Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

[guanophore]

Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

I don’t hate the Catholic Church, I disagree with some of it’s teachings, but I don’t hate it.

What I hate is the **arrogance **in thinking that the Catholic Church is the **only member **of the church that Jesus is building.

Jesus only founded One Church, and the Apostles taught that it is Catholic. This is not arrogance, it is just a fact. Jesus continues to build His One Church, and all who are members of Him are members of the One Body. If you find this concept arrogant, then your accusation is against the Scriptures, and the Apostles.

 **Arrogance** in thinking that the Catholic Church is the only church that the true presence in the Eucharist,

There are some Catholics that erroneously believe this, but I think they do so more out of ignorance than they do arrogance.

 that only the Pope or Catholic Church can be visited by the Holy Spirit,

I have heard this accusation made here at CAF, but I don’t recall any Catholics making it, and it certainly cannot be found in any official Catholic Teaching. Perhaps this is a strawman?

that only the Pope and Catholics can interprete that Holy Bible,

I think that the plethora of Protestant ecclesial communities prove that this is not the case.

that if you are not a member of the Catholic church then you are not in Jesus’ Church, that only the Catholic Church holds the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, that only the Catholic Church hold some mystery authority over th Kingdom of Heaven, etc…

Since Jesus only built One Church, and there is no salvation outside of Him, then how can one be in “Jesus” but not part of His One Body? I think you lost me there.

The keys to the kingdom were given to the the Apostles and their successors. I know that people have a lot of authority problems, especially in America, a country founded upon revolt and rebellion against authority. However, Jesus knew what He was doing when He established authority for His Church. There is no mystery, except perhaps that He has given such authority to men.

The foundation of Jesus' Church - teachings and preaching of the Apostles we have it in the Holy Bible.

While it is true that Jesus’ teaching and preaching are part of the foundation of the Church, the Church was founded upon people, not books.

The Successor to the Apostles= the Holy Bible.  The doors of the Kingdom of Heaven have been opened.  There is no mystery or secret authority.

No, Shaick, Writings, however Holy, cannot wield authority. The exercise of authority requires acts of the will, discernment, and the ability to take responsibility. Scriptures cannot do these things, which is why Jesus gave His authority for the Church to people.

I agree, He opened the gates of heaven, and the mystery is that this opening flows through the authority He appointed. I agree, through, there is no secret. The very reason there is so much rebellion evident is that the authority is not hidden.

 

[CMatt25]

Take a deep breath elvisman! The purpose of the non-Catholic forum is to explore differences. If everyone who wanted to post here had to keep their perceptions of BS to themselves, then the forum would not serve it’s purpose!

Clearly this individual, if he ever did embrace the faith, has fallen from it. It is for such as these that CAF exists. If he is here posting, there must be a reason.

Guan, good pt. Elvis of course for a change was not specifically directing his venom at me in the post you refer to but at Ted. And I know I can’t speak for anyone else but on a non-Catholic religion forum such as this, I am not here only to defend the Catholic faith. My mission is to bridge any differences which might exist and by spreading the Gospel of love and the unity in which those of us who are believers share with one anohter. A unity in Christ our Lord.

 

[twopekinguys]

You may not realize this, but the quality of your relationship with God is not based upon your common sense, judgement, or thoughts. It is based upon His.

I absolutely love this statement!! Can I steal it? (In a nice way of course)

 

[PORATH]

Well; when the subject comes round to “heretics” and the like, one could say that Catholics also show “hatred” or they could say as I have explained above. I have been to many Adventist crusades; and the main topic at most of them has been Jesus. Your church makes the claims about being around since the apostles; so why wouldn’t someone dwell on the Catholic Church somewhat when explaining Bible prophecy? Believing that your church teaches unBiblical errors, simply is not hatred. I don’t know how you can say otherwise. You believe that I, my church, and any number of other churches teach unbiblical error, you proscribe and malign many a Protestant; yet I don’t see you accusing Catholics of hatred when they do this. I would never accuse Catholics of hatred when they say that my teachings are of the devil; or that my church isn’t really a church, etc etc etc…

Catholics are not “of one mind” as you try to say. One local newspaper here shows that in just one of a thousand ways we could do so. The views of Father Raymond deSouza and others show this clearly.

