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tweetymom
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Yes it is all truths are in the Bible.
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tweetymom
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None friend all are in God’s Holy word the Bible.
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schaick
Guest
For me it is your thinking that your Church has the only authority-sorry but as I see it, it is an arrogance.
Now you are saying we are lacking because we don’t want to do anything extra for GOD.
You would be amazed at how similar my Church service is to your Catholic service.
Well yes if it is a false or man-made tradition bordering on questionable actions.
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schaick
Guest
My Church does hold onto all the teachings of the Apostles.You’re absolutely right:
God’s word IS completely sufficient. But his word is not limited in the written form - as you think it is. **The word of God includes Sacred Tradition **(2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Tim. 3:15, 2 Tim. 12:14, 1 Cor. 11:2).
Oh - by the way - Catholics were the very FIRST Trinitarian Christians.
Ummm . . . remember - WE came up with the term, “Holy Trinity” - and the doctrine.
Oh, I almost forgot, ummm . . . "LOL".
Again what traditions am I missing that are needed for my salvation? Then please show me where this traditions started?
2 Thessalonians 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 3
6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us.
2 Timothy 2
2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
1 Corinthians 11
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you.
LOL! The question for me is was it the “Catholic Church” or the “universal Church”
If it is the “Catholic Church” good job, well done, is it copyrighted? You see we the “universal Church” still have that teaching even though we are mere Christians.
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schaick
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If the church does not follow the requirements set out in the first part of that chapter can it be considered a part of the church Jesus is building?
See the part I made bold:
1 Timothy 3
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
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Vile_Servant
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Good. Please share with us how you are currently working out your salvation with fear and trembling? Thanks!
(Philippians 2:12)
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
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Carlan
Guest
yes,Schaick, they are in there, and you have most of them and believe them as we do ,you really do not have that much further to go to open up to the whole Truth of it. It has all been shown to you before by many, many times by different Catholics participating in these treads. How many more ways do you need? Please ponder, and then turn it all over to God for his enlightenment. God bless you and give you and all of us peace,
Carlan
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elvisman
Guest
Sure.
**Some of them are from the mouth of our Lord and Savior - Jesus Christ.**Here are a few that you have chosen to disobey:
Obedience to the Church
Matt. 18:17-18
**If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. **
Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
PS - your Church DOESN’'T hold to ALL of the teachings of the Apostles.
The 1st Century Document, The Didache (Teacings of the Apostles) contained many traditions that Protestants as a whole do not follow. Individual Protestant sects reject even more of what is taught in the Didache.
Oh - I almost forgot . . . LOL.**
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elvisman
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**Ever gonna answer post #378 - or was it too difficult?
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schaick
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Hey this is one we might really be able to sink our teeth in!Exactly. The fallacy of believing that God’s Word is completely sufficient gives rise to more than one interpretation to God’s Word. Using sola scriptura, no less!
Lutherans and Reformed Churches both believe that God’s Word is completely sufficient. They both use sola scriptura.
What happens? Reformed Churches firmly believe in OSAS while Lutherans firmly reject OSAS. So much for consensus on the most important affair of eternal salvation.
Luther’s revolt has to be thanked for such a horrific state of theological contradiction and confusion in the sola scripturist Protestant world.
Do you agree that there is only one interpretation of Scripture? Or do you believe the Holy Spirit moves different Popes in different directions? For instance at one time Catholics only received the Bread and now both Bread and Wine.
Or check this out:
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/BenedictXVI_new_limbo_heresy.html
By now many of you have heard that, on Friday April 20, Benedict XVI approved the release of a new document on limbo. According to news reports, this document teaches that limbo (the highest part of Hell where those who die in original sin only go) doesn’t exist. It concludes, therefore, that unbaptized infants go to Heaven. This document had been in the works for a long time; Benedict XVI officially approved its release on Friday. The implications of this blatantly heretical document are very significant, as I will discuss.
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, On Original Sin, Session V, ex cathedra: “If anyone says that recently born babies should not be baptized even if they have been born to baptized parents; or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins, but incur no trace of the original sin of Adam needing to be cleansed by the laver of rebirth for them to obtain eternal life, with the necessary consequence that in their case there is being understood a form of baptism for the remission of sins which is not true, but false: let him be anathema.” (Denz. 791)
*Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442, ex cathedra: “Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil [original sin] and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people…” *
I say there has to be one interpretation.
In what sense are both Reformed Churches and Lutherans claiming the opposite sides of once saved always saved?
