might be able to join that future-Catholic parish. Since you’re obviously interested, keep an eye on things there.

I don’t know just how far you live from Orlando. You said that they are the “closest” but that could mean that the next nearest one is 3 hours away. There’s no way to predict what the future parish boundaries might be, so unless you live very near them, no one can say at this point whether or not you’ll be eligible to join that particular future-parish. You will be eligible to join the ordinariate, because it’s safe to say that when this does happen, it will apply to the entire US (that much at least we can “predict”).

I do hope and pray (as I know many other posters likewise) that we will have at least one ordinariate for the US sometime very soon.

 

[FrDavid96]

Oops!

I posted the wrong link earlier!

The correct link is here
theparish.org/html/cathedral/ordinariate.html

Where the community in Orlando voted to accept the Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus

sorry 'bout that!

 

[Aunt_Raven]

Many current parishioners of Anglican Use parishes were / are cradle Catholics. :yup: Many of these had been lapsed Catholics, before the beautiful and theologically profound AU liturgy drew them back to the Church. Many others (Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, agnostic) “wandered in off the street”, fell in love with the AU liturgy and stayed to became Catholics.:tiphat:

So–When the AU is eventually subsumed into the American Ordinariate, who’s gonna tell the cradle Catholics now at AU parishes to leave :tsktsk: ??? Bishops gonna install bouncers at the doors of Ordinariate Churches, :hey_bud: “carding” worshipers, to verify they were formerly Anglican???

 

[ConstantineTG]

Many current parishioners of Anglican Use parishes were / are cradle Catholics. :yup: Many of these had been lapsed Catholics, before the beautiful and theologically profound AU liturgy drew them back to the Church. Many others (Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, agnostic) “wandered in off the street”, fell in love with the AU liturgy and stayed to became Catholics.:tiphat:

So–When the AU is eventually subsumed into the American Ordinariate, who’s gonna tell the cradle Catholics now at AU parishes to leave :tsktsk: ??? Bishops gonna install bouncers at the doors of Ordinariate Churches, :hey_bud: “carding” worshipers, to verify they were formerly Anglican???

Actually, any Catholic is free to attend any other Catholic Liturgy and receive Communion and have their Confession heard in any Catholic Rite. This includes Eastern Rites. I myself am a cradle Roman Catholic who recently moved to a Ukrainian Catholic parish (Byzantine Rite). So its not like the diocese or any Bishop will prevent Roman Catholics from going to AU parishes or even become registered parishioners in a sense that they are regular goers and supporters of that parish. They can only prevent them from moving to be “canonically Anglican Catholic”. I used quotes because the Anglican community is part of the Roman Catholic Church and thus canonically enrolled Roman Catholics, but it seems the Church desires for there to be distinction between Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics.

 

[Vico]

Actually, any Catholic is free to attend any other Catholic Liturgy and receive Communion and have their Confession heard in any Catholic Rite. …

but it seems the Church desires for there to be distinction between Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics.

I agree with you that there would be no change in the parish attendance.

You said “the Church desires for there to be distinction between Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics”, which I believe is so that they can continue with their liturgy and devotional customs, similar to the Ambrosian rite in Milan Italy, and the Mozarabic rite in Toledo, and the Braga rite in Braga Portugal.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I agree with you that there would be no change in the parish attendance.

You said “the Church desires for there to be distinction between Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics”, which I believe is so that they can continue with their liturgy and devotional customs, similar to the Ambrosian rite in Milan Italy, and the Mozarabic rite in Toledo, and the Braga rite in Braga Portugal.

Perhaps so. Let me clarify that I said it “seems” that way, just an observation. But my guess is that the Church does want people to keep some sort of liturgical identity so that every tradition may be preserved and carried on rather than have a mish-mash of traditions as people move from one tradition to another.

 

[Vico]

Perhaps so. Let me clarify that I said it “seems” that way, just an observation. But my guess is that the Church does want people to keep some sort of liturgical identity so that every tradition may be preserved and carried on rather than have a mish-mash of traditions as people move from one tradition to another.

There was an ancient standardization, but in latter times one standard liturgy, with exceptions for those before 1370 came from Pope St. Pius V, July 14, 1570, Quo Primum, regarding the Ritual Romanum:

“Let all everywhere adopt and observe what has been handed down by the Holy Roman Church, the Mother and Teacher of the other churches, and let Masses not be sung or read according to any other formula than that of this Missal published by Us.”
…
“This new rite alone is to be used unless approval of the practice of saying Mass differently was given at the very time of the institution and confirmation of the church by Apostolic See at least 200 years ago, or unless there has prevailed a custom of a similar kind which has been continuously followed for a period of not less than 200 years, …”

the-pope.com/p5quopri.html

 

[zalzankavol]

When I was in seminary in the 1990’s, there were 3 or 4 guys (out of around 80) who used to like to go the Anglican church, not for communion but just to attend.