Your’s and other Catholic’s struggle to label as “hatred” may just be reflecting what is in your heart, not in mine.

I will not discount that some do convey hatred for other denomination, however, before you start throwing that accusation at me…please read all my previous posts on this thread…you are in error.

 

[Protestant101]

Jesus only founded One Church, and the Apostles taught that it is Catholic. This is not arrogance, it is just a fact. Jesus continues to build His One Church, and all who are members of Him are members of the One Body. If you find this concept arrogant, then your accusation is against the Scriptures, and the Apostles.

Well; at the risk of being called a “Catholic hater,” I will reply to this part of your comment. I agree, that it may not be “arrogance;” but I would add that it is definitely problematic, for many other denominations make the claim to be that “one Church.”

The Bible uses the word “one” in a collective sense/context in a number of ways. When it uses the term “one God;” it refers to the Godhead/trinity, as being “one God.”

It is the same for His Church. There is no reference to a specific denomination; rather, all Churches, in the same collective sense, are His Church. If more people would accept this Biblical idea, there would be a lot less fighting over turf and authority.

 

[Protestant101]

I will not discount that some do convey hatred for other denomination, however, before you start throwing that accusation at me…please read all my previous posts on this thread…you are in error.

It wasn’t an accusation; it wasn’t directed at one particular person; it was a comment on a point of fact that some people do have the problem of hatred in their heart, even while they are accusing others of same. I don’t see how that is in error.

 

[DorianGregorian]

I don’t know why one would hate the Catholic Church, so long as they are properly informed. Like any organization or Church it has it’s flaws, but I think misinformation is worse than any culprit.

 

[CMatt25]

Well; at the risk of being called a “Catholic hater,” I will reply to this part of your comment. I agree, that it may not be “arrogance;” but I would add that it is definitely problematic, for many other denominations make the claim to be that “one Church.”

The Bible uses the word “one” in a collective sense/context in a number of ways. When it uses the term “one God;” it refers to the Godhead/trinity, as being “one God.”

It is the same for His Church. There is no reference to a specific denomination; rather, all Churches, in the same collective sense, are His Church. If more people would accept this Biblical idea, there would be a lot less fighting over turf and authority.

Well at the risk of also being proclaimed an ignorant hater, I :tiphat: to your last sentence.

 

[tweetymom]

Well at the risk of also being proclaimed an ignorant hater, I :tiphat: to your last sentence.

And I tip my :tiphat: to you Matt, you are truly a dear brother in Christ. I only wish that everyone could get along and do Gods work in joyful union. There are so many people out there that are really hurting it would be wonderful if we could all come together and pray for a healing in ths world. God Bless

 

[Mannyfit75]

There Catholics who no longer practice their faith and they hate the Catholic Church. Their hatred is much more harsher than Protestants who have anti-Catholic feelings. I find these “caferia Catholics” to be more demeaning and shouldn’t deserve to be called Catholics. Like Fr. Corapi say, “You cannot be Catholic and support abortion.”

 

[tweetymom]

There Catholics who no longer practice their faith and they hate the Catholic Church. Their hatred is much more harsher than Protestants who have anti-Catholic feelings. I find these “caferia Catholics” to be more demeaning and shouldn’t deserve to be called Catholics. Like Fr. Corapi say, “You cannot be Catholic and support abortion.”

I do not agree with everything either but I do not hate the church or anybody.

 

[schaick]

Jesus only founded One Church, and the Apostles taught that it is Catholic. This is not arrogance, it is just a fact. Jesus continues to build His One Church, and all who are members of Him are members of the One Body. If you find this concept arrogant, then your accusation is against the Scriptures, and the Apostles.

Yes I believe that Jesus’ Church is still in the process of being built- ‘I will build my church’

Where you believe the one church is only the Catholic Church I know the one Church is a universal Church.

The arrogance comes when the Catholic Church believes it [the Catholic Church] encompasses all of what Jesus calls “my church”. The Catholic Church is putting a fence around something they think they alone are continuing to build for Jesus ignoring and looking down on all the other parts of “Christ’s body”.

I think that the plethora of Protestant ecclesial communities prove that this is not the case.

Since Jesus only built One Church, and there is no salvation outside of Him, then how can one be in “Jesus” but not part of His One Body? I think you lost me there.

