Why does Islam consider Jesus a prophet?

[inJESUS]

MariaG:

Thanks, Joseph for answering! I was afraid the actual topic of this thread would never get answered

As to where Jesus Himself said in the Bible.

Mark 14:60-62; Matt. 26: 63-65; Luke 22:67-70
This scripture from the Bible has Jesus himself calling Himself “I Am” This of course is a declaration of calling Himself God. When Moses was told to go and free God’s people, Moses asked God what His name was and God said “I AM”. This was very clear at the time since after Jesus said this, no more testimony was needed to convict Him.

There is a good article in CA
The Divinity of Christ

It addresses the above scripture as well as others scripture.

A follower of Christ,
Maria

Unfortunatly, even if you show his a thousand verse, he wont believe them coz:
once upon a time, a man called mohammad claimed to talk to a spirit ( heard by no one else except himself), said that the Bible is corrupt …at other times, he said the Bible is sound and that he came to confirm it…

from the verses i read in quran, i understood that mohammad meant that they changed the meaning, not the exact words…the burden lies on him to prove his claim but he didnt…the dead sea scrolls became mohammads ennemy, coz they exposed his lie.

 

[Reuben_J]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Brother Reuben;
I would say the same thing about Noah in the Bible and you would probably answer you believe it was inspired by God and so will be my answer about Jesus (PBUH) in the Holy Qur’an.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Yeah. Nothing can beat that argument. I guess it’s a draw.

Forgive me for my stubborness though. You said the prophet was inspired and so came the Quran. I said the apostles/evangelists were inspired and so came the Bible (NT in the case of Jesus’ sayings and the narration of his actions).

Given both writings were inspired/revealed, I would take the one written by material witnesses anytime.

Peace brother.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Reuben J:

Given both writings were inspired/revealed, I would take the one written by material witnesses anytime.

Salaam Reuben;
We already know that Paul was not en eye witness to Jesus. Is there any proof the four Gospels were authored by the disciples of Jesus?

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Reuben J:

Joseph_Alison:

What actually you were saying is that Christianity is not a practical religion. Its teachings are impractical and therefore unsustainable and cannot be followed in realistic living. To justify that you mentioned the failure of Christians to live up to the teaching of their religion.

Salaam Brother Reuben;
Sorry for the late answer, I must have missed your post.
No, I did not say that all the teachings of the Christian religion are impractical. However, to me, some are, I quoted them in the post #155.
There are great Christian people who dedicate their entire lives to the service of God, they are certainly guided by some great teachings, and one of those teachings is the love they have for the teacher and for others. A lot of people claim to love, but when it comes to prove their love, most of them fail.

for the road to righteousness and eternal life is narrow and long. It is the road to destruction and damnation that is wide and easy.

This statement reminded me of a saying of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH): " The Paradise is surrounded by hardships and the Hell-Fire is surrounded by temptations" Naratted Anas b. Malik in Sahih Muslim Book 040, Number 6778.

Knowing you as one of those reasonable Muslims here, I think that’s not what you really want to say, bad-mouthing the Christians.

Is that what transpired from my post? I certainly did not feel that way, would have it been the case, I would have refrained from even writing it. Praises to God, as you said you know me and you know I will never do that on purpose. If I offended you or anyone else, as always, my deepest apologies.

Putting the spat aside, there are important issues here to be considered nevertheless. Both the teachings of Mohammad and Jesus are purported to be from God by their respective followers. And yet in very important areas, Mohammad’ and Jesus’ teachings contradict each other.

Yes, there are differences; normal, they were sent in different time to different people, but when it comes to contradictions in the teachings, I don’t see what you are talking about, specific examples would be helpful.

You are right if you think that Christianity’ teachings are difficult to follow. Why? Because God’s ways are different from human ways. But God does not change His laws to make it easy for humans. Things that are right or wrong with God will never change.

God does not burden His creation with what it can’t bear or take. Who do you think are difficult to follow, the religious duties of Islam or those of Christianity? Praying a minimum of five times a day, fasting a whole month from sunset to sunrise, giving away annually 2.5% of one’s wealth to the poor and the needy and many other duties, are still being fervently followed by Muslims as if they were prescribed yesterday, by them the soul is purified because they are done for the sake of Him, for the sake of closeness to Him.

