Why does God create those humans that He knows will end up in Hell?

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I am having trouble reconciling a few concepts as they pertain to God’s creation and free will. I’d appreciate if somebody could help to clarify this for me:
  • I understand that God created us in His own image, a key attribute of which was granting us free will.
  • I understand that God created us because He loves us, and wishes that we will seek out communion with Him. He wants us to one day be with Him in heaven.
  • I understand that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.
  • I understand that God transcends time.
So, given all of that… how do you make sense of my question in the subject line? At the time He creates that person, God would be able to foresee all of the choices that he/she would make in their lifetime. To maintain the promise of free will, He would not interfere and would allow him/her to make those choices.

Is that person then doomed to go to Hell? Why would God create him/her if that is what will end up to him/her?

Please help me to understand this mystery.

Thank you and God bless you.
 
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discerning:
Why would God create him/her if that is what will end up to him/her?
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Well, a couple of points come to mind. First, even though a person may do evil and be ultimately doomed to hell, that person may yet serve an important part in God’s plans (take, for example, Judas). That person may be an instrument that leads others to God who otherwise would not have made that choice.

But the idea of free will means we actually have a choice - not a perceived choice, but a REAL choice. If God only created people whom he knew would not reject him, then nobody on earth could actually reject God. The choice would be phony - an illusion.

And, oddly enough, it throws the entire economy of salvation out of wack. After all, if I cannot choose to reject God (because God would not create someone who would reject him), then I have no need of salvation. One might argue that it would be better this way (Jesus would not have needed to become incarnate, suffer, and die), but that’s maybe a big enough topic for a thread of its own.
 
This is a good one. I spent about a year in dialogue with a couple of Catholic friends and one Calvinist on this very issue. It was a great exercise; lots of digging, lots of learning.

We ended with the conclusion that I believe is consistent with Church teaching: man is predestined and man has free will. The two conditions coexist. I believe the Church takes a “negative” stance on this i.e. it teaches what is not correct and leaves the rest alone. If your stance excludes one of the two conditions or subordinates one to the other; then it probably falls outside Church acceptance.

Bottom line, it is a mystery, which is very difficult to deal with if you like your life ordered into nice, neat compartments like my Calvinist friend. It is sometimes impossible to reconcile Man’s world or experience to that of God.

But don’t take my word for it; keep digging!
 
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discerning:
Why would God create him/her if that is what will end up to him/her?
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Because that is the person’s choice to make.
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discerning:
Please help me to understand this mystery.
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One cannot really understand a mystery.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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discerning:
I am having trouble reconciling a few concepts as they pertain to God’s creation and free will. I’d appreciate if somebody could help to clarify this for me:
  • I understand that God created us in His own image, a key attribute of which was granting us free will.
  • I understand that God created us because He loves us, and wishes that we will seek out communion with Him. He wants us to one day be with Him in heaven.
  • I understand that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.
  • I understand that God transcends time.
So, given all of that… how do you make sense of my question in the subject line? At the time He creates that person, God would be able to foresee all of the choices that he/she would make in their lifetime. To maintain the promise of free will, He would not interfere and would allow him/her to make those choices.

Is that person then doomed to go to Hell? Why would God create him/her if that is what will end up to him/her?

Please help me to understand this mystery.

Thank you and God bless you.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure I can help you understand a mystery - by its very nature we are unable to completely understand it- however, I know that I take comfort in knowing that nothing happens in God’s universe by mistake, and while I may not understand all the whys and how-comes, I do believe that He does…and Catholics know that from great evil always comes great good.
 
Greetings discerning,

You could ask the same question in a different way.

I didn’t choose to be created, why should I be condemed to hell if
I do not choose to follow God’s ways?

Peace

Eric
 
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mlchance:
Because that is the person’s choice to make.

One cannot really understand a mystery.

– Mark L. Chance.
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I agree.
Look at the story of the prodigal son ( Luke 15 ). The father had two sons…each made choices. These choices??..the sons made…not the father. In this way God gives us all life…and choices to make. We live…we choose.
 
Eric Hyom:
Greetings discerning,

You could ask the same question in a different way.

I didn’t choose to be created, why should I be condemed to hell if
I do not choose to follow God’s ways?
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I think that the only answer that makes sense is that every single person gets what they most desire. So in that sense “you” are not condemned to hell, you choose it in the most complete sense, and you prefer it to heaven.
 
