Why does God seem silent?

[Snerticus]

Remember the prophet Elijah seeking to hear God’s voice in the thunder and earthquake and so on - in other words looking for a big, dramatic, obvious message from Him - and finding that His voice wasn’t in the thunder and earthquake at all, but rather God’s was the still, small voice that spoke to him afterwards?

Jesus could NOT have made Himself MORE perceptible - He walked and talked among us like any human being - was physically present to be heard, seen, and touched, and many did all of these things. Even with all this, many still did not truly perceive, or understand, or listen, or believe in Him.

What makes you think there would be any advantage to His being indisputably physically present today? We aren’t any more willing, in general, to truly perceive, or understand, or listen or believe, after all.

… which reminds me, I really want to get the book “A Still, Small Voice” by Fr. Benedict Groeschel. It’s supposed to be a good book on Catholic spirituality.

 

[lostlogic6910]

Hi to all,

I’m new here in the forums, and I just like to share my thoughts of why GOD goes on silent mode to us:

1. Presence - If GOD appeared to us, what will happen? We’ll DIE, because of our sin. Adam doesn’t have this problem before the fall, he always talk with GOD. Anyway, If GOD can show himself to us, then the devil will surely demand to be seen, on account of free will to choose.
2. Free will - GOD does not wants us to love him, just because he is GOD. GOD doesn’t want an automatic person but a person that love him from the heart.

3 Temptation - GOD does not tempt and cannot be tempted, but we can. We’ll always try to ask for freebies from him without really working for it like acquiring a million dollar without breaking a sweat or having a Ferrari on your backyard.

1. Knowledge - Some will always act like a wiseguy and ask stupid question to GOD like “Which came first, the chicken or the egg” or “can you create a boulder which even GOD can’t carry” or try really hard question and with our limited knowledge leave us more confused than ever.
2. Satisfaction - GOD wants us to earn our keeps in this world. Nothing taste as sweet as a hard earned reward.

These are just my thoughts, so if I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks!

 

[redhen]

Yes, of course, if god proved himself it would take away our free choice in whether to believe. This is why I am often cruel to my wife. If I were kind to her and acted like the kind of man she wanted to be married to, then she would have no choice but to love me. I have to beat her and cheat on her to infuse her with free will.



Arguing that knowledge takes away our free will is the single silliest argument I have ever heard in my entire life. The most obvious answer, and the only reasonable answer, is God seems like he’s not there because he’s not.

In applying Occam’s razor, your explanation would seem to be the best. Good analogy you got there as well. Kudos.

 

[Snerticus]

The most obvious answer, and the only reasonable answer, is God seems like he’s not there because he’s not.

It’s like that cartoon with two little characters standing in a large forest by themselves. When you look closer, they’re fleas standing amongst giant hairs. One of them looks at the other and says “You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there really is a dog.”

In a sense, God is there, and we are the ‘fleas’. Those fleas think that since they can’t see the dog, there is none. The movements are just earthquakes and windstorms and giant boulders pelting at them, those growls are just tremors and barking is thunder. Just mother nature. Something they have to live with because that’s the way the world is. But the dog is still there whether those fleas see him or not. They could even convince themselves and others that there is no such thing as a dog. But that does not diminish the fact there is one. The most obvious perception is there is no dog. Because, after all, if there was a dog, wouldn’t he show himself? Wouldn’t he say something? But his nature simply does not allow himself to present to fleas. Despite the fact that he is presenting himself to the best of his nature, and he is saying something.

Wow, it’s too bad fleas can’t think for themselves. I’d love to hear a discussion among them regarding their belief in dog. The non-believers arguing with the believers.

 

[Snerticus]

BTW - thanks to Fr. Serpa for the cartoon analogy. I had seen that a long time ago somewhere but I just heard about it again on CAL during a CA minute…

God Bless,
Snert

 

[Luke_K]

Originally Posted by Mersenne
The most obvious answer, and the only reasonable answer, is God seems like he’s not there because he’s not.

In applying Occam’s razor, your explanation would seem to be the best. Good analogy you got there as well. Kudos.