In Mohammad or the Quran rather, we see its laws are made to suit human desire and weaknesses. For example, human natural desire for revenge and dominate is satisfied in your law. You have law that satisfies human sexual urges – go and marry up to 4 wives, it’s alright.?QUOTE]
Islam deal with the facts, Allah (SWT) created those humans, and He knows better their needs.

Jesus will never condone those sins and his laws are stipulated accordingly.

Natural desire for revenge is a human character that cannot be denied. It is deterrent for someone to know that what he could do to others would done to him in the exact same way.
How much people do you think turn the other cheek?

Sexual urge is a human character as well. It could be either regulated or anarchic. Islam selected to regulate it, by making it a responsibility on people. It is satisfied through responsible means.

Of course they are difficult to follow, but God’ grace makes it easy for us if we are really sincere in following them. This is what we call the power of the Holy Spirit that enables Christians to do the things they don’t normally able to do on their own. So you’d see extraordinary holy lives of Christian saints and personalities; lives that are selfless and devotion to God.

I don’t deny that wonderful Christian people exist and are influenced by the teachings of their religion.

I think this is the gist of what Catholics here are trying to put forth. The revelations to Mohammad are so ominously close to human made laws, while the teachings of Jesus are so uncompromising in its moral and spiritual values.

If you are interested in learning about moral and spiritual values in Islam, you may want to visit follow this link

Continued…

 

[Joseph_Alison]

…Continued and end.

Unless Muslims here can come up with better explanation, Mohammad certainly looks like a contradiction to Jesus in many aspects, from ancient prophecies to their respective teachings. He certainly did not fit the norm of a prophet in our eyes. To me from the information available here, he looks more like an uneducated guy, shrewd and smart enough in pushing his way to have followers. His revelations are nothing intellectual and some of them seem rightly plagiarized from Christian heretics of his time. I wish I can believe you about the goodness of Muhammad, but on the whole the picture of him doesn’t paint that way.

At least you have an educated way of wording your opinion.

From Christians’ view point, the content of his teachings certainly did not come from divine source but more of anti Christ, that is, satanic.

Satan himself would disagree with you on this one. Can you imagine Satan forbidding adultery, drinking, gambling etc; and admonishing worship of the Creator, seeking refuge from him to Allah (SWT), modesty, alms giving, care for the parents, humbleness, and all the virtues you will find in the link I provided and more?
Brother Reuben, I humbly don’t think you have an informed opinion on Islam and its teachings.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph_Alison:

…Continued and end.

At least you have an educated way of wording your opinion.

Satan himself would disagree with you on this one. Can you imagine Satan forbidding adultery, drinking, gambling etc; and admonishing worship of the Creator, seeking refuge from him to Allah (SWT), modesty, alms giving, care for the parents, humbleness, and all the virtues you will find in the link I provided and more?
Brother Reuben, I humbly don’t think you have an informed opinion on Islam and its teachings.

Salaam.
Joseph.

when we say satanic, it does not mean that everything should be bad; even satan believes in God.
Satanic or anti-Christ is any spirit that gives a different “Jesus” and teaches different teachings; mohammad did both.
Mohammad did not forbid adultery according to Jesus…He condoned it when he allowed up to 4 women + what your right hand possesses…mohamad even contradicts the OT regarding polygamy…so mohamad condoned a mortal sin…As for drinking or eating pork, Jesus said that not what enters the mouth that defiles it but what comes from it…satan wouldnt care about your food but about your thoughts and words…denying that Jesus is Son of God for example satanic and a characteristic of an anti-Christ.As for the other virtues you mentioned, pagans or atheist can do them as well.
So when we say mohammad is satanic, it is because he gave a different reality of who Jesus is and because he gave opposite teachings :
Polygamy and asking a woman to get married before she can return to her previous husband is what God abhors and calls shameful in OT and NT…so obviously mohammad did neither confirm the prophets before him nor did he come from the same God .

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, there are differences; normal, they were sent in different time to different people, but when it comes to contradictions in the teachings, I don’t see what you are talking about, specific examples would be helpful.

