Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

[elvisman]

But what you are refusing to see is how that almost any old backyard religion these days also makes this same claim to “fullness of truth.” Whatever that is.

EXACTLY.
This is the tragedy of Protestantism - that every single “backyard” (your words) religion claims to have the fillness of truth that only the Catholic Church has.**

NONE of them - not one is ever called the “Pillar and foundation of truth”. That designation only goes to the one and only Church established by Jesus Christ - the Catholic Church (1 tim. 3:15). That same Church is the one that Jesus identifies - EQUATES himself with in Acts 9:4-5.

 

[Protestant101]

EXACTLY.
This is the tragedy of Protestantism - that every single “backyard”* (your words)* religion claims to have the fillness of truth that only the Catholic Church has.

NONE of them - not one is ever called the “Pillar and foundation of truth”. That designation only goes to the one and only Church established by Jesus Christ - the Catholic Church (1 tim. 3:15). That same Church is the one that Jesus identifies - EQUATES himself with in Acts 9:4-5.

Exactly Not. “the pillar and foundation of Truth” is not designated to one denomination; of which there are many Catholic denominations too. Rather; “Church” is used in a more collective sense to mean that our respective folds each have a share in this great ‘commodity’ called “truth” which binds us together. The “unity” of believers will NEVER be seen by everyone joining the same denomination; only in God’s written word, and what God says, not some Church.

PS I almost forgot. I know you will sound the war cry re my comment about Catholic Denominations; and that you will call them “Rites” and other related excuses, but it still means the same thing as “DENOMINATION.”

“A group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith” - Word Web Dictionary

I have personally experienced this exact definition thereof here in Canada.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

Exactly Not. “the pillar and foundation of Truth” is not designated to one denomination; of which there are many Catholic denominations too. Rather; “Church” is used in a more collective sense to mean that our respective folds each have a share in this great ‘commodity’ called “truth” which binds us together. The “unity” of believers will NEVER be seen by everyone joining the same denomination; only in God’s written word, and what God says, not some Church.

PS I almost forgot. I know you will sound the war cry re my comment about Catholic Denominations; and that you will call them “Rites” and other related excuses, but it still means the same thing as “DENOMINATION.” I have personally experienced this exact definition thereof here in Canada.

Please fill us all in what church you are talking about here! What other church has the fullness of truth? If it’s not the Catholic church then which church did Christ give authority to? By the way it’s NOT some church… It’s the CATHOLIC CHURCH my friend! The church that christ himself founded was around long before the bible was put together. 382 A.D. to be exact! I find your term " some church" a total disgrace!

Matthew

 

[elvisman]

Exactly Not. “the pillar and foundation of Truth” is not designated to one denomination; of which there are many Catholic denominations too. Rather; “Church” is used in a more collective sense to mean that our respective folds each have a share in this great ‘commodity’ called “truth” which binds us together. The “unity” of believers will NEVER be seen by everyone joining the same denomination; only in God’s written word, and what God says, not some Church.

PS I almost forgot. I know you will sound the war cry re my comment about Catholic Denominations; and that you will call them “Rites” and other related excuses, but it still means the same thing as “DENOMINATION.” I have personally experienced this exact definition thereof here in Canada.

WRONG**. **
**There WERE NO other “folds” that were considered a part of the Church in the firs centuries of its existence. These “other folds” were ALWAYS challenged as – and condemned – as heretical sects. **
***Pelagianism, Gnosticism, Arianism, Nestorianism, Donatism ***– take your pick.

---

Christ’s only Church is not a denomination.
Denominations (or “name designations”*) came later, during the Protestant Reformation (Revolt) in order to further separate from the Catholic Church. This is a matter of historical fact – not angry opinion.*

---

**PS - **There are Catholic denominations?
Name one.

 

[CMatt25]

Please fill us all in what church you are talking about here! What other church has the fullness of truth? If it’s not the Catholic church then which church did Christ give authority to? By the way it’s NOT some church… It’s the CATHOLIC CHURCH my friend! The church that christ himself founded was around long before the bible was put together. 382 A.D. to be exact! I find your term " some church" a total disgrace!

Matthew

382 to be exact? You do realize this was approx 350 yrs after Christ?

 

[elvisman]

382 to be exact? You do realize this was approx 350 yrs after Christ?

He was referring to when the Bible was declared canonical by the Catholic Church.
Council of Rome - 382 A.D.

