Why does Islam consider Jesus a prophet?

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam Reuben;
I realised that I forgot to greet you in my reply to your post. “No talking before greeting” is the rule. am I loosing my manners or what?

Salaam.
Joseph

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam inJESUS.
Do you pretend to teach God about what His miracle should be?

no i dont; i refer to the Bible to know :

God had promised that the prophet to come would be like Moses in this mediatorial work, we must conclude that the distinguishing features of the prophet would be these:

1. He would be the direct mediator of a covenant between God and his people;
2. He would know God face to face;
3. His office would be confirmed by great signs and wonders which he would do by the power of God in the sight of all the nation of Israel.

This conclusion is in fact clearly established by these last words in the Book of Deuteronomy:
And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, none like him for all the signs and wonders which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great and terrible deeds which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel.
Deuteronomy 34.10-12.
The three distinguishing features of Moses as a prophet are clearly mentioned: he was the mediator between God and Israel, he knew the Lord face to face, and he did great signs and wonders. The prophet like him would obviously have to emulate these unique features of his prophethood. Did Muhammad possess these exceptional characteristics by which the prophet was to be recognised?

Mohammad was prophecized by no one ( except as false prophet) and he made absolutely no miracle when he was supposed to do many like Moses or Jesus.

Millions of people consider the Qur’an to be a miracle from the Creator.

but billions do not. A miracle is a miracle.

Your insiniations about appcryphal passages, jewish and christiand legends, are but wishful thinking.

thats why no one answered Hector’s paralellism thread? wishful thinking when i bring you the passage from quran and show you in which book it existed long time before him? yea sure…Maybe allah quoting the talmud and the legends is wishful thinking.

Salaam.
Joseph

salaam, Yousef Ibn Ali

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Reuben;
I realised that I forgot to greet you in my reply to your post. “No talking before greeting” is the rule. am I loosing my manners or what?

Salaam.
Joseph

i did not know about this rule i greet before going…i’ll make sure to apply this rule

 

[Joseph_Alison]

inJESUS:

no i dont; i refer to the Bible to know :

God had promised that the prophet to come would be like Moses in this mediatorial work, we must conclude that the distinguishing features of the prophet would be these:

1. He would be the direct mediator of a covenant between God and his people;

1. He would know God face to face;

1. His office would be confirmed by great signs and wonders which he would do by the power of God in the sight of all the nation of Israel.

This conclusion is in fact clearly established by these last words in the Book of Deuteronomy:
And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, none like him for all the signs and wonders which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great and terrible deeds which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel.
Deuteronomy 34.10-12.
The three distinguishing features of Moses as a prophet are clearly mentioned: he was the mediator between God and Israel, he knew the Lord face to face, and he did great signs and wonders. The prophet like him would obviously have to emulate these unique features of his prophethood. Did Muhammad possess these exceptional characteristics by which the prophet was to be recognised?
Mohammad was prophecized by no one ( except as false prophet) and he made absolutely no miracle when he was supposed to do many like Moses or Jesus.

Salaam inJESUS;
I quote here some verses of Deuteromony, let’s go through them. I would be grateful to you if you could point to me where you identify Jesus in those verses.

DEUT 18:15 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
DEUT 18:16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
DEUT 18:17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
DEUT 18:18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
DEUT 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
DEUT 18:20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.
DEUT 18:21 And if thou say in thy heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken?
DEUT 18:22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yousef Ibn Ali

funny.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph, you allured before this to the Comforter and i showed you it has nothing to do with islam; now this is the second passage that muslims try to use ( from the corrupt Bible) to prove the Bible speaks about mohammad.

First : how do you make sure this passage is not corrupt?
Second: give me your own understanding in what way is mohammad the prophet to come in light of this passage and the passage i gave in my earlier post ; after that i will point out where the interpretation went wrong and am sure others will help you out as well.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

inJESUS:

Joseph, you allured before this to the Comforter and i showed you it has nothing to do with islam; now this is the second passage that muslims try to use ( from the corrupt Bible) to prove the Bible speaks about mohammad.

