Why does Jesus seem very clear on not showing his mother Mary any special Honor?

[robertmcbee]

I am going through the RCIA process, just getting started. I am trying to understand the main tenents of the faith first. The problem I am having is the issue of what my family, who are all opposed my conversion, call’s Mary worship. I was doing good at not listening to them until I read two Bible verses given to me to read. I read them in Catholic Bibles and they seem to show very clearly that Jesus wants no special attention given to his mother. The verses are Matthew ch 12 v 46-50, and Luke ch 11 v 27+28. Can anyone help me to understand the seemingly massive contradiction here?

 

[His_little1]

Without seeing the verses, I do not know how to comment. One thing to consider is that a Catholic’s relationship to Mary should not be based on glorifying Mary, but following her example to Glorify God. Starting off in Luke we hear about the angel, Gabriel’s words to her assured her that she was full of grace (not just a little but filled to the brim so to speak). This was because God prepared her for the task she would be asked ahead of time. We believe that she was the Immaculate Conception, that is, created by God through her parents and born without original sin. This made her without a doubt the perfect “vessel” to bear the Son of God in her womb. (This was all God’s work, not Mary’s) Remember too that her response to God was “Yes”, and that throughout her life she always was always obedient, even watching in horror as her only Son was tortured and crucified. When at the wedding feast at Cana, she asked Jesus to do something about the wine that was gone. Though Jesus started out by saying, “This is not the moment…” he ended up performing His first public miracle turning the water into the finest wine. Obviously, even Jesus the Son of the Living God followed the 4th Commandment. But look closer and you see that Mary’s response to Jesus was obedience also. She said, “Do whatever he commands you.” She was following Jesus’s will and giving us all last words to live by. This is in effect the last words she speakes in the bible.
In addition to all of this, remember some other parts of the story. When Jesus was presented on the 8th day as prescribed by the law, she was told that her heart would be “pierced to know the thoughts of many”. This is the basis for asking her to pray for us in our hours of need. She was always and still always calls the faithful to and to know her Divine Son whom she loves with her whole being. Also remember that at the foot of the cross, Jesus gives her to St. John as a mother and him to her as a son. This makes her the mother of all of the faithful as we are called to be her sons and daughters as well. We view this as a statement from Jesus himself making Mary the mother of the church. We need only to remember that our love of Mary is ultimately about loving Christ. She is the human connection we have to Him.
Hope this makes sense.

God Bless you in your RCIA journey through faith!

 

[His_little1]

One other thought, I have never understood this obsession non-catholics have with Mary. Sometimes it comes across as something close to hatred in the name of being totally obedient to God. I personally think it is based on misunderstanding and the work of the devil to confuse, conflilct, and pull us apart! If we remain true to the teachings of the Catholic church, we know Mary’s place and her part and we love her as our mother and the mother of all who love and follow Jesus.

…Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[cathlikrn]

let me start by saying I am not a theologian or apologist, this explanation was found in the Life application study bible (which is actually not a Catholic bible)

regarding Matt 12: 46-50, Jesus was not denying his responsibility to his earthly family. On the contrary, he criticized the religious leaders for not following the OT commandment to honor their parents.
regarding Luke 11: 27-28, Jesus was speaking to people who put extremely high value on family ties. Their genealogies were important guarantees that they were part of God’s chosen people. A man’s value came from his ancestors and a woman’s from the sons she bore. Jesus’ response to the woman meant that a person’s obedience to God is more important than his or her place on the family tree. The patient work of consistent obedience is even more important than the honor of bearing a respected son.

 

[jpjd]

Mt 12:46-50
*While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with him. **Someone told him, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak with you.” **But he said in reply to the one who told him, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" *And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

Lk 11:27-28
*While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed." *He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

Jesus is trying to show that He is not just a human being who belongs to a biological family and only His family is blessed by Him. He is more than that; He is God Incarnate who belongs to the whole world, or rather the world belongs to Him.

We can not help but give Mary special honor. It is her due as the mother of God. These passages are not taking anything away from Mary, at all. These passages are saying that those who hear and observe the word of God are blessed, and those who do the will of the Father are his children. In other words, He is more than just a human with a family, He is a divine Person who gives grace.

 

[sparrowhawk28]

One thing to consider is that a Catholic’s relationship to Mary should not be based on glorifying Mary, but following her example to Glorify God…
…She was always and still always calls the faithful to and to know her Divine Son whom she loves with her whole being.
…We need only to remember that our love of Mary is ultimately about loving Christ. She is the human connection we have to Him.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

let me start by saying I am not a theologian or apologist, this explanation was found in the Life application study bible (which is actually not a Catholic bible)

regarding Matt 12: 46-50, Jesus was not denying his responsibility to his earthly family. On the contrary, he criticized the religious leaders for not following the OT commandment to honor their parents.
regarding Luke 11: 27-28, Jesus was speaking to people who put extremely high value on family ties. Their genealogies were important guarantees that they were part of God’s chosen people. A man’s value came from his ancestors and a woman’s from the sons she bore. Jesus’ response to the woman meant that a person’s obedience to God is more important than his or her place on the family tree. The patient work of consistent obedience is even more important than the honor of bearing a respected son.