Polygamy, eye for eye , divorce, killing in the name of God, having sex with slaves,asking a woman to remarry before she goesback to her previous husband are all opposite to Jesus.

God does not burden His creation with what it can’t bear or take.

God does not compromise his Holiness with sinful people…he isHoly and his standards are Holy…if you can meet such a Holy God only by applying the islamic sharia them afraid this deity is not that Holy coz deeds do not make you sinless and you must be sinless to be with God who is so Holy…just kile Adam was cast down from heaven coz he sinned, likewise we must be sinless to gain God back…can we?

Who do you think are difficult to follow, the religious duties of Islam or those of Christianity?

those of Christianity with no doubt…if you fast one month and if you pray 5 times, we are supposed to pray and fast constantly …we are supposed to love even our ennemies ( unlike you)…we are supposed to turn the right cheek ( unlike you)…we are supposed to rejoice if you insult us ( unlike you)…we are supposed to give 2 cloaks if you ask for 1…we are supposed to walk 2 miles if you ask for 1…we are supposed to help ANY person who asks for it…we are supposed to feed ANY hungry…we are supposed to treat ANY person just like we were to treat Jesus the human…we are supposed to have pure thoughts…we are supposed not to utter bad words…we are supposed to marry 1 wife and no divorce ( unlike you)…we are supposed to repent before a priest constantly and many other things…we are all asked to do them…and yes we can do them like hundreds of Saints who did them and are working miracles in our lives…the love and peace Jesus grants to those who ask for them make it a joy for us to avoid sin…
When you focus more on earthly deeds, we focus on both…but the difference is that when we do good, we must not boast about it…and it is not something obligatory coz God doesnt need robots…it is something between us and God…

by them the soul is purified because they are done for the sake of Him, for the sake of closeness to Him.

deeds do not make you pure and sinless ; you need something more to meet God’s standard. We strive to be ideal and pure, not to gain heaven, but to praise our Lord who loves us so much…He saved us and we confirm our acceptance of his love and salvation by deeds…So it is faith by Jesus’ salvation and deeds, coz Jesus is clear : all fall short before the Glory of God…which means, it takes more than deeds to meet God’s Holiness…it needs God’s interference for us.

Islam deal with the facts, Allah (SWT) created those humans, and He knows better their needs.

so allah bases his law on human needs? thats why he granted many women on earth and in paradise? thats why he allowed easy divorce? does God compromise his holiness with our needs? Jesus says : not on bread alone do we live but byevery word spoken by God.

Natural desire for revenge is a human character that cannot be denied. It is deterrent for someone to know that what he could do to others would done to him in the exact same way.

so because natural desire is sinful, should God accept it and satisfy our sins? this is no holy deity but a human deity with human mind.

How much people do you think turn the other cheek?

many…but irrelevant…God’s standard is high…He does not compromise His Holiness…did allah get so low as to meet our sinful desires and weaknesses?

Sexual urge is a human character as well. It could be either regulated or anarchic. Islam selected to regulate it, by making it a responsibility on people. It is satisfied through responsible means

exactly…allah falls to the level of our sexual urges…No bro…Jesus became a human to make us godly…if Jesus did not satisfy his sexual urges,and natural desire for revenge, it means that people can meet his teachings as well…and millions did, which proves allah’s compromise and standards as law and false.

If you are interested in learning about moral and spiritual values in Islam, you may want to visit follow this link

no offence but he who has Jesus as a moral ideal does in no way need someone like mohammad.

 

[inJESUS]

cont…
Satan’s aim is to lead people away from their salvation…no person gave salvation as Jesus did on his own authority, so satans aim is to make people think that Jesus did not die to save them.

 

[inJESUS]

Reuben J:

Given both writings were inspired/revealed, I would take the one written by material witnesses anytime.

Peace brother.

exactly…since when does God send an angel to give a new religion to only one person with no one else to witness to that spirit ? thats not how God revealed himself for the past 3000 years.

 

[Reuben_J]

Peace to you, brother Joseph.
Joseph_Alision:

Salaam Brother Reuben;
Sorry for the late answer, I must have missed your post.
No, I did not say that all the teachings of the Christian religion are impractical. However, to me, some are, I quoted them in the post #155.
There are great Christian people who dedicate their entire lives to the service of God, they are certainly guided by some great teachings, and one of those teachings is the love they have for the teacher and for others. A lot of people claim to love, but when it comes to prove their love, most of them fail.