First : how do you make sure this passage is not corrupt?
Second: give me your own understanding in what way is mohammad the prophet to come in light of this passage and the passage i gave in my earlier post ; after that i will point out where the interpretation went wrong and am sure others will help you out as well.

Salaam inJESUS;
Never think because I don’t answer some of your posts, it means I have nothing to say. When you quote from the Bible to justify your beliefs, I feel I have to stop there for respect for your beliefs, I seldom take the freedom to interpret the scriptures of others, and these are red lines I imposed on myself. This is you have to understand.

It is never my intent to try to shake people’s beliefs, and that is why you barely see me opening new threads, however I do engage in discussions when I see it fit, but always with a positive mind and in a respectful manner, and when I feel I have hurt the feelings of people, I immediately present my apologies to them.

Most of your posts and replies are tainted with mockery and mocking remarks, you barely care for the feelings of your guests, and I am one of them; if you are not aware, then I am telling you. However to me, you are a good subject to train my patience on, and so far I am getting along with you just fine. I don’t know why, but most of those who try to identify with Jesus by having his name in their usernames act with such aggressiveness and lack of regard for others, I am sure Jesus would disagree.

More to come about the specifics of your post Incha’Allah tomorrow.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam inJESUS;
Never think because I don’t answer some of your posts, it means I have nothing to say. When you quote from the Bible to justify your beliefs, I feel I have to stop there for respect for your beliefs, I seldom take the freedom to interpret the scriptures of others, and these are red lines I imposed on myself. This is you have to understand.

It is never my intent to try to shake people’s beliefs, and that is why you barely see me opening new threads, however I do engage in discussions when I see it fit, but always with a positive mind and in a respectful manner, and when I feel I have hurt the feelings of people, I immediately present my apologies to them.

Most of your posts and replies are tainted with mockery and mocking remarks, you barely care for the feelings of your guests, and I am one of them; if you are not aware, then I am telling you. However to me, you are a good subject to train my patience on, and so far I am getting along with you just fine. I don’t know why, but most of those who try to identify with Jesus by having his name in their usernames act with such aggressiveness and lack of regard for others, I am sure Jesus would disagree.

More to come about the specifics of your post Incha’Allah tomorrow.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Shalom Joseph
Thank you for this honest post. I personally would like to make some statments :
i do not love / respect Islam…i love/respect muslims coz they are God’s children just like me…so when i criticize islam, am criticizing its teachings…if a muslim cannot differentiate between the 2 and thinks that criticizing islam is criticizing him then am sorry, but it doesnt work that way.
Second, english is not my native language; i just cannot manipulate it adequatly…so when i use a harsh word it is because i just don’t know how to put it in a different way coz of lack of vocab but am working on it…likewise, if i write blunt sentences it is simply because i cant manipulate words.

So please do not take any post personally…i love you and appreciate you on this forum . I do not have to demean islam to make Christianity looks better or something ; no, Christianity stands by itself perfectly…
i love Jesus so much that mohammads lies drive me crazy sometimes hehe but am not asked to insult muslims for it but to love them and pray for them and thats what i do.

So apologies…i’ll try my best to formulate my sentences in a good way. And no offense to muslims but to Islam…unless you consider that islam= you which makes it hard for anyone.

Jesus’ peace , love and blessing to you and all mankind.

 

[srp643]

inJESUS:

no guys they dont believe Jesus said this coz they believe this is not the true gospel of Jesus but human creation for the most part… and we eliminated all the passags about mohammad and maybe marrying 4 + slaves, eye for eye, sex with slaves, divorce ecc

thanks inJesus. you are truly prolific judging by all of your thoughtful posts and therefore inspirational to many of us. you have helped answer the original post from a Catholic perspective but again I have yet to get an educated response from an islamic perspective. keep up the good work.

Dominus tecum.

