Why does our Current Pope Support World Goverment?

[Genesis315]

There’s nothing instrinsically evil about international governing organizations. For centuries the Church supported emperors who presied over the kings and princes of other nation-states. However, support for international organization has generally come from the WWII and post-WWII Popes (Pope Pius XII and on). Since nations were ever “closer” together, there has been need of ways other than war for solving internation conflicts which are more likely given the “closeness.”

However, like any government, it must operate under just principles.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

In other words the world community cannot trust that individual states will always guarrantee the aspirations of man. If left unchecked, individual states can lead their citizens to catostrophic consequences. Therefore it is one of the duties of the UN to ensure that nations guarrantee the the freedom of the religious dimension, because only the religious dimension can lead men to justice and peace.

Thanks for the reply. Sounds nice and all at first, but there are a few big problems with that. If Individual states cannot be trusted, then what makes him think the UN ever will be trustworthy with their proven track record? To control the individual states is to take away their freedoms, because as you said they can’t be trusted. That is often the excuse of most tyrannical governments. The individual can’t be trusted to do the right things (In this case the Individual State), so they must submit to the global authority of the UN.

This is not a call to submission to the UN. It is a call to the UN to submit to the divine rights of man and to protect them, even if they have to protect them against individual governments who attempt to suppress such rights.

What ever made the United Nations worthy of this? The UN seeks population reduction, a world wide Carbon Tax, more power, control over all the Oceans, Seas, and anything else they can get control of. See the “Law of the Sea Treaty”. The UN has been grabbing more and more power over the years. Remember that even Tyrannical governments sell themselves to the people by claiming to do good things, like protect them from terrorist or some other made up threat. Sugarcoat it however you want, but the Pope’s actions here are clear as day. He is supporting an evil organization and telling all individual nations that the UN has some kind of authority over them.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation
This is not a call to submission to the UN. It is a call to the UN to submit to the divine rights of man and to protect them, even if they have to protect them against individual governments who attempt to suppress such rights.

What ever made the United Nations worthy of this?

You consider “the UN” to be a wanna-be supra-national legislative/interpretive/enforcement type government. So do I.

But the Pope CAN’T consider “the UN” to be that inherently evil thing, as he must consider it a meeting place of all nations whose goal is to talk out problems in the open.

The only power that the UN SHOULD have is the voluntary power of it’s members, and the rule under which it SHOULD operate is the aforesaid “Catholic Christian Morality”, and in as much as it doesn’t it is an evil institution which no good person should support.

The Pope supports what it SHOULD be, and not what it continually proves itself TO be. You need to use more discrimination in seeing the players in this drama.

The UN seeks population reduction, a world wide Carbon Tax, more power, control over all the Oceans, Seas, and anything else they can get control of. See the “Law of the Sea Treaty”. The UN has been grabbing more and more power over the years. Remember that even Tyrannical governments sell themselves to the people by claiming to do good things, like protect them from terrorist or some other made up threat. Sugarcoat it however you want, but the Pope’s actions here are clear as day. He is supporting an evil organization and telling all individual nations that the UN has some kind of authority over them.

Wrong.

So, are you a “Truther”? And is Pope Benedict XVI the valid Pope? Show us you have some integrity, and ANY credibility, and kindly answer questions posed to you. Thanks again!

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

So, are you in fact a “Truther”? Just curious.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by “Truther”, but I do seek the truth about everything.

Not answering questions, like making MANY obvious and easily fixed spelling and grammar mistakes, tells how important you consider your reputation and credibility to be.

If you judge people on grammar mistakes or typos, then NO I am not concerned about my reputation here. I am very busy and when I do have the opportunity to get on this forum for some interesting discussions, I am normally rushing. I am not a very computer savvy individual, so I am going to have my share of typos. I try and be respectful when talking about these subjects, even when I disagree.

The UN, which I hate with a passion, cannot be “hated with a passion” by the Pope. He must consider it for what it SHOULD be and not for what it demonstrates itself to be.

Nobody is saying the Pope should hate anyone or anything. I just don’t see how he can tell individual nations that a corrupt organization has authority over them.

Your paranoia, and anti-Catholicism, is what makes statements of hope that nations would talk and work together in a neutral “meeting hall” into “The EVIL Pope wants humanity to BOW as slaves to the NEW ORDER ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM”.