Thanks for responding. I didn’t really expect to participate in this thread that time but your posts caught my attention when you listed the many failures of Christians in their lives in the world today. Having dialogued with you earlier on, it seemed to me much unlike you from the one that I know of. So I thought maybe you wanted to tell us that Christians too don’t fare better as far as following our religion’s teachings are concerned, and by implication it’s not the religion that’s bad but the followers are. You said that, perhaps I thought, in retaliation to some Christians here who equate Islam with bad Muslims.

I’m sorry brother Joseph to have misjudged you. Yes, that’s my human weakness.
Reuben J:

for the road to righteousness and eternal life is narrow and long. It is the road to destruction and damnation that is wide and easy…

I was paraphrasing this from Mt 7:13-14 “Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it”.

Quoting from the scripture (the Bible) doesn’t always go down well with Muslims and I was trying to avoid sounding scriptural.
Joseph_Alision:

This statement reminded me of a saying of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH): " The Paradise is surrounded by hardships and the Hell-Fire is surrounded by temptations" Naratted Anas b. Malik in Sahih Muslim Book 040, Number 6778.

It would be great if that’s to found in the Quran.
Joseph_Alision:

Is that what transpired from my post? I certainly did not feel that way, would have it been the case, I would have refrained from even writing it. Praises to God, as you said you know me and you know I will never do that on purpose. If I offended you or anyone else, as always, my deepest apologies.

No apology necessary brother. Differences in inter-religious discussion are to be expected; sometimes they can be heated up. But we know these are just discussions. We can always be friends, be brothers, despite our religious differences.

As for my knowledge in Islam, which I mentioned to you sometimes back, is admittedly very minimal. I’m ashamed of it especially since you know a lot about Christianity. But thanks God, I do learn a lot here in this forum from Muslim like yourself. The problem is, you know, you have to take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes honest discussion and exchange of ideas can be overshadowed by the inclination to attack the opposite religion.

As for the rest of the post, I think inJesus has addressed them very well. I couldn’t say them better myself. I think Muslims too should give inJesus the credit for his knowledge of the Quran, even though you might not agree with him at all.

God bless.

Reuben.

 

[Reuben_J]

Joseph_Alision:

Salaam Reuben;
We already know that Paul was not en eye witness to Jesus. Is there any proof the four Gospels were authored by the disciples of Jesus?

The origins of the Gospels and the epistles have been studied and research extensively over the centuries. There is no other book in this world that has gone so much scrutiny as the Bible.

I’m not a scholar on this, and for that matter, not on anything else, but generally it is accepted that they were written by the apostles as mentioned or scribed by their close disciples. Perhaps other Catholics here can offer a more indepth summary on this subject.

Personally I say that Paul was more of a theologian of his day. Spiritually for us he should be even greater than the 12 disciples as he was directly converted by Jesus himself. He lived during Jesus’ time and worked with the other disciples/apostles of Jesus after the resurrection. So you can imagine the sharing of thoughts among themselves.

Proof will always be subjected to debate. But for those who want proof I’m sure it is there; and for those who don’t, no matter how tangible it will be, it is no use to them.

Peace brother.

 

[MariaG]

inJESUS:

Unfortunatly, even if you show his a thousand verse, he wont believe them coz:
once upon a time, a man called mohammad claimed to talk to a spirit ( heard by no one else except himself), said that the Bible is corrupt …at other times, he said the Bible is sound and that he came to confirm it…

from the verses i read in quran, i understood that mohammad meant that they changed the meaning, not the exact words…the burden lies on him to prove his claim but he didnt…the dead sea scrolls became mohammads ennemy, coz they exposed his lie.

Yes, I understand that. But I also wrote that I was hoping he could understand why I believe it since I do think that the New Testament is the inspired word of God, just as I now have a better understanding why he only considers Jesus to be a prophet.

