Why does our society show no respect for women, from either side?

[edwest2]

I think most non-White Americans would beg to differ.

I think my non-White American friends would strongly disagree. I still go to the purposely segregated black parts of Detroit. I have no problem buying gas there or doing anything. But my black non-Catholic Christian friend (among others) keeps me up to date with day to day life in the black community. It’s just as bad as the White community plus the poverty. A friend of mine married a Mexican young lady. I had no problem meeting her family, but they too are purposely segregated. And so he’s filled me in on a lot of things he personally experienced in that community.

Tribalism and more tribalism. I was pleasantly surprised while driving in stop and go traffic when a few smiling, Hispanic young men handed me “Get to Know Jesus” tracts. I smiled and thanked them.

Ed

 

[Irishmom2]

I think the OP paints with a giant, broad brush, and is encouraged by people who think “They’re all like that.”

I’m not.

My husband is not like that either, and neither are my grown sons.

And where I live, everyone (male or female) holds the door for the next person, and they usually thank the person who held it.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m not talking about friends. I’m talking about experiences in a wider community.

You can’t do anything about that.
That’s just life.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I think my non-White American friends would strongly disagree. I still go to the purposely segregated black parts of Detroit. I have no problem buying gas there or doing anything. But my black non-Catholic Christian friend (among others) keeps me up to date with day to day life in the black community. It’s just as bad as the White community plus the poverty. A friend of mine married a Mexican young lady. I had no problem meeting her family, but they too are purposely segregated. And so he’s filled me in on a lot of things he personally experienced in that community.

Tribalism and more tribalism. I was pleasantly surprised while driving in stop and go traffic when a few smiling, Hispanic young men handed me “Get to Know Jesus” tracts. I smiled and thanked them.

Ed

So we should go back to the days when a black woman could be raped without repercussion, a black man could be lynched for being accused of looking the wrong way at a white woman, schools were segregated, and minorities did have access to the same basic rights as white people.

Sure.

 

[Irishmom2]

So we should go back to the days when a black woman could be raped without repercussion, a black man could be lynched for being accused of looking the wrong way at a white woman, schools were segregated, and minorities did have access to the same basic rights as white people.

Sure.

Uh, where are you getting that from? Ed said nothing like that. You appear to be looking for an argument or something…

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Uh, where are you getting that from? Ed said nothing like that. You appear to be looking for an argument or something…

He said respect for everyone has decreased in today’s age, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses that blot out the rampant racism and misogyny from generations past.

 

[Irishmom2]

He said respect for everyone has decreased in today’s age, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses that blot out the rampant racism and misogyny from generations past.

Wow, you are really reading something into what he said that he didn’t say. Sorry, but that is very illogical thinking.

 

[pianistclare]

He said respect for everyone has decreased in today’s age, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses that blot out the rampant racism and misogyny from generations past.

This is a complete misinterpretation what he meant.

I’m in the south. Almost zero racism.

 

[ChaosGamma]

So we should go back to the days when a black woman could be raped without repercussion, a black man could be lynched for being accused of looking the wrong way at a white woman, schools were segregated, and minorities did have access to the same basic rights as white people.

Sure.

I love this. How dare he point out things that were better in the old days, I must correct his dangerous reactionary views by pointing out everything that was wrong back then. I’m sure Mr. West is aware. How about, and I know this is a radical concept, we recognize that human beings are foul sinners in every age but perhaps, just perhaps, past ages were actually better than our own in certain respects and it might behove us to look to our ancestors to see where we might improve ourselves. Ridiculous, I know, it’s so much easier to just tear them down as violent racist misogynists. Probably because of being so sexually repressed.

 

[DarkLight]

I love this. How dare he point out things that were better in the old days, I must correct his dangerous reactionary views by pointing out everything that was wrong back then. I’m sure Mr. West is aware. How about, and I know this is a radical concept, we recognize that human beings are foul sinners in every age but perhaps, just perhaps, past ages were actually better than our own in certain respects and it might behove us to look to our ancestors to see where we might improve ourselves. Ridiculous, I know, it’s so much easier to just tear them down as violent racist misogynists. Probably because of being so sexually repressed.

And some of us disagree that it was better, at least that it was better for everyone in that particular respect. Honestly I find the second part of what I said more distressing than the first part - and I don’t think the attitude that women are “at fault” for the behavior of men is a modern reaction or a result of the sexual revolution.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I love this. How dare he point out things that were better in the old days, I must correct his dangerous reactionary views by pointing out everything that was wrong back then. I’m sure Mr. West is aware. How about, and I know this is a radical concept, we recognize that human beings are foul sinners in every age but perhaps, just perhaps, past ages were actually better than our own in certain respects and it might behove us to look to our ancestors to see where we might improve ourselves. Ridiculous, I know, it’s so much easier to just tear them down as violent racist misogynists. Probably because of being so sexually repressed.