Eric Hyom:
I didn’t choose to be created, why should I be condemed to hell if I do not choose to follow God’s ways?
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Quite simply because the latter is a matter of choice.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I would like to reaffirm what the above posters said: You are not merely condemned to hell, but you actively have made a choice to go there.

In addition, our God is a merciful and loving God who wants the best for his creatures. Objectively speaking, one could say that it is better to exist (even in hell for all eternity) than to not exist at all (the one exception, perhaps, being Judas, as Jesus says in the Gospel that it would have been better for him to have never existed).

Hope this helps you out, but don’t worry about this too much. We’re not supposed to know everything-- we can’t, in fact! What we need to know has been revealed to us in His Word and through His Church. Look there for your answers, and let faith fill the gaps.

~SeminarianWalker
 
I don’t know if this makes sense, but I have always thought of it like this. If I read a book, say Romeo and Juliet. I read it and as I read I am learning new things. I discover what each character does and chooses to do at a given point. (ie, Juliet fakes her death but Romeo doesn’t get her letter so he believes she is truly dead) At the end of the book I know how the story started, progressed and ended and I know the general plot of the book. If I read it again, I already know how it all turns out BUT I do not make the characters do anything. It’s like God “wrote” the basis for each person and reads the book but doesn’t erase or edit the book after it has been written. I might have done a bad job at explaining that!!! I tried!🙂
 
Predestination and free will cannot coexist, they are a contradiction in terms. If I have true free will then, be definition, I am not predestined.

If God foreknows everything that will occurr, then being the CREATOR of everything, he must have purposed what will occurr. So he has made individuals specifically for the purpose of them going to hell…

Unless some people think that God rolls a cosmic dice each time he makes a new soul and goes “Oh look, this one’s going to hell, too bad but I’ll keep my graces open to him just for the sake of it”. It’s crazy, you cannot argue that God is good or loves us if we are presdestined. Our existence becomes nothing more than a means to glorify God, whether through damnation or salvation. We have no more value than animals, or a rock.
 
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cynic:
If God foreknows everything that will occurr, then being the CREATOR of everything, he must have purposed what will occurr. So he has made individuals specifically for the purpose of them going to hell…
Click to expand...
It is God’s will that all be saved and that none should perish. To say otherwise is to contradict scripture. Just because He knows that certain souls are going to Hell, it doesn’t mean that He wills it to happen.

2 Peter 3:9
1 Tim. 2:4

Foreknowledge is not predestination and isn’t the cause of an event.
 
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discerning:
I am having trouble reconciling a few concepts as they pertain to God’s creation and free will. I’d appreciate if somebody could help to clarify this for me:
  • I understand that God created us in His own image, a key attribute of which was granting us free will.
  • I understand that God created us because He loves us, and wishes that we will seek out communion with Him. He wants us to one day be with Him in heaven.
  • I understand that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.
  • I understand that God transcends time.
So, given all of that… how do you make sense of my question in the subject line? At the time He creates that person, God would be able to foresee all of the choices that he/she would make in their lifetime. To maintain the promise of free will, He would not interfere and would allow him/her to make those choices.

Is that person then doomed to go to Hell? Why would God create him/her if that is what will end up to him/her?

Please help me to understand this mystery.

Thank you and God bless you.
Click to expand...
Following Christ without free will would be meaningless. God knows the outcome, but He does not choose for the person; He doesn’t directly affect the person’s decision for Christ. Knowledge of something does not equate to having an affect upon the same thing–e.g. my knowledge of a story’s end doesn’t change the nature of the tale being told. I am sure the sinner grieves God, but how else can it be done? Free will is required and God is omniscient, so it stands to reason that He knows how things will turn out in the end.
 