Or, God seems like he’s there to the billions of believers on the planet because he is!

Amazing logic, huh?

 

[JRKH]

It’s like that cartoon with two little characters standing in a large forest by themselves. When you look closer, they’re fleas standing amongst giant hairs. One of them looks at the other and says “You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there really is a dog.”

In a sense, God is there, and we are the ‘fleas’. Those fleas think that since they can’t see the dog, there is none. The movements are just earthquakes and windstorms and giant boulders pelting at them, those growls are just tremors and barking is thunder. Just mother nature. Something they have to live with because that’s the way the world is. But the dog is still there whether those fleas see him or not. They could even convince themselves and others that there is no such thing as a dog. But that does not diminish the fact there is one. The most obvious perception is there is no dog. Because, after all, if there was a dog, wouldn’t he show himself? Wouldn’t he say something? But his nature simply does not allow himself to present to fleas. Despite the fact that he is presenting himself to the best of his nature, and he is saying something.

Wow, it’s too bad fleas can’t think for themselves. I’d love to hear a discussion among them regarding their belief in dog. The non-believers arguing with the believers.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Not to throw the topic off, but is anyone else having problems with the width of the page on this thread?
It appears to me that the picture on zerinus’ signature is causing the width of the posts to expand.
If it is just me, I will live with the inconvenience. If others are having the same problem, perhaps zerinus will change his signature picture.

Either way - Back to the discussion.

Peace
James

 

[redhen]

Or, God seems like he’s there to the billions of believers on the planet because he is!

Amazing logic, huh?

When you tally up the followers of other religions, Christianity is a minority. Anyways, how does popularity validate a truth claim? That’s just bad logic.

Faith/belief is assenting to what others have stated. I believe the speed of light is 186,000 miles/hr because many experts, over the years, have proved this claim by experimentation. I could probably perform a quick & dirty home experiment to verify this, but I trust this experts.

In the same way, religious faith, handed down from the experts, and is assented to.

Or not.

Either way, the physical evidence for God seems to be lacking.

 

[Mersenne]

It’s like that cartoon with two little characters standing in a large forest by themselves. When you look closer, they’re fleas standing amongst giant hairs. One of them looks at the other and says “You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there really is a dog.”

In a sense, God is there, and we are the ‘fleas’. Those fleas think that since they can’t see the dog, there is none. The movements are just earthquakes and windstorms and giant boulders pelting at them, those growls are just tremors and barking is thunder. Just mother nature. Something they have to live with because that’s the way the world is. But the dog is still there whether those fleas see him or not. They could even convince themselves and others that there is no such thing as a dog. But that does not diminish the fact there is one. The most obvious perception is there is no dog. Because, after all, if there was a dog, wouldn’t he show himself? Wouldn’t he say something? But his nature simply does not allow himself to present to fleas. Despite the fact that he is presenting himself to the best of his nature, and he is saying something.

Wow, it’s too bad fleas can’t think for themselves. I’d love to hear a discussion among them regarding their belief in dog. The non-believers arguing with the believers.

The fleas aren’t aware of the dog because the dog has no way of making himself known and is to stupid to even consider that as an option. Are you saying god won’t make himself known because he’s too stupid to consider that as an option?

 

[Mersenne]

Or, God seems like he’s there to the billions of believers on the planet because he is!

Amazing logic, huh?

I haven’t heard of billions of people claiming that god seems to be there in the same sense as was meant by the OP. He’s talking about using the same criteria that we use for absolutely everything, not “I want it to be true therefore I’m going to pretend like it is”

 

[JRKH]

The fleas aren’t aware of the dog because the dog has no way of making himself known and is to stupid to even consider that as an option. Are you saying god won’t make himself known because he’s too stupid to consider that as an option?

I see no smilie in your post to indicate that you are pulling our leg, so I will answer you seriously even though I think you are smart enough to know better than what you wrote above.

That is not what is being proposed.
The image intended is that the dog is so large as compared to the fleas that the fleas cannot fully comprehend the dog and yet the fleas are completely dependent upon him.

