Why does Catholic school cost so much?

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It’s cost prohibitive here.
It’s for the very wealthy and the very poor. Middle class qualifies for zero assistance.
 
It’s cost prohibitive here.
It’s for the very wealthy and the very poor. Middle class qualifies for zero assistance.
Unfortunately, that is the way it is for many schools that I’ve looked into. Middle class doesn’t qualify for the financial aid, and they can’t afford it without financial aid.
 
We are not to the school age yet but our kids can go to the k-8 parish school if we tithe (10%) to the church. There is still a registration fee and book fee, but other than that there is no tuition. Then the high school tuition is about $6,000 per year per child. 🙂 I didnt realize how lucky we are to have a parish to commit to a school like that!
 
Sorry, I have been very closely involved in managing Catholic school financial matters, and I think I can blame the Church to a certain extent. I know that almost NO one in the catholic school system is even dreaming along the lines of widespread/universally available Catholic education. I know that most diocese and parishes believe that Catholic school funding should be primarily via tuition. They do not have a desire to donations to churches go towards the school. I could go on and on with detailed examples.

Oh, I understand the problem with teacher’s salaries, and I know it is difficult. But its a chicken and the egg problem. If you don’t give lots of kids a good Catholic education, you ain’t going to have many vocations.

It is a complicated issue, but that doesn’t really matter. The Church has a responsibility to provide Catholic schools to parents. There is no other way canon 798 can be fulfilled by parents. If you are going to tell parents they have to send their kids to Catholic schools (a canon I agree with, BTW), you have to provide the school.
Very good points.

Our diocese is suffering from decades of neglect toward the parish schools. Our prior Bishop did not feel that parochial school tuition was a good way for Catholics to use their money. He encouraged middle class Catholics to send their kids to the public schools so they could use the money saved for other social issues. The only schools that were nurtured were the inner city schools. Now we have a new Archbishop (Cardinal) who is much more focused on Catholic education for all Catholic children but we have a lot to undo.
 
We are not to the school age yet but our kids can go to the k-8 parish school if we tithe (10%) to the church. There is still a registration fee and book fee, but other than that there is no tuition. Then the high school tuition is about $6,000 per year per child. 🙂 I didnt realize how lucky we are to have a parish to commit to a school like that!
That is a wonderful situation you have, at least until high school. Considery yourself very lucky. I assume someone in Wichita,KA?
 
In the UK it’s free to send your children to either Catholic or Church of England schools. All the running costs and 90% of the Capital costs are met by the government. There are a few private schools that charge fees but these are the minority.
Paid by your taxes does not equal “free.”

:rolleyes:
 
Here, in Canada, the Catholic schools are publicly funded and managed so they are ‘free’ (paid for with my taxes) just like the public schools are. They are also very watered down and constantly in battle with the government because the government tries to overstep the boundaries of religious freedom. Right now they are battling it out because the local government wants to enforce the mandatory establishment of clubs for homosexuals in all the Catholic schools, to normalize homosexual behavior and encourage high schoolers to ‘come out’.

Plus, academically they are not my cup of tea. So that’s out.

There are a few privately run, authentic Catholic schools that educate with a classically based liberal arts curriculum, but the cost AND distance to the closest one makes that prohibitive for us.

So… we homeschool.

The aforementioned Canon says that parents have an obligation to send their children to a school where they will receive a Catholic education:
Can. 798 Parents are to entrust their children to those schools which provide a Catholic education. If they are unable to do this, they are obliged to take care that suitable Catholic education is provided for their children outside the schools
That does not necessarily mean that parents have a moral obligation to send their children to a parochial school. It means that parents have an obligation to make sure their children are receiving an education that augments the teachings of the Church and educates them according to those teachings. They are not to send their children to a school that would detract from or undermine the Faith. That goes well beyond the curriculum taught. That undermining factor could come from individual teachers, the atmosphere of the school, the type of culture that is promoted at those schools, classmates, etc.

I think that truly authentic Catholic schools are very difficult to find. There are some out there, I know, and blessed are the families who have found them and can also afford them.