I disagree that God specifically created individuals for hell. As I stated earlier, I believe the Church does teach that we possess real free will and are also predestined. Please read this excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia article on predestination.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“An unconditional and positive predestination of the reprobate not only to hell, but also to sin, was taught especially by Calvin…. Against such blasphemous teachings the Second Synod of Orange in 529 and again the Council of Trent had pronounced the ecclesiastical anathema. This condemnation was perfectly justified, because the heresy of Predestinarianism, in direct opposition to the clearest texts of Scripture, denied the universality of God’s salvific will as well as of redemption through Christ (cf. Wisdom 11:24 sq.; 1 Timothy 2:1 sq.), nullified God’s mercy towards the hardened sinner (Ezekiel 33:11; Romans 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9), did away with the freedom of the will to do good or evil, and hence with the merit of good actions and the guilt of the bad, and finally destroyed the Divine attributes of wisdom, justice, veracity, goodness, and sanctity…. We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events, all fatalistic necessity, however, being barred and human liberty remaining intact. Consequently man is free whether he accepts grace and does good or whether he rejects it and does evil. Just as it is God’s true and sincere will that all men, no one excepted, shall obtain eternal happiness, so, too, Christ has died for all, not only for the predestined, or for the faithful, though it is true that in reality not all avail themselves of the benefits of redemption. Though God preordained both eternal happiness and the good works of the elect, yet, on the other hand, He predestined no one positively to hell, much less to sin. Consequently, just as no one is saved against his will, so the reprobate perish solely on account of their wickedness.”
 
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cynic:
Predestination and free will cannot coexist, they are a contradiction in terms. If I have true free will then, be definition, I am not predestined.

If God foreknows everything that will occurr, then being the CREATOR of everything, he must have purposed what will occurr. So he has made individuals specifically for the purpose of them going to hell…

Unless some people think that God rolls a cosmic dice each time he makes a new soul and goes “Oh look, this one’s going to hell, too bad but I’ll keep my graces open to him just for the sake of it”. It’s crazy, you cannot argue that God is good or loves us if we are presdestined. Our existence becomes nothing more than a means to glorify God, whether through damnation or salvation. We have no more value than animals, or a rock.
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**600 **To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.

To assign our human frailties to God is the trouble all who discuss God have - whether cynical or not…we cannot truly understand a Divine Nature. This is where faith and trust come into play.
 
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frail:
It is God’s will that all be saved and that none should perish. To say otherwise is to contradict scripture. Just because He knows that certain souls are going to Hell, it doesn’t mean that He wills it to happen.

2 Peter 3:9
1 Tim. 2:4

Foreknowledge is not predestination and isn’t the cause of an event.
Click to expand...
but it IS the cause of the event in this situation, because he is the creator, so if he creates something knowing what it will do he causes it. He causes the future, he is not just an observer.
 
Cynic, I get what you are saying, but let’s try this. If I create some kind of machine, and somehow I manage to travel into the future and see that years later someone gets a hold of it and uses is for evil purposes even though I had invented it for good, does that mean that I created to be used for evil because I found out that it was eventually used that way? No. God created us but He is present in all times. Do you know anything about dimensions? in 2-D it’s all flat, just height and length. In 3-d there is height, lenght and width. In 4-D there is height, lenght, width and TIME. God exists outside of those dimensions, he can see us at any time, past, present and future. It’s like He creates something, hops over to the future and knows what choices they make. like skipping to the end of the book to see whether the good guys or the bad guys when and if the girl gets saved.
 
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cynic:
but it IS the cause of the event in this situation, because he is the creator, so if he creates something knowing what it will do he causes it. He causes the future, he is not just an observer.
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You have bound God to a linear, cause-and-effect, if-then timeline. You have limited God’s opportunity to determine each outcome to its “beginning”. Unlike man, God does not have a beginning or an end; He did not start out at point A and is now working His way to point B. He is at points A and B and all points in between right now, forever and always. He exists outside of time. His ways are incomprehensible.

Again, to propose God has created some solely for hell removes free will from the divine equation and limits the biblical promise that Christ died for all.

Further, a God that nullifies man’s free response to His grace, seems to be a God whose sovereignty and omniscience outweigh His perfect justness, mercy and love.
 
Good answer’s folk’s but how bout this…
Let’s suppose I go to hell (Gosh I hope not) :eek: I was created for His honor and glory, but my children or future grandchildren go to heaven, through free will and already God knows where I’m going to end up should my future generation lose out on their chances. What I’m saying is from the beginning I was formed to be and lived but chose an ultimate end, but bc of His love I was created which inturn brought life to my children so they could chose too.

The original question was why would God create humans that will end up in hell? I would like to think that the answer is they’re are possibly others after you who won’t 😉

Just and opinion 😃
 
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