 

[Catholic87]

Because it is what the Novus Ordo should be…

 

[ConstantineTG]

There was an ancient standardization, but in latter times one standard liturgy, with exceptions for those before 1370 came from Pope St. Pius V, July 14, 1570, Quo Primum, regarding the Ritual Romanum:

“Let all everywhere adopt and observe what has been handed down by the Holy Roman Church, the Mother and Teacher of the other churches, and let Masses not be sung or read according to any other formula than that of this Missal published by Us.”
…
“This new rite alone is to be used unless approval of the practice of saying Mass differently was given at the very time of the institution and confirmation of the church by Apostolic See at least 200 years ago, or unless there has prevailed a custom of a similar kind which has been continuously followed for a period of not less than 200 years, …”

the-pope.com/p5quopri.html

I think the Church has learned to show respect to other traditions. By allowing the Anglicans to keep theirs, they are showing the Orthodox that they will be allowed to keep theirs too. I’m sure the Orthodox are looking at this with very keen interest because this as well as the Eastern Catholics will show them what the Pope is willing to do to achieve unity.

 

[Vico]

I think the Church has learned to show respect to other traditions. By allowing the Anglicans to keep theirs, they are showing the Orthodox that they will be allowed to keep theirs too. I’m sure the Orthodox are looking at this with very keen interest because this as well as the Eastern Catholics will show them what the Pope is willing to do to achieve unity.

Like the 20 eastern Churches that re-united since the Chaldeans in 1552.

 

[ProVobis]

Because it is what the Novus Ordo should be…

The Anglican Use actually incorporates much of the ICEL language (“and also with you,” “for you and for all,”) however, as does today’s Anglican Church, for that matter.

As for “so” many Catholics, I’m not too sure. English is spoken as a first or second language in less than 10% of the world’s population and the percentage of English-speaking people who are Catholic is very low too, compared with Polish-speaking or Spanish-speaking, for example. And of those who are Catholic, only 20-25% attend Mass regularly.

 

[zalzankavol]

From an Articel in the Times (London I assume)​

Saturday October 06th 2007

Ruth Gledhill writes in The Times October 6th 2007

The Common Cause Partnership , whose leaders claim to represent 600 congregations and 100,000 people, will meet in December to plan how to create the 39th province of the 77 million member Anglican Communion.

Whenever that 77 million figure is quoted, it is worth recalling that 25 million of those are English Anglicans, the number of baptised. The churchgoing figures tell a different story. Fewer than a million go each Sunday. This puts the Anglican Communion closer to 52 million. The Episcopal Church itself is facing its own issues of falling clergy numbers, unviable parishes and costly litigation aimed at preventing the fleeing conservatives from taking their properties with them. The latest parish to defect into the care of the province of Uganda is one of Georgia’s oldest churches, Christ Church in Savannah, established 50 years before The Episcopal Church, in 1733, and the church where Methodism’s founder, John Wesley, was rector. The irony of this is not lost on commentators. While the Episcopal Church claims 2.4 million members, an analysis of the figures by conservative blogger David Virtue has established that fewer than 800,000 attend weekly services. Virtue claims that as many as 700 “orthodox Episcopalians” are leaving every week. Virtue has based his figures on graphs of attendance and figures on the Church’s own website. But even if the true figure is not that high, it nontheless seems that the church is haemorrhaging."​

I don’t see any evidence that Catholics are flocking to Anglican churches. They can’t get their own people to go, let alone draw in more.

 

[BernadetteM]

I am unclear if you meant the AU Mass uses “and also with you” or not. It does not, it uses “and with thy spirit”. I might have read your post incorrectly.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[benedictgal]

I am unclear if you meant the AU Mass uses “and also with you” or not. It does not, it uses “and with thy spirit”. I might have read your post incorrectly.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

I was at Our Lady of Walsingham this afternoon (Houston). Yes, AU has “And with thy spirit.” God willing, I plan to be there later on today for their Solemn Mass. I had accompanied a priest who was attending the same conference as I was and he kindly lent me his guidebook (so to speak). After the AU (we got there late), we went to the small chapel for the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice in the Extraordinary Form.

I must say, there is a lot of kneeling in the AU. We knelt through most, if not all, of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.