 

[Jesus_Freak]

It doesn’t matter to me whether the muslims or anyone else beleives in devinity of Jesus, take a look at this:

Matthew 7:21-29
21 "Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as ‘Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven. 22 On judgment day many will tell me, ‘Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized. F51 ’ 24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and obeys me is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse, because it is built on rock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and ignores it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will fall with a mighty crash.” 28 After Jesus finished speaking, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 for he taught as one who had real authority – quite unlike the teachers of religious law.

---

Notice in bold: it’s Jesus telling them on the judgement day… what does that tell you?

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord

 

[Reuben_J]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Reuben;
I realised that I forgot to greet you in my reply to your post. “No talking before greeting” is the rule. am I loosing my manners or what?

Salaam.
Joseph

Peace to you, brother Joseph.

Not at all Brother Joseph. I appreciate and value your courtesy here and it speaks well for you and your religion because I’m sure you are its fruit. Good fruit.

I don’t include greetings sometimes simply because of my poor typing skill (I’m very slow) and maybe at times I just want to be brief. But when I come in, my thought and my heart are always full of peace too . When it’s not, I may need your wisdom or some bros and sis here to fraternally correct me .

I’m just back from a busy schedule and might be away for a few days again. I’ll catch up with you whenever time allows it.

Your brother,
Reuben

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben J:

No apology necessary brother. Differences in inter-religious discussion are to be expected; sometimes they can be heated up. But we know these are just discussions. We can always be friends, be brothers, despite our religious differences.
Peace be to you, brother Joseph.

Peace to you brother Joseph,

BTW, I’m kinda disappointed that you did not respond to this, not that you must. Maybe perhaps I was too subtle in bringing forth a point. Nevertheless, in the absence of genuine demonstration from Muslims as to how their scripture is to be realistically practiced, then we have no choice but to agree with **inJESUS’ ** understanding of the Quranic verses that he brought up.

God bless.

Reuben.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Reuben J:

I’m kinda disappointed that you did not respond to this, not that you must. Maybe perhaps I was too subtle in bringing forth a point.

Salaam Brother Reuben.
I am sorry I disappointed you.
I humbly say to you that I don’t have the power to change your opinion (and the opinions of many for that matter) to convince you that the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) are far from being “satanic”. This is a hard task beyond my capabilities; despite whatever I might say; I don’t think it is going to change.

When I point out to the teachings of Islam, showing that they are far from being satanic, I am answered that even Satan believes in God and masquerades as an angel of light! This statement, as far as Islam is concerned, is on the border of irrationality and I lack the power to fight irrationality.
What can I say to this? That the statement is false? Yes, in part it is. Yes, Satan believes in God, believes in Hell (that is why he wants to drag with him, out of pure envy, as many of the children of Adam as he could) but he never enjoined any good, big or small on any human being; he is all evil, however somehow I am told that he influenced Islam and the result is that part of it is good and part of it is evil! Do a Qur’an search for the word “Satan”, you will be surprised what comes up.

inJESUS.

Is polygamy evil? If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the prophets of God, and God did nothing to forbid them from practicing evil openly! By the way, it is the same God of the NT, is it the same “I AM” which spoke to Moses?

Is an eye for eye evil? If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the “chosen” people of God, and God did nothing to forbid them from practicing evil openly! By the way, is it the same God of the NT, is it the “I AM” which spoke to Moses?

Is killing (justly) in the name of God evil? If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and therefore I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the supposedly chosen people of God:

“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him, But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves” [NUM 31:17-18].

“In the cities of these nations whose land the Lord your God is giving you as a patrimony, you shall not leave any creature alive. You shall annihilate them — Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites — as the Lord your God commanded you. [Deuteronomy 20:16-17]

“Go now and fall upon the Amalekites and destroy them, and put their property under ban. Spare no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks, camels, and asses” [1 Samuel 15:2-3]

“After the conquest of Jericho: “They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it — men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” [Joshua 6:21]
By the way is this the same God as the God of the NT? Is this the “I AM” which spoke to Moses?

inJESUS:

Asking a woman to remarry before she goes back to her previous husband is the opposite of Jesus.