The Catholic Church was born at Pentecost (right after Jesus ascended to heaven).

 

[guanophore]

all Churches, in the same collective sense, are His Church. If more people would accept this Biblical idea, there would be a lot less fighting over turf and authority.

No, 101, this is not the case. You are suffering from a deficient concept of the Church.

Your idea is not biblical, on the contrary, departs from the scriptural testimony that there is only one Church, and that Jesus gave His authority to it. Departing from the truth may reduce conflict, but it does not serve the purpose of God.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t know why one would hate the Catholic Church, so long as they are properly informed. Like any organization or Church it has it’s flaws, but I think misinformation is worse than any culprit.

The Church is much more than any “human organization”, which is why she is infallible. You are suffering from a deficient view of the Church as well.

 

[guanophore]

Well at the risk of also being proclaimed an ignorant hater, I :tiphat: to your last sentence.

I don’t think you are a hater, Matt, though some of your ideas are non-Catholic. Ignorant may apply, because if you think that what Prot101 wrote is biblical then you are lacking in knowledge.

 

[ccolley]

**

Luther had to revolt**-look at the horrific things the Catholic Church was teaching.

Admittedly, in Luther’s time, there were some problems within the Church…selling of indulgences, simony and nepotism. However, the Church had begun the process of reform prior to Luther’s schismatic actions. He didn’t HAVE to break away from the Church entirely…There were many things politically and historically that went into Luther’s revolt. He DID NOT have to revolt…the truth is that the Church wasn’t changing fast enough for him. Once he did revolt, he became his own authority as far as interpretation of scripture is concerned. He rejected the Catholic cannon of Scripture (the OT that Jesus and the Early Christian Church used AND the same cannon that HE used to study Scripture for the years that he was a Catholic priest!). In all those years as a priest you would think that he would have objected to the Church’s use of the Septuagint…it was only at the time of his complete break with the Church that he rejected the Septuagint. Despite all of her “problems” the Church never strayed from Christ’s teachings. This was true back then and is equally true today.
CC
[SIGN]I love my Papal Papa! [/SIGN]

 

[CMatt25]

He was referring to when the Bible was declared canonical by the Catholic Church.
Council of Rome - 382 A.D.

The Catholic Church was born at Pentecost (right after Jesus ascended to heaven).

Thank u Elvis. I didn’t think a Catholic would say Christ’s Church had only been around since 382.

 

[CMatt25]

I don’t think you are a hater, Matt, though some of your ideas are non-Catholic. Ignorant may apply, because if you think that what Prot101 wrote is biblical then you are lacking in knowledge.

Guan, 101 wrote: “There is no reference to a specific denomination; rather, all Churches, in the same collective sense, are His Church. If more people would accept this Biblical idea, there would be a lot less fighting over turf and authority.”

I tipped my hat to his last sentence. There would be less fighting. I don’t see any denomination mentioned. So no I am not ignorant. I understand the CC interprets the Church as the CC and others interpret the Church as the universal body of believers. Rather than lacking, I have knowledge of both.

 

[elvisman]

Guan, 101 wrote: “There is no reference to a specific denomination; rather, all Churches, in the same collective sense, are His Church. If more people would accept this Biblical idea, there would be a lot less fighting over turf and authority.”

I tipped my hat to his last sentence. There would be less fighting. I don’t see any denomination mentioned. So no I am not ignorant. I understand the CC interprets the Church as the CC and others interpret the Church as the universal body of believers. Rather than lacking, I have knowledge of both.

**Question - Do you hold the writings of the Early Church in any regard? The reason I ask is because they point to the Church - Christ’s ONLY Church being called “Catholic” from the beginning - while St. John the Apostle was still alive. If it were not the “Catholic Church” - he would have told them to stop calling it that. **

The Bible is clear on what being a member of that Church means - and it doesn’t mean to simply be a believer, in the sense that Protestants claim.
"Belief", according to the New Testament is to surrender oneself yto go - following ALL of the teachings of Christ as passed on by the Church (1 Tim. 3:15).

It is also to live according to the Traditions (not just the written word) handed down by the Apostles (2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 1:12-14)**.****

---

Just something to think about.

 

[elvisman]

Luther had to revolt-look at the horrific things the Catholic Church was teaching.