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geminiangel6670
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I was online for my lunch today reading about bible prophecy and recent world events. I started clicking on links to different websites, and one of the places I ended up was on Jack Chick’s page. I already know who he is, and I am not a fan. Out of curiosity I click on to a tract. No wonder people hate the Catholic Church. This stuff is unbelievable!!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0047/0047_01.asp
:bigyikes:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0047/0047_01.asp
:bigyikes:
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Prodigal_Son1
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Roy5
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I’m an ecumaniac, as some might call us. We believe that religion should be a bridge and not a barrier among Christians - and, for that matter, among all people of every faith. Some might call me an agnostic Christian in the sense that I seek to follow Christ but don’t claim to know for sure all that much when it comes to doctrines. Don’t misunderstand me, I know most doctrines as taught by most churches, but I don’t claim to know which doctrines supercede which other doctrines.In fact, doctrine is at the root of our problem. Too many churches and too many people are thoroughly convinced that their religious faith is the one and only true faith. Without intending offense, I suggest that this marvelous creation is beyond our finite understanding, that we all probably miss the ultimate truth by a mile, I believe it was the famous preacher of years ago, Harry Emerson Fosdick, who said that he could only believe in a God he did not understand! I agree.
Code:
So, my problem with Catholicism and with fundamentalist Protestantism (including 7th Day Adventism) and Mormonism and the Jehovah Witnesses and Islam and others is that they claim that they alone have the full splendor of truth (as EWTN words it). No, I suggest that none of us has that. I have enormous faith in God, try to be a worthy disciple of Christ, but on such matters as Adam and Eve, Noah and the Flood, putting demons into pigs, and much more - myth, legend, folklore, or fact? I respect the convictions of others even when I so not share them. I can't believe that Christ smiles upon the bitterness, arrogance and pride that so many 'religious' people seem to have. My guess is that when we get to the world to come we will feel silly when we discover that we were far off in our ideas and that while on earth we were so eager and aggressive in demeaning those held by others.
God bless people of faith, whatever their affiliation and label. May God lead us to respect one another and the particular faith we embrace.
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CMatt25
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Yes Elvis you’re the one who speculated John was alive when Ignatius wrote to the Smymaeans and the Catholic Encyclopedia speculates about a 10 yr gap inbetween. But of course Christ’s universal church existed. Catholic being defined as such.
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CMatt25
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schaick
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I address part of that in the following:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6423280&postcount=329
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Prodigal_Son1
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St. Ignatius may have been a disciple of St. John. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:Yes Elvis you’re the one who speculated John was alive when Ignatius wrote to the Smymaeans and the Catholic Encyclopedia speculates about a 10 yr gap inbetween. But of course Christ’s universal church existed. Catholic being defined as such.
The term is derived from Greek, as used in the New Testament.
**Acts 9:31
(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.
G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.
kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.**
There was only one Church during the time of the Apostles. Just because the term ‘Catholic’ means universal, does not take away from the fact that the universal Church was the Catholic Church. There were not many denominations then.
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schaick
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Sorry now I am really confused! Do you mean the Sacred Traditions that only Caholics have are mentioned in GOD’s Word?yes,Schaick, they are in there, and you have most of them and believe them as we do ,you really do not have that much further to go to open up to the whole Truth of it. It has all been shown to you before by many, many times by different Catholics participating in these treads. How many more ways do you need? Please ponder, and then turn it all over to God for his enlightenment. God bless you and give you and all of us peace,
Then what is the beef why are catholics so against Scripture being the final authority??
My understanding is that the Sacred Traditions Catholics are not in GOD’s Word. It is some mysterious tradition that only Catholics have and follow that no one utside the Catholic Church has.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Nicely put because? Does it fit your theology?Quite nicely put :clapping:
That’s the problem of private interpretation. It gives the reader the liberty of reading scriptures to fit their theology, as opposed to fitting their theology to scriptures.
Scriptures tells us, clearly, that Christ established an authority over His Church. Scriptures tells us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth and the place the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known. No where does scriptures tell us that scriptures will do this on their own. No where does scriptures tell us that every individual should interpret scriptures for themselves.
Many of the letters and epistles, of the New Testament, were specific instructions/teachings to Churches established by the Apostles. They confirmed and went in depth on things they had learned verbally, through oral instructions/teachings from the Apostles.
There are many examples of a teaching authority.
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Prodigal_Son1
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You know, as it’s been explained to you repeatedly. There are many, many different denominations with slight to great differences in doctrines, all based on someone’s interpretation of scriptures. That places, what you consider, the final authority into a contradicting position. Which interpretation is correct? Which interpretations have been wrested by the unlearned, unstable and unwise, even to their own destruction.
Sacred Traditions go hand in hand with God’s word. To understand how, you have to use the interpretation as read in the tradition of the living Church. There are scriptures that support the Catholic Traditions.
The Bible being the ‘final authority’ is a ‘tradition’ that is NOT in God’s word. There are no scriptures to support this man-made tradition.
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