We can’t.
 
Having school vouchers would solve a lot of these problems. There would be no duplicating payments - paying state/local taxes AND paying for parochial or private school. The public schools would have to compete for their customers’ education dollars.
 
Having school vouchers would solve a lot of these problems. There would be no duplicating payments - paying state/local taxes AND paying for parochial or private school. The public schools would have to compete for their customers’ education dollars.
Oh, my goodness. What a novel idea:) The teacher’s union will never stand for that, probably because many of them could not compete. BTW, I agree with you.
 
Oh, my goodness. What a novel idea:) The teacher’s union will never stand for that, probably because many of them could not compete. BTW, I agree with you.
Correct. The teachers’ unions have successfully blocked every effort to give school vouchers to taxpayers. Think of it! The people who don’t have children would get money back! The public schools would be decimated, and would have to re-configure their entire structures! Even people who couldn’t get into the suddenly filled and waitlisted private schools could use the money to home school their children!

I am completely against any union of taxpayer-funded city, state or federal employees. It’s outrageous that people whose salaries are paid through my tax dollars can lobby against taxpayers’ wishes.
 
Easter Joy mixes up two points, one of which is valid, one isn’t.

Public schools must accept kids from their district, even extremely expensive special ed kids and behavioral problems. IMO, the special ed cost is real and needs to be accounted for in budgets. But they are a proportionately small number.

The behavioral problem kids are a self inflicted wound in public schooling. They insist on keeping them in the general school population and unavoidably in the process reduce the class learning potential. If a teacher spends most of her time as a disciplinarian, she can’t teach. Public school leadership refuses to face up to that fact. They could do a LOT better if they segregated the total brats out of the common populace and put them into a severly tough love environment. But that makes parents angry, and we can’t have that.

In my experience, public school priorities are this: 1. Keep teachers union happy. 2. Keep parents groups happy. 3. Educate kids with remaining resources.

The catholic schools I have interacted with are a bit different: 1. Keep pastor happy. 2. Educate kids. 3. Keep parents happy. 4. Keep teachers happy.

The difference in priorities shows in the results. (especially is the pastor is a GOOD one!)

Proposed voucher programs SHOULD take this into account. If the catholic schools don’t have the capacity for special ed and aren’t required to take any applicants, that is a factor in how much the voucher should be. But you can’t tell me that the public school district doesn’t spend at LEAST $7,000 per normal, happy, well adjusted kid per year. I’d be happy with a voucher of HALF that much, thanks. Then everybody wins: Parents have choices, public schools have fewer kids to educate and more funding per student to spend, kids can be placed in a school environment in which they thrive (instead of being placed merely by geography). Only the teacher’s union loses, which is why vouchers continue to be shot down.
 
Agreed. That’s why the college rate is obscene.
It doesn’t take a PhD to teach someone to read. Many of my classmates who got PhDs were working less and making more their first year out of graduate school than our public small-college professors did as full professors. It was not a difference of “if you can’t do it, teach it”, either.
Easter Joy mixes up two points, one of which is valid, one isn’t.

Public schools must accept kids from their district, even extremely expensive special ed kids and behavioral problems. IMO, the special ed cost is real and needs to be accounted for in budgets. But they are a proportionately small number.

The behavioral problem kids are a self inflicted wound in public schooling. They insist on keeping them in the general school population and unavoidably in the process reduce the class learning potential. If a teacher spends most of her time as a disciplinarian, she can’t teach. Public school leadership refuses to face up to that fact. They could do a LOT better if they segregated the total brats out of the common populace and put them into a severly tough love environment. But that makes parents angry, and we can’t have that.

In my experience, public school priorities are this: 1. Keep teachers union happy. 2. Keep parents groups happy. 3. Educate kids with remaining resources.

The catholic schools I have interacted with are a bit different: 1. Keep pastor happy. 2. Educate kids. 3. Keep parents happy. 4. Keep teachers happy.

The difference in priorities shows in the results. (especially is the pastor is a GOOD one!)