Let us first look at the supposed teachings of Jesus concerning divorce.
“It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement, but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery” [MT 5:32-31] Per Jesus’ teachings, how many Christians committed adultery, and are still commiting adultery by remarrying a divorced woman?

Your statement is an ignorant one. After he divorces his wife three times, it is the husband who cannot remarry his former wife until she is divorced from any other man she would have married.
Divorce is not a game my friend, the husband knows the rules, three times is the max he can divorce his wife, after that, he can choose to marry another woman, or wait until the wife he divorced for the third time remarry another man and be “possibly” divorced from him, then and only then her former husband can remarry her. He can wait his entire life if the new couple is enjoying itself and stay faithful to each other.
ReubenJ:

Nevertheless, in the absence of genuine demonstration from Muslims as to how their scripture is to be realistically practiced,.

I love to think that you have joking only! Muslims do not realistically practice their religion? Did I give you that impression? And honestly, how do you know Muslims are realistically practicing their religion or not?
A quick remainder to assess if Christians are realistically practicing their religion:

Cont…

 

[Joseph_Alison]

…continued and end.

“And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell" [MT 5:29]

“And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into he” [MT 5:30]

“Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [MT 5:38-39]

“And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also”. [MT 5:40]

“Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute yo”; [MT 5: 43-44]

“It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement, but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery” [MT 5:32-31]
How practical are the above teachings?
ReubenJ:

Then we have no choice but to agree with **inJESUS’ ** understanding of the Quranic verses that he brought up

I love to think that you are only teasing me. If you really like to take inJESUS as your “final” authority on the Qur’an, it is you call; I don’t think I have a say into it, it is up to you.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam Brother Reuben.
I am sorry I disappointed you.
I humbly say to you that I don’t have the power to change your opinion (and the opinions of many for that matter) to convince you that the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) are far from being “satanic”. This is a hard task beyond my capabilities; despite whatever I might say; I don’t think it is going to change.

When I point out to the teachings of Islam, showing that they are far from being satanic, I am answered that even Satan believes in God and masquerades as an angel of light! This statement, as far as Islam is concerned, is on the border of irrationality and I lack the power to fight irrationality.
What can I say to this? That the statement is false? Yes, in part it is. Yes, Satan believes in God, believes in Hell (that is why he wants to drag with him, out of pure envy, as many of the children of Adam as he could) but he never enjoined any good, big or small on any human being; he is all evil, however somehow I am told that he influenced Islam and the result is that part of it is good and part of it is evil! Do a Qur’an search for the word “Satan”, you will be surprised what comes up.

Salaam Joseph,
i believe that i already explained what mean by anti-Christ…it is anyone who gives a different “Jesus” and different teachings and we both agree mohammad did both…as for being satanic, well, you said it : satan’s aim is to prevent your salvation…from a Christian point of view, mohammad is satan’s outil coz he made you believe that Jesus did not die for you, hence Jesus is not your salvation, hence you have no salvation…from this point on including mohammads teachings and way of life, we don’t really doubt who mohammad was. Not to mention that mohammad taught and allowed things considered “shameful” to God, like polygamy, obliging a woman to get married beforeshe can go back back to her husbad ecc…these are AGAINST the Biblical God hence could never come from Him unless we blaspheme and say God is inconsistent with morality.

inJESUS.

Is polygamy evil? polygamy is a sin.

If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the prophets of God, and God did nothing to forbid them from practicing evil openly! By the way, it is the same God of the NT, is it the same “I AM” which spoke to Moses?

God did not condone polygamy neither in OT not NT…in fact, prophets were punished for it and dozens of them were NOT polygamous including Moses and Abraham…and Jesus stressed the SAME thing by quoting Moses.