It really wasn’t better as far as overall respect for human beings goes. The current period has plenty of problems in that regard (abortion, apathy as a result of desensitization), but the past really wasn’t a golden age of respect that so many are making it out to be. And it had nothing to do with sexual repression either; there was plenty of sexual immorality to go around.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I don’t think the attitude that women are “at fault” for the behavior of men is a modern reaction or a result of the sexual revolution.

It’s much older than that.

 

[LightBound]

Come on people, it’s nearly Christmas. Yes, things were not as picture-perfect as we’d like to reflect on from decades past. I’m older than dirt and recall when a woman wanted to go to college, she was pushed into teaching or told to become a nurse via a 3 year hospital program. Women of color weren’t even encouraged to do that…unless it was to work in the 'colored people" or county hospital or teach at a segrated school for pennies. However, decent people still behaved in a more genteel manner than they do today. No one would think of dropping the “F” word in public as part of casual conversation, people were more respectful when out in public, for the most part. I think the OP and Amazing Grace have valid points, as does Ed. I think the member that said he/she hadn’t heard a Christian**** say something like that was actually referring to those who strive to follow Christ, not some man bloggers or others who like to think they are Christian all the while being condescending or chauvenistic towards women.

 

[Bill_Martin]

He said respect for everyone has decreased in today’s age, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses that blot out the rampant racism and misogyny from generations past.

There are plenty of things right and wrong in every age and society. Pointing out what was right does not mean we should accept what was wrong too. Saying we should treat women with the respect that was shown in the 1940’s (for example) does not imply we should also bring back segregation, or nuke Hiroshima again too.

 

[DarkLight]

I think the member that said he/she hadn’t heard a Christian**** say something like that was actually referring to those who strive to follow Christ, not some man bloggers who like to think they are Christian or represent Christian morals and values.

I have heard these kind of things said to my face from actual practicing Christians, including a (protestant) pastor. In fact I’ve seen them in actual real life as being a pretty common belief, at least the one that if a woman is modestly dressed she won’t be harassed.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

There are plenty of things right and wrong in every age and society. Pointing out what was right does not mean we should accept what was wrong too. Saying we should treat women with the respect that was shown in the 1940’s (for example) does not imply we should also bring back segregation, or nuke Hiroshima again too.

But respect is being boiled down to holding open a door and not using profanity in a woman’s presence. It’s nice, but it doesn’t mean jack if women aren’t given the freedom to fulfill their potential.

 

[LightBound]

I have heard these kind of things said to my face from actual practicing Christians, including a (protestant) pastor. In fact I’ve seen them in actual real life as being a pretty common belief, at least the one that if a woman is modestly dressed she won’t be harassed.

They may have thought they were “practicing Christians”, but they don’t sound very Christian or “Christ-like” to me.

 

[Xantippe]

I think most non-White Americans would beg to differ.

There is that.

 

[DarkLight]

There are plenty of things right and wrong in every age and society. Pointing out what was right does not mean we should accept what was wrong too. Saying we should treat women with the respect that was shown in the 1940’s (for example) does not imply we should also bring back segregation, or nuke Hiroshima again too.

My point on this is that it was often counterbalanced by how easy it was to ruin a woman’s reputation, even if she had been perfectly chaste. There were a lot of very strict rules on upper-class women that she had to be followed in order to be considered a “proper” lady. And women who weren’t considered “ladies” often were not treated with respect.

 

[1ke]

On the Christian side, there’s the constant refrains about modesty and how if women would just dress with modesty they wouldn’t be subject to harassment. Or if a guy assaults a woman, how you shouldn’t have been alone with men, you shouldn’t go out drinking or dancing, so on and so forth.

No woman (or man) deserves or “asks for” violence against themselves.

But some of our choices have consequences, and I’ve seen women do stupid things. I’ve been one of the women who did stupid things. I was lucky nothing happened to me. But it could have. Because there are BAD people in the world and they are ready to prey on the weak and stupid, the unaware and the vulnerable.

So, yeah, when a grown woman goes out jogging on a trail by herself in a secluded area at 11 p.m. and gets mugged or assaulted, she does bear some responsibility. Not because she “deserved” it but because those are the places that bad people lurk looking for opportunities. She’s not invincible and she lives in the real world where doing such things is a calculated risk, not in a perfect world with no bad people.

I don’t go out by myself to the mall at night because I have eyes and ears and I watch the news reports documenting the people who have been held up at gunpoint recently. I don’t want to be one of those people. I should be able to go to the mall any time I want, but that isn’t the world we live in.

Woman, man it makes no difference. Alcohol impairs judgment and makes you vulnerable. Clubs, jogging trails, and similar places are hunting grounds. Don’t be prey. Be aware of your surroundings, stay with a group, don’t go off with strangers.

There are bad people and they are on the lookout for those who give them opportunity. And they aren’t always strangers.

Flame away, but this needs to be said. We don’t do girls any favors with the feminist line that it’s only sexist misogynists who keep them down and unable walk down the street naked. There are 9 billion people on this planet, all fallen, and millions are mentally ill, under the influence of drugs, and millions more are just plain BAD. The odds are against those of us who don’t think like a criminal.