Proposed voucher programs SHOULD take this into account. If the catholic schools don’t have the capacity for special ed and aren’t required to take any applicants, that is a factor in how much the voucher should be. But you can’t tell me that the public school district doesn’t spend at LEAST $7,000 per normal, happy, well adjusted kid per year. I’d be happy with a voucher of HALF that much, thanks. Then everybody wins: Parents have choices, public schools have fewer kids to educate and more funding per student to spend, kids can be placed in a school environment in which they thrive (instead of being placed merely by geography). Only the teacher’s union loses, which is why vouchers continue to be shot down.
Every school has to keep the parents satisfied, and in the long run that is 99% of the difference between any one school and another, IMHO. This is why (also IMHO) public schools fight vouchers so much. It isn’t just that the program syphons off money. It takes their best parents, too…the students from whom you can achieve the most with the least amount of money.

Oh, well. Parents have to look out for their kids. It is the lazy parents who ought to vote against school vouchers, because it is their schools that suffer from them…and I think it is the “it’s your job to educate my kid” parents who do just that.
 
Paid by your taxes does not equal “free.”

:rolleyes:
Very True, but it does mean a greater degree of equality. I can apply to send my kid to the local school. the local Christian (CofE) school, or the local Catholic school. In many areas there are also muslim, jewish and seikh schools

All people have the right to apply to send their kids to a faith school, and most faith schools have a minumum quota of non catholics who they accept.

Most catholic schools (and other faith schools)have better results than the pure state run counterparts - and that in a system where they are not permitted to select based on accedemic capability, or socio-economic status (beyond based on geographical location - they will have a “catchment area”). Where there are too many applicants they must use a lotery system to determin who gets places based on a range of permited priorities and quotas. (e.g. it’s normal for a younger sibling to get priority rather than force a family to bring kids to multiple different schools unnecessarily).

Our current government has introduced new legislation permitting a wider range of new schools to apply for state funding.

I believe it is quite right and proper that the State should be involved in paying for education - the family is the basic unit of society. The education of children is the most important investment in the future there is for both the individual family and for the wider society.
It is also quite right that parents should have choice in how that education is delivered - in keeping with their faith or other beliefs. - Therefore state funding of a mixture of secular, faith and special interest / needs schools is quite appropriate.

The socialist agenda of a homogeneous education system which is driven by the currently fashionable ideas of political correctness truly makes my skin crawl.

Another point: if you don’t like how your local catholic school is run then get involved in the PTA / Board of governors. This side of the Atlantic most schools have plenty of vacancies for interested parents to get involved in the schools at a directorial / governance level.
 
It doesn’t take a PhD to teach someone to read. Many of my classmates who got PhDs were working less and making more their first year out of graduate school than our public small-college professors did as full professors. It was not a difference of “if you can’t do it, teach it”, either.
.
Many of the core classes in colleges are taught by graduate assistants - the students do not even get a professor for their tuition. Colleges love 200 student auditoriums for courses like Earth Science, College Algebra, and English Literature. They also love students that will major in Liberal Arts, and other “soft” degrees. Years alter in when many students drop out or graduate they owe thousands in student loans with very little in the way of quality education to show for it.
 
Easter Joy mixes up two points, one of which is valid, one isn’t.

Public schools must accept kids from their district, even extremely expensive special ed kids and behavioral problems. IMO, the special ed cost is real and needs to be accounted for in budgets. But they are a proportionately small number.

The behavioral problem kids are a self inflicted wound in public schooling. They insist on keeping them in the general school population and unavoidably in the process reduce the class learning potential. If a teacher spends most of her time as a disciplinarian, she can’t teach. Public school leadership refuses to face up to that fact. They could do a LOT better if they segregated the total brats out of the common populace and put them into a severly tough love environment. But that makes parents angry, and we can’t have that.

In my experience, public school priorities are this: 1. Keep teachers union happy. 2. Keep parents groups happy. 3. Educate kids with remaining resources.

The catholic schools I have interacted with are a bit different: 1. Keep pastor happy. 2. Educate kids. 3. Keep parents happy. 4. Keep teachers happy.