Is an eye for eye evil? If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the “chosen” people of God, and God did nothing to forbid them from practicing evil openly! By the way, is it the same God of the NT, is it the “I AM” which spoke to Moses?

with all my due respect, the OT’s view of God was not complete…it was fulfilled by Jesus. Anyway, Moses’ law was not to humanity but to his own people…so when Moses allowed divorce, what did Jesus reply? he said : because of the harshness of your hearts did MOSES allow you to divorce, BUT IT WAS NOT INITIONALY THIS…so if Moses allowed some stuff, it does not mean that what he did is what God wanted, otherwise Jesus’ wouldnt have given the complete , universal truth. So when Moses’ law was for a CERTAIN period, to CERTAIN people, Jesus/God’s law is eternal, to humanity and this is clear i guess. God said that He will make a new covenant with his people .

 

[inJESUS]

cont…

Is killing (justly) in the name of God evil? If yes, then it must be the work of Satan, and therefore I must conclude that the wicked one was playing havoc in OT times with the supposedly chosen people of God:

same interpretation. Jesus NEVER allowed killing for God and God in the OT says : vengeance is MINE…so when Moses kills and attributes it to God, it does NOT mean that God literally told him : hey Moses go kill…the God who said : thou shall not kill doesnt really need to break his own law and doesnt even need Moses to carry his vengeance…this was Moses’ view of God and Jesus gave the COMPLETE VIEW AND TRUTH…God does not change his mind or morality, it is OUR understanding of God that evolves; the Bible traces the history of God with his people, who they thought he is and how they carried his will and it culminated with Jesus who gave an image to the One that cannot be seen, and gave his eternal truth to all humanity. No one is sinless, all prophets sinned and went agaisnt God in some time or the other. So yes killing in the name of God is a sin because war or killing do NOT come from God but from human sinfulness. So yes we should defend ourselves if we are attacked but it does NOT mean we will be get a heavenly bonus for it or that we are applying God’s wish for God’s wish is never war or killing but peace and loving.

Let us first look at the supposed teachings of Jesus concerning divorce.
“It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement, but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery” [MT 5:32-31] Per Jesus’ teachings, how many Christians committed adultery, and are still commiting adultery by remarrying a divorced woman?

that’s not your issue here. God does NOT compromise his law with sinful people- yet your explanation of the verse is a bit extreme…

Your statement is an ignorant one. After he divorces his wife three times, it is the husband who cannot remarry his former wife until she is divorced from any other man she would have married.

am not sure if you are trying to fool me or just an ignorance on YOUR part :
**If he divorces her finally, she shall not be lawful to him after that, until she marries another husband.**2:229-230

This is AGAINST what God taught in OT and NT.

Divorce is not a game my friend,

i know my friend, but someone 1400 years ago did not know it but went against the unity and sacredness of marriage and insulted God.

 

[inJESUS]

…continued and end.

“And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell" [MT 5:29]

“And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into he” [MT 5:30]

“Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [MT 5:38-39]

“And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also”. [MT 5:40]

“Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute yo”; [MT 5: 43-44]

“It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement, but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery” [MT 5:32-31]
How practical are the above teachings?

when you love, you make miracles…because i love Jesus very very much, sin becomes absolutely abominable to me…and yes, even your heart and mind become pure…Jesus makes us a live miracle…how many? it doesnt matter…it’s a personal choice…
AND God does NOT compromise his Holiness with sinful people…a god that grants people their sinful desires is what we call satan. If Jesus the human lived by what he preached, it means we are asked to be like him…he gave us Heavenly teachings, NOT earthly ones.

I love to think that you are only teasing me. If you really like to take inJESUS as your “final” authority on the Qur’an, it is you call; I don’t think I have a say into it, it is up to you.

so am lying when i say that quran disrespects us, insults us and promises us Hell? if yes, then prove to all that InJesus is a pathetic liar.
Furthermore, i showed you earlier that i understand about Muhallil ( marrying a diff. man to go back to your husband)) more than you or maybe you were trying to do something else.

