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aemcpa
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God can use a lot of things that are not His will. That doesn’t mean that He called Osteen to preach the Gospel.
Why does Joel Osteen seem to be more of a motivational speaker than a preacher?
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ChurchSoldier
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Doesn’t mean he didn’t either…
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ChurchSoldier
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Doesn’t mean he didn’t either…
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joe370
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Man, I just don’t get all of that prosperity gospel stuff…:nope: He, acting as a preacher of God, is lining his pockets while those who support his supposed ministry can barely make ends meet? Very sad…
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joe370
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Where is prosperity theology taught in the NT? Perhaps I am wrong and Joel does amazingly altruistic things with his money, as a philanthropist. I hope so…
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aemcpa
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Irrelevant. You were the one trying to use the reasoning in favor of the proposition that he is called.
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ChurchSoldier
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and waiting to hear some Biblical reasoning to show he’s not.
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aemcpa
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Right after you show me where the Bible says I should embrace sola scriptura over the authority of the Church that calls men to preach the Gospel by the laying on of hands and the handing on of Apostolic power.
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ChurchSoldier
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Who said anything about any of the sola’s?
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aemcpa
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You, by drawing the false dichotomy between “Biblical reasoning” and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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joe370
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Sure God could use them. God can do anything. The big question to me anyway, is: Do I believe that God is responsible for establishing Joel Osteen ministries aka prosperity theology? Doesn’t seem likely…
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ChurchSoldier
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Absolutely not. Here’s the difference. All I am saying is that God can call people who are outside the RC Church to work to further His kingdom. From the some of the responses I see here, people seem to be saying “if he isn’t RC then he can’t be called”.
I don’t think that’s true and supported by the earlier referenced links. All I’m saying, is if someone does believe only RC clergy are called, show Scripturally where that is.
I’ll reference Ephesians 2:10 “10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. NASB” which says ALL have been called to work from God, ordained or not. Romans 8:28 tells us All things work together for those who believe. That means in and outside Roman Catholicism.
My whole point is while J.O. preaches a weak gospel message (and one which I really don’t care for), God has and is using that to bring people closer to Him. Many who attend his church will realize shortly that the message they hear weekly is pretty weak and will investigate Christ through Scripture for themselves. Some of those will fall in love with God and want to draw nearer to Him. And He used J.O. as the first step in that journey. That’s all.
I’m not criticizing Catholicism, or saying J.O. will be looked upon as Chesterton some day. Just that God is using his ministry at this point and time to touch some people.
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ChurchSoldier
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Ok. Thanks for sharing!Sure God could use them. God can do anything. The big question to me anyway, is: Do I believe that God is responsible for establishing Joel Osteen ministries aka prosperity theology? Doesn’t seem likely…
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aemcpa
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“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.” - Galatians 1:8 A preacher who does not preach the true Gospel handed down from the Apostles is anathema.
“Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.” - Acts 19:13-16 Paul had the Apostolic mandate; the seven sons did not.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent.” - Romans 16:17-18 Those who preach false doctrine are to be avoided even if their words are good and their speeches pleasing.
Not to mention the myriad references to apostolic succession throughout the New Testament.
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joe370
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Very true, and are we not to do as scripture says?
The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, “[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.
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Sailor_Kenshin
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To be blunt to one and all, this elitist ‘us-only’ attitude, makes the CC look clubbish, clique-ish, and drives people away.
You have no idea whom God anoints and whom He doesn’t. It’s not up to you to judge that, NOR the state of a man’s soul.
Bad bad Joel Osteen! Arrest him for not Speaking While Not Being Catholic! Arrest him for encouraging people! Burn him for a heretic!
Yeah. Isn’t that a wonderful example of Christian ‘love.’
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Kc906
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I visited Joel’s church here in Houston early this year, it was definitely different than anything I had ever been to. For one, it was setup like a rock concert in there. They put a lot of their resources into that part of their sessions, and in today’s society that goes hand in hand with the “feel good” message that he preaches. The time was split about half and half between the music and the on stage preaching by Joel and his wife. I really didn’t hear anything in their message about sin, and our need for a savior; which is the main message of the Gospel.
I personally believe that God can, and does use all people for his own glory. Nonetheless, God did appoint a visible authority to pass on his message throughout the generations (no, I’m not talking about the Bible.) His Church has not always shone bright, for she has had many sinners in high positions who have done immoral things throughout the years. But of course, “let he who has never sinned cast the first stone.”
Jesus never said that those that he will leave in charge will never sin, for it will not be perfect men in his visible Church who will lead us towards the path of salvation because nobody is perfect; ALL men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. As bad as things have been throughout history in the RCC, his Church has continued to preach the same truth’s that were taught from the first century. Just like the Jews in Berea were more open and eager to learn the truth from Paul and Silas than those in Thessalonia (Acts 17:11.) We also should be eager to learn the truth from the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth; the Catholic Church (1 Tim 3:15.)
I personally believe that God can, and does use all people for his own glory. Nonetheless, God did appoint a visible authority to pass on his message throughout the generations (no, I’m not talking about the Bible.) His Church has not always shone bright, for she has had many sinners in high positions who have done immoral things throughout the years. But of course, “let he who has never sinned cast the first stone.”
Jesus never said that those that he will leave in charge will never sin, for it will not be perfect men in his visible Church who will lead us towards the path of salvation because nobody is perfect; ALL men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. As bad as things have been throughout history in the RCC, his Church has continued to preach the same truth’s that were taught from the first century. Just like the Jews in Berea were more open and eager to learn the truth from Paul and Silas than those in Thessalonia (Acts 17:11.) We also should be eager to learn the truth from the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth; the Catholic Church (1 Tim 3:15.)
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aemcpa
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Who judged his soul? But when God takes on human flesh and hand picks 12 men and gives them the Holy Spirit and tells them that it’s their job to preach the message of salvation, and then goes back to heaven and leaves them to their task, then I will leave it to them and to their successors to decide who is called and who isn’t.
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pacloc
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You are doing a very wonderful example of Christian Love. Thanks for showing us elitists, burners, arresters the way. Your personal beef with the Church hopefully is your reason for your silly posts, but is not reason enough to insult the Church that is the only reason that the Bible exists, therefore whatever branch of Christianity you claim to believe exists. Being part of the Body of Christ is a club, clique, and should drive people away that have too much pride to submit to something greater than themselves. You also make some strange comment about no Catholic knows who God anoints. What does that even mean? Since when did Jesus say that people would be getting anointed by God randomly throughout the world? He set up the apostles and those that they chose with guidance of the Holy Spirit. No one can just wake up one day and say God has anointed me to lead others in what I think the Bible says. That is what is happening today, but that doesn’t mean God anointed them.
And no Catholic judges the state of anyone’s soul. You are just trying to throw punches at the Church with that comment. People are expressing their dislike of him simply because he preaches a false gospel, and confuses maybe would be Christians. If his false gospel and that of all other false teachers did not exist, the road to Christ would be clearer, and as Christians, Catholics want people to know the true gospel, not ear tickling.
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Nicea325
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Joel Olsteen preaches a wealth and prosperity Gospel simply covered-up with taken out-of-context verses.
Ah no! You are not understanding me. Again…why would God need wealth and prosperity to spread the Gospel? Financial status is not a requirement to spread the Gospel,unless you are Mr. Olsteen.
Joel Olsteen preaches a wealth and prosperity Gospel simply covered-up with taken out-of-context verses.
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