The difference in priorities shows in the results. (especially is the pastor is a GOOD one!)

Proposed voucher programs SHOULD take this into account. If the catholic schools don’t have the capacity for special ed and aren’t required to take any applicants, that is a factor in how much the voucher should be. But you can’t tell me that the public school district doesn’t spend at LEAST $7,000 per normal, happy, well adjusted kid per year. I’d be happy with a voucher of HALF that much, thanks. Then everybody wins: Parents have choices, public schools have fewer kids to educate and more funding per student to spend, kids can be placed in a school environment in which they thrive (instead of being placed merely by geography). Only the teacher’s union loses, which is why vouchers continue to be shot down.
I know a lot of pastors who only wish that “keeping the pastor happy” were that high on their parish school’s priority list! 😃 Certainly the parents don’t see it that way. Parish schools do owe a lot to heroic pastors who back up and guide principals and school boards in a way without a parallel in public schools!

Our local Catholic grade school charges about $5,000 per kid, but the real cost is closer to $7,000. Not only are there no special needs kids, there are also no buses and no fuel costs, etc. The local private school for the hearing-impaired charges roughly $20,000 to school districts who send their hearing-impaired kids there (because it is cheaper than having a program of their own), while the actual cost is closer to $27,000 (not including the bus, which is provided by the public schools). That is because the school charges school districts and parents with the means to pay the same thing. (Not all the local school districts will send kids to this school and some of the kids have typical hearing but come for the enhanced language program, which is why some parents pay out of their own pockets.)

IOW, private schools do a lot of fundraising to keep their tuition down. When comparing public and private, the actual costs and what actually has to be purchased have to be compared. You can’t just compare tuition to what the taxpayers are charged.
 
Many of the core classes in colleges are taught by graduate assistants - the students do not even get a professor for their tuition. Colleges love 200 student auditoriums for courses like Earth Science, College Algebra, and English Literature. They also love students that will major in Liberal Arts, and other “soft” degrees. Years alter in when many students drop out or graduate they owe thousands in student loans with very little in the way of quality education to show for it.
OK, but the students who know how to take advantage of the huge universities with the faculty in the National Academy of Science can do real research in real research laboratories with world-class science, and be on their way to becoming world-class scientists themselves. I know because I’ve seen it happen.

Other students need to choose their institutions a bit more carefully. I went to a small public college, while my high school classmates went to the big one. At the end of our first year, my old classmates were waiting in lines 30 deep to see their professors for a few minutes of office hours. My professors knew me by my first name, even the English professor. I’m probably unusually outgoing, but by the end of our second year, they knew all their own majors by their first name, and quite a few of the students in related majors who took their courses.

Having said that, I taught as a graduate student in a university with first-year basic classes of about 600. The professors still met one-on-one with the undergraduates who had the inititative to go and see them. For those students, there was no place on the planet that could provide the same opportunites as that huge place. It just depends on the student.

You can’t just fork over the money to some place with a beautiful campus or a very old sign out front and say “educate me”. You have to go into it like an adult, and look for your opportunities, and make the most of them. If you don’t want to do that, or if you’re too busy enjoying that your parents can’t force you to perform academically any more when there is fun to be had, you’re not going to get the same “quality education to show for it”, no matter where you go…and that includes if you stay out in the real world and get a job. Education is a “drawing out” of yourself. If you expect the world to come to you, you’re going to be disappointed. No educational reform will ever change that basic fact, and we can’t teach our kids that too young.
 
Having school vouchers would solve a lot of these problems. There would be no duplicating payments - paying state/local taxes AND paying for parochial or private school. The public schools would have to compete for their customers’ education dollars.
For the record, I do agree that school vouchers would solve a lot of problems. On this issue, I tend to be in favor of the use of school vouchers.

However, there are some problems that I can foresee.

First of all, if you can choose where your tax dollars go for schooling, what about for other things? Say you do not like the way the government is defending our nation, i.e. through the Armed Forces. Should the government give you a voucher so you can built yourself an underground bunker and built weapons and ammunition? The point is: when you turn the use of taxes into something that is paid for on a “per-use” basis, you turn the government essentially into a massive consumer corporation, and one that would be terrible at providing any services, at that. This is completely antithetical to the very idea of taxation, which is to tax people to provide services for everyone.