For a Catholic, you are a very judgmental person. I enjoy having good discussions with people, but all you seem to want to do is insult and pass judgment on me. Then you wonder why I don’t answer all your questions. I am not Anti-Catholic at all. How dare you pass judgment on me when you know nothing about me. I’ve been a Catholic all my life, and even if I disagree with the pope, I will remain a Catholic!

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
So, are you in fact a “Truther”? Just curious.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by “Truther”, but I do seek the truth about everything.

Truthers

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
Not answering questions, like making MANY obvious and easily fixed spelling and grammar mistakes, tells how important you consider your reputation and credibility to be.

If you judge people on grammar mistakes or typos, then NO I am not concerned about my reputation here. I am very busy and when I do have the opportunity to get on this forum for some interesting discussions, I am normally rushing. I am not a very computer savvy individual, so I am going to have my share of typos. I try and be respectful when talking about these subjects, even when I disagree.

That’s fine. I believe that you don’t care very much about your reputation or credibility. Most like for good reason. Were you taught in school that “neatness doesn’t count”, like so much of this intellectually-decrepit society’s people?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
The UN, which I hate with a passion, cannot be “hated with a passion” by the Pope. He must consider it for what it SHOULD be and not for what it demonstrates itself to be.

Nobody is saying the Pope should hate anyone or anything. I just don’t see how he can tell individual nations that a corrupt organization has authority over them.

He doesn’t say that!

He is saying that if you nations are going to SAY you have a place to talk to resolve problems, USE it!

I agree with you that the REAL UN is an evil ridiculous institution, as the Pope may well believe himself, but He can only call on nations to DO what they SAY they want to DO, and not just say they want “peace through talking” while never arriving at “peace through talking”.

When nations DON’T do what they SAY they want to do, they are shown up as the hypocrits they are!

When the UN makes demands that Dictators stop being evil, and then rewards them for being evil, THEY (the nations of the UN) prove they are corrupt and it’s more than “morally obligatory” for more moral countries/country to justly stop the evil-doer from doing evil.

The Pope does NOT want nations to obey a supra-national government! He wants nations to talk things out, and only make just conflicts (wars or trade-wars) with each other.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

That’s fine. I believe that you don’t care very much about your reputation or credibility. Most like for good reason. Were you taught in school that “neatness doesn’t count”, like so much of this intellectually-decrepit society’s people?

My reputation and creditability with whom? You? Your right!!! I DON’T care at all what YOU think. You act as if you speak for everyone, well you DON’T! I have had GREAT discussion with several people on these forums, so why would I care what you think when you have shown nothing but arrogance on this thread. I don’t care if a typo insults your “superior intelligence”. All you are looking for is finding ways to attack my character, insult, and criticize.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

Truthers

If you want to debate with 911 Truth movement, then go to their forums. I am not involved in the 911 Truth Movement, however I did meet several of them when I was working in the Ron Paul Movement. I found that they are good and honest people who believe in their cause.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

He doesn’t say that!

He is saying that if you nations are going to SAY you have a place to talk to resolve problems, USE it!

I agree with you that the REAL UN is an evil ridiculous institution, as the Pope may well believe himself, but He can only call on nations to DO what they SAY they want to DO, and not just say they want “peace through talking” while never arriving at “peace through talking”.

When nations DON’T do what they SAY they want to do, they are shown up as the hypocrits they are!

When the UN makes demands that Dictators stop being evil, and then rewards them for being evil, THEY (the nations of the UN) prove they are corrupt and it’s more than “morally obligatory” for more moral countries/country to justly stop the evil-doer from doing evil.

The Pope does NOT want nations to obey a supra-national government! He wants nations to talk things out, and only make just conflicts (wars or trade-wars) with each other.

The Pope Says “Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations”

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
Your paranoia, and anti-Catholicism, is what makes statements of hope that nations would talk and work together in a neutral “meeting hall” into “The EVIL Pope wants humanity to BOW as slaves to the NEW ORDER ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM”.

For a Catholic, you are a very judgmental person. I enjoy having good discussions with people, but all you seem to want to do is insult and pass judgment on me. Then you wonder why I don’t answer all your questions. I am not Anti-Catholic at all. How dare you pass judgment on me when you know nothing about me. I’ve been a Catholic all my life, and even if I disagree with the pope, I will remain a Catholic!

Yes, I do have a fondness for hyperbole.