I have through my Holy Bible been told everything that GOD requires for me for my salvation.

The Holy Bible given to us by the Apostles.

The keys to the kingdom were given to the the Apostles and their successors. I know that people have a lot of authority problems, especially in America, a country founded upon revolt and rebellion against authority. However, Jesus knew what He was doing when He established authority for His Church. There is no mystery, except perhaps that He has given such authority to men.

Today we have the Holy Bible to tell us what we need to obey.

While it is true that Jesus’ teaching and preaching are part of the foundation of the Church, the Church was founded upon people, not books.

No, Shaick, Writings, however Holy, cannot wield authority. The exercise of authority requires acts of the will, discernment, and the ability to take responsibility. Scriptures cannot do these things, which is why Jesus gave His authority for the Church to people…

WHAT? The 10 Commandements, GOD’s Word is the Authority. There is only one TRUTH, one interpretation.

There must be an agent to act on that authority- the Church is responsible for the action.

**Matthew 18 **
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

BUT it must be in agreement with GOD’s Word. Our and the Church’s application is lead by the Holy Spirit.

Check this out, sorry in my notes I don’t have the reference:

Binding and loosing
In the life of Israel, they had a court system set up to address the problems and issues that faced the everyday life of an Israelite. The largest and highest court in the land, was of course the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. But the smallest court and the one that truly dealt with the everyday affairs of the people was called a Bet-din , or “house of judgment”. This smallest court was comprised of two or three judges. When these judges met to hear matters, it was believed that the Glory or Shekinah of God rest upon them. It was for this reason that they were regarded as “elohim” or mighty ones. This will throw some light on another misunderstood passage found in John 10:34-35. They were called ‘mighty ones’ or elohim, because when they were in session, with the Shekinah present, it was believed that they spoken for God. Their decisions were the decisions of God. What they forbid (to bind), was what was forbidden by heaven, and what they permitted (to loose), was permitted by heaven. What they bound on earth, had already been bound in heaven, and what they loosed on earth, had already been loosed in heaven.

Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible

Matthew 16
19and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.’

Matthew 18
18`Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

 

[tweetymom]

Yes I believe that Jesus’ Church is still in the process of being built- ‘I will build my church’

Where you believe the one church is only the Catholic Church I know the one Church is a universal Church.

The arrogance comes when the Catholic Church believes it [the Catholic Church] encompasses all of what Jesus calls “my church”. The Catholic Church is putting a fence around something they think they alone are continuing to build for Jesus ignoring and looking down on all the other parts of “Christ’s body”.

I have through my Holy Bible been told everything that GOD requires for me for my salvation.

The Holy Bible given to us by the Apostles.

Today we have the Holy Bible to tell us what we need to obey.

WHAT? The 10 Commandements, GOD’s Word is the Authority. There is only one TRUTH, one interpretation.

There must be an agent to act on that authority- the Church is responsible for the action.

**Matthew 18 **
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

BUT it must be in agreement with GOD’s Word. Our and the Church’s application is lead by the Holy Spirit.

Check this out, sorry in my notes I don’t have the reference:

Binding and loosing
In the life of Israel, they had a court system set up to address the problems and issues that faced the everyday life of an Israelite. The largest and highest court in the land, was of course the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. But the smallest court and the one that truly dealt with the everyday affairs of the people was called a Bet-din , or “house of judgment”. This smallest court was comprised of two or three judges. When these judges met to hear matters, it was believed that the Glory or Shekinah of God rest upon them. It was for this reason that they were regarded as “elohim” or mighty ones. This will throw some light on another misunderstood passage found in John 10:34-35. They were called ‘mighty ones’ or elohim, because when they were in session, with the Shekinah present, it was believed that they spoken for God. Their decisions were the decisions of God. What they forbid (to bind), was what was forbidden by heaven, and what they permitted (to loose), was permitted by heaven. What they bound on earth, had already been bound in heaven, and what they loosed on earth, had already been loosed in heaven.

Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible

Matthew 16
19and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.’

Matthew 18
18`Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

Amen dear brother in Christ. I am so glad that Jesus is the head of my life.