Understanding anothers point of view, while respectfully disagreeing is sometimes where a person must leave an argument, especially here in this kind of forum, leaving seeds to be feed by others if God so wills.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Jesus_Freak]

John 1:10,11&14
He was in the world1, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.

He came1 unto his own, and they that were his own received him not.

:14
]The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth

 

[StMarkEofE]

???

 

[Reuben_J]

inJESUS:

exactly…since when does God send an angel to give a new religion to only one person with no one else to witness to that spirit ? thats not how God revealed himself for the past 3000 years.

Without trying to offend our Muslim friends here, unfortunately, inJESUS, you are right…. In the context of the Bible, this is not the usual way that God would send His Words to His prophets.

Usually there were witnesses to it or if not, the words would be accompanied by signs and wonders, or both. So usual was this phenomena that it’s became a ‘trademark’ to the authenticity of God’s Word. Pharisees later were rebuked for asking for signs and wonders all the time as proof because this denoted lack of faith. Nevertheless in major revelations, God’s Words were accompanied by signs and wonders, especially when there were no material witnesses to testify to its truth.

 

[srp643]

MariaG:

I realize that this thread has moved onto other things, but since the originally question has still not been answered…

Why does Islam consider Jesus a prophet when Jesus Himself claimed to be God?

**Does Islam not believe that Jesus said this? **

**If Jesus did say it, how can He be considered anything but a false prophet by Islam? **

**What exactly did Jesus say according to Islam? **

Thanks for trying to get us back on track Maria. Sadly, the original post and these questions remain unanswered.

 

[inJESUS]

no guys they dont believe Jesus said this coz they believe this is not the true gospel of Jesus but human creation for the most part… and we eliminated all the passags about mohammad and maybe marrying 4 + slaves, eye for eye, sex with slaves, divorce ecc

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Without trying to offend our Muslim friends here, unfortunately, inJESUS, you are right…. In the context of the Bible, this is not the usual way that God would send His Words to His prophets

Usually there were witnesses to it or if not, the words would be accompanied by signs and wonders, or both. So usual was this phenomena that it’s became a ‘trademark’ to the authenticity of God’s Word. Pharisees later were rebuked for asking for signs and wonders all the time as proof because this denoted lack of faith. Nevertheless in major revelations, God’s Words were accompanied by signs and wonders, especially when there were no material witnesses to testify to its truth. .

Miracles were intended for those who witnessed them, however many did not believe in them even though they saw them. A miracle has two objectives 1) to strengthen the prophet and be a proof to his prophethood; without miracle everyone can claim to be a prophet, 2) to be a proof against the ones witnessing it but rejecting the prophethood of the messenger.

If someone rejects the truth of a miracle because he did not witness it, he has all the rights to do so and God would have nothing against him the Judgment Day.
All miracles performed by the prophets of God did not last but for the life of the prophets themselves, people now have all the rights to doubt their veracity because they did not witness them.

A true miracle should be an everlasting miracle, and since Muhammad (PBUH) was the last messenger to mankind from God, his miracle should not be attached to his person, that is because after dying, he could not perform it anymore; his miracle then should outlive him and be everlasting for the next generations to see. You guessed it, his everlasting miracle was the true words of God, the Creator of heavens and earth, and it was the Holy Qur’an, the living miracle. I suggest you read it with an open mind –if you did not already- to have a flavor on what the book is all about; if you find it to be nothing, at least you would have an idea on what those crazy Muslims hold to be the Holy Word of the Creator.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

a miracle is not a book…none of the Biblical prophets considered this a miracle…besides, millions do not consider the quran as miracle but as a bunch of appcryphal passages, jewish and christiand legends, distorted history ecc…thats not how any of the Biblical prophets were considered prophet for 3000 years.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

inJESUS:

a miracle is not a book…none of the Biblical prophets considered this a miracle…besides, millions do not consider the quran as miracle but as a bunch of appcryphal passages, jewish and christiand legends, distorted history ecc…thats not how any of the Biblical prophets were considered prophet for 3000 years.

Salaam inJESUS.
Do you pretend to teach God about what His miracle should be?
Millions of people consider the Qur’an to be a miracle from the Creator. Your insinuations about appocryphal passages, jewish and christiand legends, are but wishful thinking.

Salaam.
Joseph.