God, on the other hand HAS made himself known to us. It is WE who are the stupid
ones if we do not accept His evidence.

Peace
James

 

[Snerticus]

The fleas aren’t aware of the dog because the dog has no way of making himself known and is to stupid to even consider that as an option. Are you saying god won’t make himself known because he’s too stupid to consider that as an option?

I see, so you think fleas are smarter than dogs? And you’re asking me what again?

 

[Snerticus]

I see no smilie in your post to indicate that you are pulling our leg, so I will answer you seriously even though I think you are smart enough to know better than what you wrote above.

That is not what is being proposed.
The image intended is that the dog is so large as compared to the fleas that the fleas cannot fully comprehend the dog and yet the fleas are completely dependent upon him.

God, on the other hand HAS made himself known to us. It is WE who are the stupid
ones if we do not accept His evidence.

Peace
James

 

[Mersenne]

I see no smilie in your post to indicate that you are pulling our leg, so I will answer you seriously even though I think you are smart enough to know better than what you wrote above.

That is not what is being proposed.
The image intended is that the dog is so large as compared to the fleas that the fleas cannot fully comprehend the dog and yet the fleas are completely dependent upon him.

I know that’s not what is intended, obviously, but it logically follows from the analogy. I thought I’d give the poster a chance to retract a statement that implies got is stupid, powerless, and malevolent towards us. The analogy doesn’t make any sense otherwise.

God, on the other hand HAS made himself known to us. It is WE who are the stupid ones if we do not accept His evidence.

What evidence? And didn’t god create us? So isn’t he responsible for making us stupid?

 

[Janechantal53]

I know that’s not what is intended, obviously, but it logically follows from the analogy. I thought I’d give the poster a chance to retract a statement that implies got is stupid, powerless, and malevolent towards us. The analogy doesn’t make any sense otherwise.

What evidence? And didn’t god create us? So isn’t he responsible for making us stupid?

Faith is believing without evidence. I pray that God grant you faith. My relationship with God is the most important one of my life. God has proven Himself to me that He is there over and over again. I hope that you will come to know Him and that someday you will look back on this time and see how much you’ve grown. You deserve to know His unconditional love and care for you. It’s like nothing you could ever imagine. May God bless you mightily!

 

[Mersenne]

Faith is believing without evidence.

Unless we have a thread about how silly it is to believe without evidence, then all of sudden all religious people are claiming that is most certainly not what faith is.

I pray that God grant you faith.

So it’s your fault and god’s fault if I don’t have faith I take it?

My relationship with God is the most important one of my life. God has proven Himself to me that He is there over and over again.

I thought faith didn’t require proof, and that if god proved himself that would take away free will? That has been the theological position lately as to why god doesn’t prove himself. So I guess sense god has proven himself to you, you don’t have free will, and you cannot be redeemed. Such a shame.

I hope that you will come to know Him and that someday you will look back on this time and see how much you’ve grown. You deserve to know His unconditional love and care for you. It’s like nothing you could ever imagine. May God bless you mightily!

I hope you’ll stop living in such a childish fantasy.

 

[Spirithound]

In applying Occam’s razor, your explanation would seem to be the best. Good analogy you got there as well. Kudos.

Occam’s Razor denies the existence of Rube Goldberg machines and is thus demonstrably false.

 

[JRKH]

I know that’s not what is intended, obviously, but it logically follows from the analogy. I thought I’d give the poster a chance to retract a statement that implies got is stupid, powerless, and malevolent towards us. The analogy doesn’t make any sense otherwise.

You mean that, because of your understandings, the analogy makes no sense to you otherwise. The analogy makes fine sense to me.

What evidence? And didn’t god create us? So isn’t he responsible for making us stupid?

Since you have placed something of a challenge out there, let us continue it.

Let us assume tha tthe Dog is smart enough to concider the option of making himself known to the fleas.
How should he go about it?

Peace
James

 

[Mersenne]

Occam’s Razor denies the existence of Rube Goldberg machines and is thus demonstrably false.

How exactly does it do that?