 

[dove1967]

I really don’t know anyone who has said they hated the Catholic church. But I will only speak for myself, I believe the body has many parts and God gave us different purposes for our lives. In my mind as long as you accept Jesus Christ as savior you are Christian and thats all that really matters. I started taking the classes at Our Mother Of Perpetual Help and wanted to continue (I felt like I finally found “Home”) but my husband who was raised plain Mennonite (meaning horse and buggy, no pics, no “worldly things”) was not comfortable with it so I stopped going. I still feel drawn

 

[Protestant101]

Well at the risk of also being proclaimed an ignorant hater, I :tiphat: to your last sentence.

LOL, thankyou. I didn’t know they had the “hat-tipper” icon here. You taught me something new today. I will have to use it a little myself here from now on. :tiphat::harp:

 

[elvisman]

And that one Church is the Roman Catholic church?? Hmmm, my Bible doesn’t say that.

My Church doesn’t even call itself the “Roman Catholic Church”.

This was a derogatory term used in the time of Henry VIII who used it to define if somebody was from the “Catholic Church” of England or the “Roman” Catholic Church. It was easier for him to murder Catholics that way.

MY Church is called “The Catholic Church” - period.

 

[elvisman]

Oh come on Elvisman. NOWHERE in those verses does it say anything whatsoever about Mary being born without original sin. Come on…

**Sure it does. It is implicitly taught in Luke 1:28 where the Greek word, *kecharitomene, is used. *****
It is also implicitly taught in the comparisons to her and the Ark of the Covenant in the OT in the following Scripture references:
****Ex. 25:10, ****Deut. 10:1/****John 1, **Lk. 2:38
**Jer. 31:31/**Lk. 1:35
**2 Sam. 6:9/****Lk. 1:43, **
**2 Sam. 6:14/**Lk 2 38
**2 Sam. 6:11/**Lk. 1:56

---

---

You never read posts 279 & 280, did you?

As for the rest of my post - WHY didn’t you address my response to you in regard to 2 Tim. 3:16?
**"Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable (useful) for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness".

---

NOWHERE, does it say that it is sufficient. Oh, and guess what? He is speaking of the Old Testament. The New Testament had not been fully written yet.

 

[elvisman]

Christianity 101 according to the Catholic Church or elvisman?

GOD’s Word does not sufficiently explained the nature of Jesus.

I’m glad you agree.
**
No - God’s written word does not sufficiently explain the Hypostatic Union - where Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.**
If it did - there never would have been the Nestorian or Arian Heresies.
But, then again - the Protestant Revolt happened despite the written word of God - so anything is possible.

 

[elvisman]

I am not as interested in the number of people, as I am the procedure.

We see in Scripture they [no matter how many] choose 2 then they prayed and cast lots.

The second procedure where it is mentioned that people, laity were involved is from a time a bit later and not mentioned in Scripture but recognized here from this I believe Catholic site and many other places on-line:

newadvent.org/cathen/12270a.htm

the people all took part in it

Interesting thought you bring up - were women and children involved in the selection?

" A brief historical review will show how the principle of election by the Roman Church has been maintained through all the vicissitudes of papal elections. St. Cyprian tells us in regard to the election of Pope St. Cornelius (251) that the comprovincial bishops, the clergy, and the people all took part in it:
In 769 a council was held under Stephen III to rectify the confusion caused by the intrusion of the antipope Constantine. This usurper was a layman hurriedly raised to priest’s orders to render his nomination to the pontificate possible. To make a repetition of the scandal impossible it was decreed that only members of the sacred college were eligible for election. **The part of the laity was, moreover, reduced to a mere right of acclamation."/**I]

Seems that instead of taking the vote away from the people they would simply correct the nominating procedure.
My position was never against the fact that laity took part in it.
**YOUR **argument was that the entire congregation had a hand in choosing Judas’ successor, Matthias.

**A rudimentary study of Scripture proves you *dead ***wrong.

 

[AJTheMan]

It’s starting to bug me that such a morally bankrupt institution has been offering it’s opinions on moral issues for millenia now.

I’m not a foe of the church but with all of this is starting to turn me into one. I’ve never liked how much the church lobbies in government on moral issues.I understood, though, that this was a church trying to submit to a moral ideal, so I respected it. Now I see that it never had a leg of morality to stand on.

18And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades** will not overcome it.[c]

Hades won’t need to destroy the church. The Church is turning to Hades.

An immoral institution cannot offer advice on morality. It’s hypocrisy.**