Secondly, if the government can essentially pay for your private school education, what is to stop them from demanding the private school teach students a certain way, or teach certain things? In the case of the voucher program, the government is essentially subsidizing your private education. And as we all know, when the government subsidizes something, it has incredible control over those that use its funds (unless you’re the oil companies, of course). As a poster has said, in Canada, the government pays for private education, and they are having issues with the government insisting they allow homosexual awareness clubs in Catholic schools. And even in the U.S., if you remember the situation with the Catholic adoption service (in Kansas I believe), where they were forced to shut down because the state refused to fund them because they did not provide adoption services to homosexual couples.

Perhaps all my points are silly or easily answerable. If they are, let me know.
 
OK, but the students who know how to take advantage of the huge universities with the faculty in the National Academy of Science can do real research in real research laboratories with world-class science, and be on their way to becoming world-class scientists themselves. I know because I’ve seen it happen.

Other students need to choose their institutions a bit more carefully. I went to a small public college, while my high school classmates went to the big one. At the end of our first year, my old classmates were waiting in lines 30 deep to see their professors for a few minutes of office hours. My professors knew me by my first name, even the English professor. I’m probably unusually outgoing, but by the end of our second year, they knew all their own majors by their first name, and quite a few of the students in related majors who took their courses.

Having said that, I taught as a graduate student in a university with first-year basic classes of about 600. The professors still met one-on-one with the undergraduates who had the inititative to go and see them. For those students, there was no place on the planet that could provide the same opportunites as that huge place. It just depends on the student.

You can’t just fork over the money to some place with a beautiful campus or a very old sign out front and say “educate me”. You have to go into it like an adult, and look for your opportunities, and make the most of them. If you don’t want to do that, or if you’re too busy enjoying that your parents can’t force you to perform academically any more when there is fun to be had, you’re not going to get the same “quality education to show for it”, no matter where you go…and that includes if you stay out in the real world and get a job. Education is a “drawing out” of yourself. If you expect the world to come to you, you’re going to be disappointed. No educational reform will ever change that basic fact, and we can’t teach our kids that too young.
Totally agree with you on that one. I currently attend a small public school, and I just find it so much more enjoyable. I passed up an (almost) full ride at our state’s large public university to come here, and I have to say, I made the right choice. I pretty much know all of the professors in my school (school of engineering, that is), and many of them know me by my first name. All the courses are usually under 30 students (big core classes like Chemistry usually have many more, but nowhere near 100 or 200 like large state universities). I can see my professor almost anytime during their office hours and know that I usually won’t have to wait 2 hours to see them. I don’t feel like a number.

Yes, perhaps I don’t get to work in a huge sophisticated research lab with tons of grants and money flowing out the wazoo. But there’s something to be said when you know the machine shop technician by name, as well as the woman that runs the small lunch cart in the building (for when I just can’t get a real lunch. You know us engineers :D)

In the end, it all comes down to this: You get out of it what you put into it. Output = (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
… This is why (also IMHO) public schools fight vouchers so much. It isn’t just that the program syphons off money. It takes their best parents, too…the students from whom you can achieve the most with the least amount of money.

Oh, well. Parents have to look out for their kids. It is the lazy parents who ought to vote against school vouchers, because it is their schools that suffer from them…and I think it is the “it’s your job to educate my kid” parents who do just that.
But this is a largely self inflicted wound. Public schools have taken the cowardly position of leaving behavioral problem kids mainstreamed in regular classes which alters the culture of the classroom and drags the entire class performance down. If the administrations would have the guts to call a spade a spade and tell the parents of bratty kids that their kids must remain in the ‘behavioral’ program until/unless they shape up, then the regular classes would vastly increase in performance. But nobody is willing to do that, so the class bully holds everybody else back. Been there, seen it myself and nobody is going to tell me it isn’t real.
 
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