But you’ve said that you don’t believe the Pope is due the obedience he is due from a Catholic, or due obedience to the Church.

Did you say this or not:
Originally Posted by ISeekOnlyTruth
I don’t trust the Church completely and I don’t trust the pope. I do believe in sacraments and in Christ. Attend mass and all of that. I still have much to learn and to research. I do pray that God leads me to the truth. Thank you for your support.

You’ve charged him with saying things he hasn’t said.

You’ve promoted various conspiracy theories as fact.

I’m very judgemental of what I’m allowed to judge, which is the validity of sensibleness of what people here present me with in their postings.

It’s good that you want to come to understand other people’s opinions about a topic you find interesting, but to propose as TRUTH your own misinterpretations of various things will get you a due response.

The Pope does not support World Government.

Now, are you a “Truther/Truther”? Do you believe in the “9/11 was an Inside Job” conspiracy?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
That’s fine. I believe that you don’t care very much about your reputation or credibility. Most like for good reason. Were you taught in school that “neatness doesn’t count”, like so much of this intellectually-decrepit society’s people?

My reputation and creditability with whom? You? Your right!!! I DON’T care at all what YOU think. You act as if you speak for everyone, well you DON’T! I have had GREAT discussion with several people on these forums, so why would I care what you think when you have shown nothing but arrogance on this thread. I don’t care if a typo insults your “superior intelligence”. All you are looking for is finding ways to attack my character, insult, and criticize.

I’m concerned with you being as credible a person as you can be. It’s in your interest to be credible, and to have as good, or at least as “authentic”, a reputation as possible.

That you take my constructive criticism as insult is the usual response of an arrogant ignoramous to those trying to help him.

I do care what you think as to my credibility and reputation. That I’m credible only as someone who knows what a typo looks like, and who appears to be superior to you in his intelligence, is fine with me.

That you don’t care about your credibility and reputation is your right.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

If you want to debate with 911 Truth movement, then go to their forums. I am not involved in the 911 Truth Movement, however I did meet several of them when I was working in the Ron Paul Movement. I found that they are good and honest people who believe in their cause.

“Ron Paul Movement”

Answers several questions. Thanks.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

The Pope Says "Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations"

The PROPER authority of the UN is as a place to talk.

It is TRUE that countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the opportunity to resolve problems by talking in the “talking place”.

But does any even-nearly moral country EVER act truly unilaterally? No. The US has NEVER acted unilaterally, for example.

The Pope does not support World Government! He supports talking about problems before resorting to more forceful means of remedy.

 

[JReducation]

Um… Actually his direct quotes day otherwise. You can sugarcoat it all you want but he said otherwise.

"Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations and weaken the broad consensus needed to confront global problems, Pope Benedict said on Friday.

Countries that act independently undermine the authority of the UN? What authority? Who made them the rulers of the world?

If you read the entire speech, which you can find on ewtn.com he said that this is dangerous for any one country to decided what is good for the world. Well, isn’t this what Americans have been telling our government for years, that we are not the police of the world?

He is calling out to the nations of the world, repesented in the UN to work in cooperation for the common good. The problem is not the Pope, the problem is individual’s who do not want to work in an international effort to make the world a world of preace, justice, equal opportunities for all, that guarrantees each person’s inviolable rights and most of all he focussed on religious freedom.

He insistently tells the UN that the nations of world must workd toward this end, because only through religion can man achieve God’s plan.

Now, if you want to deny that the nations of the world should work cooperatively and be guided by a set of rules that they all follow and that one organization monitors, then you are obviously going to have a problem with what the Pope is saying.

What you’re presenting here is the typical argument that the UN cannot be fixed and therefore should be scrapped. What the Pope is saying is that it must be fixed to insure a new world order, but he’s not talking about a secularist view of the world. He’s talking about the order which God meant for the world to have. He even goes on to quote Jesus and some of the Church’s great minds.

Not only that, if you read his speech, he reminds the UN that the whole concept of a United Nations was originally a Catholic one conceived by a Dominican friar who was a great philosopher, theologian and social scientist during the reign of Pius XII.

There is no sugar coating. The Kingdom of God is the new world order. It is the Kingdom of God that the nations of the world must make happen. No nation has the authority to unilaterally sabbotage this, whether it’s the Arab nations, Iran, N. Korea or the USA. No nation has the authority to decide what his best for the entire world. Therefore, you must have a world organization that agrees on these fundamental principles and monitors to ensure that those who are member remain faithful to these principals.