Jesus’ peace to all

 

[Booklover]

Joseph_Alison:

Miracles were intended for those who witnessed them, however many did not believe in them even though they saw them. A miracle has two objectives 1) to strengthen the prophet and be a proof to his prophethood; without miracle everyone can claim to be a prophet, 2) to be a proof against the ones witnessing it but rejecting the prophethood of the messenger.

If someone rejects the truth of a miracle because he did not witness it, he has all the rights to do so and God would have nothing against him the Judgment Day.
All miracles performed by the prophets of God did not last but for the life of the prophets themselves, people now have all the rights to doubt their veracity because they did not witness them.

A true miracle should be an everlasting miracle, and since Muhammad (PBUH) was the last messenger to mankind from God, his miracle should not be attached to his person, that is because after dying, he could not perform it anymore; his miracle then should outlive him and be everlasting for the next generations to see. You guessed it, his everlasting miracle was the true words of God, the Creator of heavens and earth, and it was the Holy Qur’an, the living miracle. I suggest you read it with an open mind –if you did not already- to have a flavor on what the book is all about; if you find it to be nothing, at least you would have an idea on what those crazy Muslims hold to be the Holy Word of the Creator.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Salaam Joseph!

A book cannot be considered a miracle because anyone can write a book! No matter how lovely sounding a book may be, it is not something unique. And even if a man is considered illiterate, that does not mean that he cannot have a poetic turn of phrase!

Just because Mohammed said it was the word of God, does not make it true! Private revelations can be used for fraud and I don’t think that an omnipotent God would be so silly as to send a final message that way!

 

[inJESUS]

Booklover:

Salaam Joseph!

A book cannot be considered a miracle because anyone can write a book! No matter how lovely sounding a book may be, it is not something unique. And even if a man is considered illiterate, that does not mean that he cannot have a poetic turn of phrase!

Just because Mohammed said it was the word of God, does not make it true! Private revelations can be used for fraud and I don’t think that an omnipotent God would be so silly as to send a final message that way!

muslims claim the quran is miraculous because mohammad challenged anyone to bring a book like it and because he was illeterate while the quran is full of poetry :

well, first, didnt mohammad consider poets as demon-possessed?
Second, the word Ummi (illeterate) in the quran always refer to people "who do not have a Book)…it does not mean Illeterate.

This is his challenge:

Or do they say: He has forged it. Nay! they do not believe. Then let them bring an announcement like it (mithlihi) if they are truthful. S. 52:33-34

but we read:
Now that the Truth has come to them from Us, they are saying: “Why is he (Muhammad) not given the like of what was given to Musa?” Have they not rejected that which was given to Musa before? They claim: “These (Torah and Qur’an) are the two works of sorcery complementing each other!” And they say: “We believe in neither.” Ask them: “Bring a Book from Allah which is a better guide THAN THESE TWO, I will follow it, if what you say be true!” S. 28:48-49 Malik

Say: Have you considered if it is from Allah, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the children of Israel has borne witness of one like it (mithlihi), so he believed, while you are big with pride; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people … And before it the Book of Musa was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book VERIFYING (it) IN the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good. S. 46:10, 12 Shakir

from what i understand, Moses already met his challenge.

But, we read about Jinn talking in quran or even allah quoting mohammad ( as muslims often tell me), yet all this in a divine language…so allah is attributing divine language to Jinn and mohammad as well?

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam Vickie;

Booklover:

Salaam Joseph!
A book cannot be considered a miracle because anyone can write a book!

Vickie, one of the aims behind a divine miracle, brought by a prophet, is to prove that prophet is from God, and consequently make it easy for people to believe in him and follow the teachings he is conveying.

In that sense the holy Qur’an is a perpetual miracle, the prophet to whom the content of the holy book was revealed does not need to be present for the book to perform its miracles on the hearts and minds of people.

Just by reading it, not even in its Arabic version, but in any language conveying its meanings, people find the One True God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and also a good place to rest their troubled souls.