What horrible things was the Church teaching that Luther had to revolt?
Please enlighten us . . .

 

[CMatt25]

Question - Do you hold the writings of the Early Church in any regard? The reason I ask is because they point to the Church - Christ’s ONLY Church being called “Catholic” from the beginning - while St. John the Apostle was still alive. If it were not the “Catholic Church” - he would have told them to stop calling it that.

In any regard or to the regard of Scripture? But the Catholic Encyclopedia must be wrong. Here’s what it says:

"John had been thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil before the Porta Latina at Rome without suffering injury. After Domitian’s death the Apostle returned to Ephesus during the reign of Trajan, and at Ephesus he died about A.D. 100 at a great age.

"The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110

 

[schaick]

Admittedly, in Luther’s time, there were some problems within the Church…selling of indulgences, simony and nepotism. However, the Church had begun the process of reform prior to Luther’s schismatic actions. He didn’t HAVE to break away from the Church entirely…There were many things politically and historically that went into Luther’s revolt. He DID NOT have to revolt…[/SIGN]

Not just Luther’s time:

John Wycliffe’s

John Hus’- burned alive for desiring permission be given to allow people to read the Bible in their own language.

Learn something new everyday- I did not realize this:
John Hus’ dying words, “In 100 years, God will raise up a man whose calls for reform cannot be suppressed. Luther came around 100 years later.

Luther was excomunicated. He asked to be proven wrong by Scripture and no one could.

 

[schaick]

After reading through many posts on this thread it seems as though a lot of people actually don’t disagree with the “Catholic Church” but disagree with everything a Church teaches. People mention that because of the bible they are saved and the bible is God. It’s kind of sad when someone puts the bible above Christ and his Church. And could someone point out to me in the bible where is say’s that we need the bible to be saved?

I’m not sure anyone said that the Bible is GOD-but it is HIS Word written, as opposed to HIS WORD Incarnate. Can you link to that message?

Can you show where you think someone has put GOD’s written Word above GOD’s WORD incarnate?

You are not understanding it is simply the Bible GOD’s Word were the requirements for our salvation are spelled out.

The Holy Bible is our only concrete evidence from GOD that there was and is a plan for our salvation.

It is where we find what we need to do to be saved.

 

[elvisman]

In any regard or to the regard of Scripture? But the Catholic Encyclopedia must be wrong. Here’s what it says:

"John had been thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil before the Porta Latina at Rome without suffering injury. After Domitian’s death the Apostle returned to Ephesus during the reign of Trajan, and at Ephesus he died about A.D. 100 at a great age.

"The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110

The earliest LETTER we have that names the Church Catholic is from Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans. He speaks of the Catholic Church as if it is an already long-established term.

---

**He didn’t invent the name as he wrote the letter. If he had – the Smyrnaeans would not have known what the heck he was talking about. It is clear that the name, “Catholic Church” had been around for some time when he wrote this letter.

As for John - dates of his death are only speculated - not confirmed.**

 

[schaick]

Thinking further about it , if it is true that the CC is hated.

The Church believes it has the full Truth and we claim it in no uncertain terms. The hate question , may stem from the fact that no one likes to hear that they do not possess the fullness of what is to be believed. That they could possibly fall short of what is true. Some cannot accept the possibility that their faith has less than the completeness of Jesus’ revelation. So they refuse to even consider what we say is truth and dismiss us as nothing. Light, Truth and peace. Carlan

I have asked this over and over:

What traditions do I need for my salvation that are not in the Holy Bible?

Show us what traditions the Catholic Church has that my Church doesn’t have.

Then show us how those tradtions were passed down through all the Popes from Peter.

 

[elvisman]

I’m not sure anyone said that the Bible is GOD-but it is HIS Word written, as opposed to HIS WORD Incarnate. Can you link to that message?

Can you show where you think someone has put GOD’s written Word above GOD’s WORD incarnate?

You are not understanding it is simply the Bible GOD’s Word were the requirements for our salvation are spelled out.

The Holy Bible is our only concrete evidence from GOD that there was and is a plan for our salvation.

It is where we find what we need to do to be saved.

Tell me what you make of the following passages:

Matt. 16:15-19
**He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” **
**Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” **
**Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. **
***And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. ***
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Matt. 18:15-18

**"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. **
**If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ **
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:21-23

**(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” **
**And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. **
**Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” **

1 Tim. 3:15

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.**