Aside from the truth above, Jesus was actually praising His mother in back handed way. He says “Blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.” This Jesus is saying, is His mother’s true Greatness. That she exemplified this virtue, not that she was his actual mother. For her virtue to outshine her Divine motherhood is staggering.

Lastly, Jesus would always protect his mother’s virtue, especially her humility. It is a human flaw that we seek the approval of others, but it is not compatible with the Gospel.

 

[promethius]

I am going through the RCIA process, just getting started. I am trying to understand the main tenents of the faith first. The problem I am having is the issue of what my family, who are all opposed my conversion, call’s Mary worship. I was doing good at not listening to them until I read two Bible verses given to me to read. I read them in Catholic Bibles and they seem to show very clearly that Jesus wants no special attention given to his mother. The verses are Matthew ch 12 v 46-50, and Luke ch 11 v 27+28. Can anyone help me to understand the seemingly massive contradiction here?

Regarding Luke 11:27-28, let’s get something clear… the woman shouts that the woman who gave birth to Him and nursed Him should be blessed… Jesus corrects her by saying blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey… what makes you (or anyone) think that Mary is not included… nay, is not first and foremost in that blessing that Jesus renders? Is not Mary’s fiat the supreme example of obedience to God that we Christians have???

I’ll leave Matthew 12 to others for now, and merely point out that when Mary asks Jesus to turn water into wine, and He objects, she overrules His objection and He honors her by carrying out her wishes. This is because Jesus was a good jew according to the law of God. To assert that He gave NO honor to Mary is to assert the heretical belief that Jesus was a sinful man. Jesus honored His mother, as was the commandment of God.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I think we have to be careful and look at these verse more closely. In the first, Christ says that those who obey His Father are His relatives. That is, He is (in some sense) giving honor to people outside His earthly family. But to do this does not require or imply removing honor from His earthly family.

That is, He is purely expounding the importance of obeying God. He does so by implying that this is more important than any pure familial relationship (which is certainly true). But He isn’t actually saying anything bad about familial relationships, or even saying that they aren’t special, but simply implying that it is more important to follow God.

No Catholic denies this. No Catholic would tell you that honoring Mary is somehow more important than honoring God - and would in fact tell you that the honor we owe Mary is ultimately directed at and because of her Son. So if your family is saying that this verse implies that it is more important to honor God than Mary - we absolutely agree, however we stipulate that proper and complete honoring of God implies honoring Mary because of her special and unique role in God’s plan.

In contrast to Luke 11:27, which the NIV butchers into:

"27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”[note: actually a poor translation, the woman blesses Mary’s motherhood, not her herself, but anyway]
**
28 He replied, “Blessed rathe[note: which is not to say “on the contrary,” see below link]** are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” "

I present Luke 1 28:

“And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”

(Also 1:42, 48)

Now, either Jesus and the angel disagree (seems unlikely) or someone is misinterpreting something in saying that Jesus does not think His mother is blessed. Given that the angel is pretty clear…

I had started to write out a fuller argument, but instead I will just point you here: deepertruthblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/woman-in-crowd.html.

It is fairly in depth

 

[robertmcbee]

One other thought, I have never understood this obsession non-catholics have with Mary. Sometimes it comes across as something close to hatred in the name of being totally obedient to God. I personally think it is based on misunderstanding and the work of the devil to confuse, conflilct, and pull us apart! If we remain true to the teachings of the Catholic church, we know Mary’s place and her part and we love her as our mother and the mother of all who love and follow Jesus.

…Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

I can only speak for myself, but I would imagine the problems would be the same for anyone raised in at least the one I was raised in, Pentecostal. I am good with everything the Church teaches mostly, but it gets drilled into your head a LOT about having no other gods before god and no idol worship and the fact that Jesus was sent as one of the reasons to be THE intercessor for us with God. The prayers to Mary and the devotion to her is really about the only stumbling block I have left. I don’t understand why if Jesus is our intercessor, there are prayers to anyone else. I didn’t mean it to sound hateful, and I am sorry if it did. I am just very confused about those verses.

 

[vsedriver]

the fact that Jesus was sent as one of the reasons to be THE intercessor for us with God. The prayers to Mary and the devotion to her is really about the only stumbling block I have left. I don’t understand why if Jesus is our intercessor, there are prayers to anyone else. I didn’t mean it to sound hateful, and I am sorry if it did. I am just very confused about those verses.

so, no one can pray for you? because if you ask someone to pray for you, you are asking that person to be an intercessor.