People, then, feared even to listen to the Qur’an and they were masters in the language, they feared it because its magic worked on people the moment they listened to it, and it decreased their ranks every day. Their desperation was such that they attempted many times to the life of the messenger (PBUH).

People, now, continue to fear the Qur’an and do everything possible to keep people away from it, warning them saying it is a satanic book; full of heretical teachings and tales, but many of those who did not listen to the warning and approached the book with an open mind, they are so thankful to their Lord they did not listen to that false warning.

The Qur’an is the ultimate healing for what is in the hearts. It is said: “ **If you want to talk to God, engage in Salat **(Islamic prayer, in which, one is such a humility and obedience to God). If you want God talk to you, read the Qur’an”. And it is very true, God, the Creator of heaven and earth “talks” to his servants in His Holy message, the Holy Qur’an.

Vickie (and any other for that matter) don’t take my word for it, check for yourself if you want to; but I guess your answer would be: NO THAAAAAANKS Joseph! I have EVEEEEEERYTHING I need, and don’t need a book which did not even understand what Catholics worship!

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam Vickie;

Vickie, one of the aims behind a divine miracle, brought by a prophet, is to prove that prophet is from God, and consequently make it easy for people to believe in him and follow the teachings he is conveying.

how did mohammad prove he is from God? the Biblical prophets showed great miracles…mohammad did no miracle although he was asked for it to prove he is from God .

In that sense the holy Qur’an is a perpetual miracle, the prophet to whom the content of the holy book was revealed does not need to be present for the book to perform its miracles on the hearts and minds of people.

Salaam Joseph

why is it a miracle?

Just by reading it, not even in its Arabic version, but in any language conveying its meanings, people find the One True God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and also a good place to rest their troubled souls.

millions read it and did not find these things but found distorted history and plagiarism. Thats what objective reading coupled with knowledge does.

People, then, feared even to listen to the Qur’an and they were masters in the language, they feared it because its magic worked on people the moment they listened to it, and it decreased their ranks every day. Their desperation was such that they attempted many times to the life of the messenger (PBUH).

i dont think this is the reason for trying to kill him …anyway, this magic failed on millions…so how is it a magic exactly? when i read it ( i had absolutly no prejudice) i found nothing but boring repetitions and curses and threats…i felt terrible and felt that allah can by no means be a true God…no offence, but if the quran were a miracle, it should be a miracle to all people.

People, now, continue to fear the Qur’an and do everything possible to keep people away from it, warning them saying it is a satanic book; full of heretical teachings and tales

from a Christian/jewish point of view it is coz it teaches things agaisnt God/Yahwe

, but many of those who did not listen to the warning and approached the book with an open mind, they are so thankful to their Lord they did not listen to that false warning.

and many who studied for years rejected it & converted…so if God intended it to be a miracle, don’t you think it failed miserably coz those who were not impressed by it exceed muslims by millions? or is it that Allah blinded their eyes and hearts?

The Qur’an is the ultimate healing for what is in the hearts. It is said: “ **If you want to talk to God, engage in Salat **

(Islamic prayer, in which, one is such a humility and obedience to God). sure, prayer is an intimate relationship with God.

If you want God talk to you, read the Qur’an

”. And it is very true, God, the Creator of heaven and earth “talks” to his servants in His Holy message, the Holy Qur’an but why didnt He talk to the millions who did?.

Vickie (and any other for that matter) don’t take my word for it, check for yourself if you want to; but I guess your answer would be: NO THAAAAAANKS Joseph! I have EVEEEEEERYTHING I need, and don’t need a book which did not even understand what Catholics worship!

no , i read it when i was not religious…yes the Bible fills our heart with everything we need, especially God’s love to us …it’s not a matter of the many things mohammad did not understand, but it about the “spirit” of quran…maybe it gives YOU good feeling, but it gave millions a terrible feeling…is this what Allah meant by miracle? thx and God bless