In essence there is a two-fold assignment that he is giving the nations of the world.

1. Make the UN be what it is supposed to be, an organization that works for man’s progress and freedom
2. The nations of the world must cooperate with this mission for the good of all, not just their own national good.

This is the Gospel message of soical justice.

Where do you see the Pope violating the Gospel?

JR

 

[JReducation]

I should add here that this positoin is not only John Paul’s. It goes all the way back to Pope Leo XII and to the encyclical Rerum Novarum.

This is the social doctrine of the Catholic Church. It has been this way for more than 50 years. Why are some people acting as if they just heard this?

This is not new nor is it a bad idea. Unfortuntely, the nations of the world have not gotten it right. They need the Church’s guidance to help them get it right.

JR

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

.

You’ve promoted various conspiracy theories as fact.

I believe my interpretations are correct. I left the direct quotes or links to the quotes I was referring to. You’ll have to be more specific if you want me to address this. However I said:

*Both John Paul II and Pope Benedict have on numerous occasions called for a “New World Order” and both **seemingly *support a one world government.

Seemingly doesn’t sound like I am saying for a fact.

I’m very judgemental of what I’m allowed to judge, which is the validity of sensibleness of what people here present me with in their postings.

You spelled “judgemental” wrong, its “judgmental”. I won’t attack your character because of that. We’re all humans and we all make mistakes. = )

Not everyone will agree with you on what is sensible or not. Doesn’t make it right to attack their character and pass judgment on them.

Now, are you a “Truther/Truther”? Do you believe in the “9/11 was an Inside Job” conspiracy?

I don’t know if 9/11 was an inside job, perhaps you should go to the forums over there and debate them since you keep bringing it up. Would it surprise me if it was? No! Government sponsored terror is not anything new. There were definitely enough motives for individuals in the government to carry it out. Did they? I don’t know! I do however support an independent investigation, which is the main goal that the “Truthers” are seeking (in a peaceful manner of course). The 9/11 commission was a fraud and was in no way independent.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

“Ron Paul Movement”

Answers several questions. Thanks.

I am proud of the Ron Paul movement!

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

What you’re presenting here is the typical argument that the UN cannot be fixed and therefore should be scrapped.

Yes I do hold that view. I don’t think the UN can or will ever work.

What the Pope is saying is that it must be fixed to insure a new world order

He is saying the UN has to be fixed?

There is no sugar coating. The Kingdom of God is the new world order. It is the Kingdom of God that the nations of the world must make happen. No nation has the authority to unilaterally sabbotage this, whether it’s the Arab nations, Iran, N. Korea or the USA. No nation has the authority to decide what his best for the entire world. Therefore, you must have a world organization that agrees on these fundamental principles and monitors to ensure that those who are member remain faithful to these principals.

In essence there is a two-fold assignment that he is giving the nations of the world.

1. Make the UN be what it is supposed to be, an organization that works for man’s progress and freedom
2. The nations of the world must cooperate with this mission for the good of all, not just their own national good.

This is the Gospel message of soical justice.

Do you believe the United Nations ever will be this type of organization? What if a Nation doesn’t want to cooperate? Then what? Force them? That doesn’t sound like a free humanity to me. Thank you for your response JR. I appreciate it. I just don’t have any faith in the UN or having a global organization that meets the needs of humanity. Especially with all the things the UN is currently working on. Like the LOST treaty or population reduction. Even their support and funding of the One-child Policy.

 

[edwest2]

What you like or do not like is one thing, but what you are capable of affecting is another.

Prior to the formation of the UN, the various wealthy countries met whenever they needed to. And apart from the UN, the various wealthy nations still broker private agreements. I think the thing people should realize is that a power struugle between the nations has always existed and those with the most money usually form policy to various degrees, and some try to impose it on others.

The world is becoming more financially interdependent. It doesn’t matter who is actually in charge, just who controls the money and other assets like land, minerals and physical things like buildings. That is why Mr. Rockefeller is an example of an individual who can exert an influence over events in different countries. Bill Gates is another example. I think his philanthropic work should be an example to others.

So, no, the Pope does not support a World Government but he does support the dignity of the human person wherever they live. Unfortunately, there is no money in helping the poor. One doesn’t launch a company whose purpose is to give money or food away.

God bless,
Ed