The prayers to Mary are the same as you asking me to pray to Jesus for you. To a Catholic the saints in heaven are alive and can pray to Jesus for us.

I can ask you to pray for me, I can ask Mary to pray for me. It is the same thing. However, if Mary chooses to intercede for me I think I have a better chance of having my prayer answered by Jesus. What good Jewish boy could say no to his mother’s request?

 

[robertmcbee]

so, no one can pray for you? because if you ask someone to pray for you, you are asking that person to be an intercessor.

The prayers to Mary are the same as you asking me to pray to Jesus for you. To a Catholic the saints in heaven are alive and can pray to Jesus for us.

I can ask you to pray for me, I can ask Mary to pray for me. It is the same thing. However, if Mary chooses to intercede for me I think I have a better chance of having my prayer answered by Jesus. What good Jewish boy could say no to his mother’s request?

This makes a whole lot of sense. I like it. I suppose I will never have any clue as to why those verses are there, but I guess I will just basically ignore them. I have to do a lot of that and just chalk up my issues to having to deprogram from the views I was raised with in this process. Thank you very much.

 

[po18guy]

Elizabeth, “filled with the Holy Spirit” calls Mary blessed. Mary, in her Magnificat, says that “all generations” - even the anti-Catholics among us - will call her blessed. However, as Catholic convert and author Mark Shea points out, “Mary looks much larger from outside the Church than she does from within.”

Do you have a copy of Catholicism for Dummies? Everyone in RCIA; every Catholic; even every Christian should have a copy. It is an excellent resource. It carries both the nihil obstat as well as the Imprimatur, and so may be used as a catechism.

 

[robertmcbee]

One other thing, so people don’t misunderstand me as I think a few did. I didn’t say he seems to show her “NO” honor. I said “SPECIAL” honor. It was just looking like He was trying to say that she wasn’t any better than any other christian, which would be a big issue for me. I was and, (thanks to the one post there I replied to), am again looking forward to having a mother of some sort. Mine was not in the picture as I grew up. And one that I can perhaps form a special bond with a mother figure that involves God seems like a great idea to me.

 

[Myqyl]

I haven’t read through all the responses so this may have already been covered, but :

Jesus is saying that Mary is NOT special because she is His mother… But that she IS special because she did the Will of the Father…It is not the act of childbirth that makes Mary special to Catholics, it’s her response in Luke 1 : 38

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 1:38[/BIBLEDRB]

In the two verses you mention, Jesus seems to be saying that very thing.

God bless

 

[COPLAND_3]

One way that comes to my mind concerning showing special honor to Mary is that God chose her to be born through, which that alone is a special relationship that He had with her that nobody else had the priviledge of. Of all the women in the history of the world He chose Mary to give birth to God in the flesh!

 

[Mintaka]

Moses was honored by seeing God and being allowed to live. Israel was promised as a special superduper grace, that someday again they would have a prophet who could talk to God face to face.

Mary and Joseph saw every inch of God, from His Face to His “hinder parts”, every day of the year for many years. That makes them greater and more honored than Moses.

And Mary acted as God’s Temple and Ark for nine months, actually touching God at all times, which makes her far more honored than any high priest descended from Aaron.

She also was a prophet and singer greater than Moses’ sister Miriam, but without Miriam’s bossiness and getting punished.

The whole point of the title “Our Lady of Carmel” is that Mary was more intimate with God’s will than Elijah or Elisha, and they were the greatest prophets ever in Israel (except John the Baptist). Like Elijah, she had to flee Israel and was brought back.

Sooooo, yeah, I’m pretty sure Mary’s pretty darned honored by God.

 

[wheels10]

I am going through the RCIA process, just getting started. I am trying to understand the main tenents of the faith first. The problem I am having is the issue of what my family, who are all opposed my conversion, call’s Mary worship. I was doing good at not listening to them until I read two Bible verses given to me to read. I read them in Catholic Bibles and they seem to show very clearly that Jesus wants no special attention given to his mother. The verses are Matthew ch 12 v 46-50, and Luke ch 11 v 27+28. Can anyone help me to understand the seemingly massive contradiction here?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8982065#post8982065

 

[centurionguard]

Aside from the truth above, Jesus was actually praising His mother in back handed way. He says “Blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.” This Jesus is saying, is His mother’s true Greatness. That she exemplified this virtue, not that she was his actual mother. For her virtue to outshine her Divine motherhood is staggering.

Lastly, Jesus would always protect his mother’s virtue, especially her humility. It is a human flaw that we seek the approval of others, but it is not compatible with the Gospel.

