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thelovelyone
Guest
Like people doing immoral things, etc.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
Would you rather not be free? You and I are both sinners.
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Mrchatsworth
Guest
Sometimes He doesn’t let them be free. Sometimes there are natural consequences for certain sins.
Be thankful you are without sin.Like people doing immoral things, etc.
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Abrosz
Guest
No, I would rather take away the freedom of psychopaths and sociopaths to commit their acts.Would you rather not be free? You and I are both sinners.
blackforest
Well-known member
Think of it this way: Would you want somebody loving you because they want to and choose to or because they’re an automaton?
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Abrosz
Guest
Incorrect dichotomy. Would you rather have somebody who is able to choose between several good options, rather than the one who can inflict mayhem and suffering in the name of “freedom”.Think of it this way: Would you want somebody loving you because they want to and choose to or because they’re an automaton?
Besides, “love” is not volitional. Think about a young child who loves you, even though she is unable to hurt you.
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Kramgen
Guest
Vice is its own punishment, virtue its own reward. We get to chose what we want. We are not God’s puppets.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
‘Who made answer and said to them: He that soweth the good seed, is the Son of man. And the field, is the world. And the good seed are the children of the kingdom. And the cockle, are the children of the wicked one. And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels.Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire: so shall it be at the end of the world.’ - Matt 13: 37-41
So it is the will of God that good and evil coexist in this world.
So it is the will of God that good and evil coexist in this world.
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christismylord
Guest
We have free will in this life, and at the end His own will be separated from the wicked. We will certainly have consequences for our choices.
Matthew 25:31-46 The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdomprepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
(I think this summarized the topic…actions have consequences and we are free to choose now. By His grace He calls us, His Holy Spirit draws us to Him, and He gives us the grace to come to Him. He stands at the door and knocks…will you let Him in?)
Matthew 25:31-46 The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdomprepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
(I think this summarized the topic…actions have consequences and we are free to choose now. By His grace He calls us, His Holy Spirit draws us to Him, and He gives us the grace to come to Him. He stands at the door and knocks…will you let Him in?)
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whatistrue
Guest
Then I can only say that I am glad it is not your decision. If we are not free to choose evil, then we are also not free to choose good.No, I would rather take away the freedom of psychopaths and sociopaths to commit their acts.
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Abrosz
Guest
“Doing” good is much more important than “choosing” good. A toddler is not free to “choose” good, it is her nature to be love.Then I can only say that I am glad it is not your decision. If we are not free to choose evil, then we are also not free to choose good.
And, of course the Virgin Mary was supposed to be without inclination to do evil.
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whatistrue
Guest
How do you “do” good unless you “choose” to do so? Just as sin requires consent, so does good.“Doing” good is much more important than “choosing” good
How many toddlers do you know? They are among the most savage of creatures unless and until they are civilized by their parents (or others if necessary).A toddler is not free to “choose” good, it is her nature to be love.
I don’t remember hearing about this - got a reference? Without Original Sin, yes, but still quite capable of choosing to sin, even though she never did.the Virgin Mary was supposed to be without inclination to do evil
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Abrosz
Guest
Because it is your nature. “Sin” does not even cross your mind.How do you “do” good unless you “choose” to do so? Just as sin requires consent, so does good.
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whatistrue
Guest
Then you are denying free will. But God gave us free will.Because it is your nature . “Sin” does not even cross your mind.
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Vico
Guest
Because of the necessity of free will such that charity can be expressed and one can therefore become a partaker of the divine nature.Like people doing immoral things, etc.
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Abrosz
Guest
No. Not denying, limiting the actions, maybe. Free will is not contingent upon being able to rape, kill and do other kinds of mayhem. It is sufficient to be able to choose from all kinds of good actions.Then you are denying free will. But God gave us free will.
But that is not a problem. The physical reality already limits what we can perform. There would be just some minor added limitation.
If you would like to argue for the ability to rape or murder, you would need to show that these activities are preferable on their own. That it is better to rape than not to rape.
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whatistrue
Guest
Actually, it is. If we are not free to choose evil, we are not free to choose.Free will is not contingent upon being able to rape, kill and do other kinds of mayhem.
No, I wouldn’t. It is sufficient to show that God included the ability to choose to sin when He gave us free will. If He hadn’t, then it wouldn’t be free. I am in no way saying that doing evil is anything but, well, evil. But the discussion is about free will and the ability to choose sin over good.If you would like to argue for the ability to rape or murder, you would need to show that these activities are preferable on their own . That it is better to rape than not to rape.
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Abrosz
Guest
If you are able to choose chocolate ice-cream over vanilla, then you have free will. But I already explained this to you.Actually, it is. If we are not free to choose evil, we are not free to choose.
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whatistrue
Guest
Really? When? And what does selecting an ice cream flavor have to do with good and evil?But I already explained this to you.
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