Beautifully said; especially in speaking about the Blessed Virgin’s Humility in which she very closely immolated her Beloved Son Jesus. Being given the title Blessed by the Angel Gabriel in his greeting to her in the Annunciation:

Gospel of Luke

"And in the sixth month, the Angel Gabriel was sent from god into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth. To a Virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph of the house of David; and the Virgin’s name was Mary. And the Angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.

"And the Angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for, for thou hast found grace with God. And behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call His name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of David His father; and He shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. And of His kingdom there shall be no end.

The better part of Mary’s role during her life was humbly kept hidden and cherished by her Son Jesus and God the Father alone in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity.

 

[TimothyH]

This makes a whole lot of sense. I like it. I suppose I will never have any clue as to why those verses are there, but I guess I will just basically ignore them. I have to do a lot of that and just chalk up my issues to having to deprogram from the views I was raised with in this process. Thank you very much.

Robert, I hope you will consider the following regarding the fact that Mary is our Queen. That is, in fact, what she is… Our Queen. If Jesus is our King and Mary is his Queen, then everything else falls into place and we have only to bow our knee to our King and his Queen.

There is no doubt that Jesus is our King. The whole theme of Matthew’s Gospel is Jesus and his kingdom; the announcement of the kingdom, descriptions of the kingdom, the establishment of the kingdom, the tearing down of the old kingdom. Jesus spends all of Chapter 13 of Matthews Gospel giving parables about what his kingdom will be like.

When the people saw the sign he had done, they said, “This is truly the Prophet, the one who is to come into the world.” Since Jesus knew that they were going to come and carry him off to make him king, he withdrew again to the mountain alone. (John 6:14-15)

The people around Jesus recognized him as thier King. It’s undeniable.

And we must always remember that the Old Testament is the story of God preparing his people to accept their Messiah, preparing Israel and the whole world to accept their King. And when we look at all the Kings of the Old Testament who come before and prefigure Jesus, we find a curious fact about who these Kings appointed to be their Queens.

Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, who sat at his right. (1 Kings 2:19)

Bathsheba was King David’s wife but was the mother of King Solomon. No one in the kingdom was higher than the king, yet Solomon pays homage to his mother and seats her in a throne on his right. This is because Bathsheba is not only Solomon’s mother but she is also the queen.

It makes sense that kings would appoint their mother’s as queen. Wives were often exchanged as part of a military alliance. Each king would give a daughter or a niece to the king with which he was making a military alliance. This was a way for a king to make sure that he had a person in intimate contact with the king with whom he had made an aliiance, someone in his allies inner court. But for a king to make this wife into a queen was to elevate a blood relative of a potential rival to a place of great authority in his kingdom, and this was too great a risk. Kings therefor, did not appoint their wives to be queen but appointed their mother’s to the position of queen instead. That is why we see Solomon bring a throne for and pay homage to his mother Bathsheba. Bathsheba, Solomon’s Mother, is also Solomon’s Queen.

The Hebrew word for queen-mother or literally “Grand lady” is Gebirah. We see references to the Gebirah elswhere in the Old Testament.

Jehu met the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah king of Judah, and he said, “Who are you?” And they answered, "We are the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah, and we came down to visit the royal princes and the sons of the queen mother."
(2 Kings 10:13)

This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem. (Jerimiah 29:2)

In fact, the various kings throught he centuries are listed in the Books of Kings and the Books of Chronicals, and with every king, the king’s mother is also listed.

• 
  *]In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, son of Nebat, Abijam became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Maacah, daughter of Abishalom. (1 Kings 15:1-2)
  *]In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, Abijah became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother was named Micaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah. (2 Chronicals 13:1-2)
  *]Uzziah was sixteen years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-two years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Jecoliah, from Jerusalem. (2 Chronicals 26:3)
  *]…and so forth.
  
  There are dozens of verses like this. God is telling us who the mother of the king was because the mother of the king was a queen.
  
  *A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Revelation 12:1) *
  
  We can argue who the woman in Revelation 12 is but the fact that she wears a crown is clear. Only kings and queens wear crowns. The woman is clearly a queen. The woman is described as giving birth to a male child who rules the nations, and this description is consistent with a king and his mother the queen. The fact that the woman’s son in Revelation 12 is “Caught up to God and his throne” leads most Christians to believe that the child is Jesus. The mother can only be Mary, and Mary is Queen.
  
  As Queen of Heaven and earth, Mary has been granted very real power and authority. As a Queen with real authority, we are right to ask her for help, and for protection, and for guidance.
  
  Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth is in the Bible. It is completely Biblical. As Queen of Heaven, all the angels inbow before Mary. As Queen of Heaven, all the saints bow before Mary.
  
  Shouldn’t we?
  
  -Tim-