Why does our society show no respect for women, from either side?

[CountrySinger]

I think DL also mentioned being pretty curvy, yes? I developed early and am skinny but very curvy, and I think it does make a difference. Unless you dress in a sack, there’s no way to really hide your figure (not that you should have to), which can make your outfit seem more provocative than it really is. I end up doing a lot more layering than flatter friends, for example, but nothing non-drastic will shrink my chest. And then some guys are just jerks. I got street-harassed by migrants while 9 months pregnant.

Also the stuff about knowing better than to go into bad neighborhoods is a bit classist. Some of us have to live in or near them and walk through them to catch the bus or go to the store. I have to walk through one to get to church, too.

For me, I have to wear things that “break up” my top (layers). A solid colour (as in a turtleneck) makes my chest look huge. I get hit on more when I wear a t-shirt, crew neck sweaters, hoodies, etc. Graphic t-shirts get distorted. A cardigan with a different colour cami underneath looks more in proportion.

I get a lot of comments like “my wife is small, can I touch yours”, “I want to feel big boobs”, or just the slack-jawed stare. Or just men yelling BOOBS!

I thought having a child would stop the remarks. It didn’t. It made my chest bigger and in the words of one jerk “your kid shows you put out, so show me your ****”. And apparently I’m the bad one because I can’t take a “compliment”.

And I’m 35. And I’ve been cat called ever since I got breasts at 8. And I’m not getting surgery just because people are grabby. They are for my husband and I to enjoy. The greatest irony was that I couldn’t breastfeed. They are decorative, not practical.

 

[DarkLight]

I think DL also mentioned being pretty curvy, yes? I developed early and am skinny but very curvy, and I think it does make a difference. Unless you dress in a sack, there’s no way to really hide your figure (not that you should have to), which can make your outfit seem more provocative than it really is. I end up doing a lot more layering than flatter friends, for example, but nothing non-drastic will shrink my chest. And then some guys are just jerks. I got street-harassed by migrants while 9 months pregnant.

I’m definitely in the “skinny and curvy” category, and like you I developed somewhat young. I have noticed that a lot of women who are held up as modest don’t look like me. I do suspect that makes a difference - some body shapes are more sexualized in our society than others. Which leads to the perception that those of us with curvier figures are less modest, even when we’re wearing the same fit and coverage as a less well endowed woman.

I think I’ve mentioned it before, but I even got to the point where I was starving myself to try to shrink my curves, because I didn’t want to be a temptation to men.

 

[phil19034]

So we should go into debt to buy a car and move 2 hours away and my husband will never see our children during the week? Or give up a federal job to move somewhere cheap where he can’t get a job in his field? I think I’d rather deal with a few colorful blocks between me and where I’m going. Unless, of course, the busybodies are going to fund this.

Let me be clear… ***I never said this is what I think or believe. ***

I’m simply stating that some people, like my father have that mindset. They are coming from a viewpoint that is based on their life experiences.

I would never move where my parents live unless I could work from home 100%. The idea of needing to commute 2+ hours is crazy to me. But there are others who are willing to do that for the type of community they view is best.

Point is, they come from a DIFFERENT generation with DIFFERENT societal values. And calling them busybodies is a little harsh. Most of them say these things out of love for neighbor and not hate.

We should all do a better job of understanding how WE differ from other people and their experiences. Maybe then, we will learn from one another.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

That’s a long-term plan, not a short-term plan.

It also involves having a car of one’s own, which is a major project for a low-income person.

And remember, we’re not supposed to be going anywhere after dark or coming home late or going anywhere alone or coming home alone, and following those rules is going to cut a lot into earning potential. Also, if we move to a new area, how can we get that group of people to take us everywhere when we don’t know anybody yet?

It’s just unworkable. My uncharitable explanation is that the whole thing is set up to be able to blame women no matter what.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

Considering that most of the unsolicited comments like this that women hear come from other women, I don’t think it’s an effort to “blame women no matter what.” I think it’s more of a kneejerk reaction to societal changes that people don’t like. Plain and simple.

BTW - I would be interested in hearing what a Catholic Philosopher would say about the “Double bind” because it seem to me to not really be based in reality. The idea that its wrong for a mother to be mad at her child and tell the child that she loves him/her while being disgusted with their behavior at the same time is crazy. Also that some how telling a child to “leave your sister alone” can be confusing to them is also insane.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

I’m definitely in the “skinny and curvy” category, and like you I developed somewhat young. I have noticed that a lot of women who are held up as modest don’t look like me. I do suspect that makes a difference - some body shapes are more sexualized in our society than others. Which leads to the perception that those of us with curvier figures are less modest, even when we’re wearing the same fit and coverage as a less well endowed woman.

I think I’ve mentioned it before, but I even got to the point where I was starving myself to try to shrink my curves, because I didn’t want to be a temptation to men.

Just because you have “curves” doesn’t mean you are immodest. However, due to the culture of pornography that we have today among men, you might fit into a “fetish” or “fantasy” that some/many men have due to how the porn industry promotes the “skinny and curvy” body type.

It’s not fair to you.

Also, I strongly believe that the clothing industry does a terrible job addressing the needs of “curvy” women. They seem to focus on “runway model” body type, which obviously not all women fit into.

Again, not your fault.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Just because you have “curves” doesn’t mean you are immodest. However, due to the culture of pornography that we have today among men, you might fit into a “fetish” or “fantasy” that some/many men have due to how the porn industry promotes the “skinny and curvy” body type.

It’s not fair to you.

Also, I strongly believe that the clothing industry does a terrible job addressing the needs of “curvy” women. They seem to focus on “runway model” body type, which obviously not all women fit into.

Again, not your fault.

You’re right. It’s not our fault.

 

[goout]

It’s not really a matter of someone’s fault.
It’s a distortion of the good way that God made us.

Men and women are attracted to one another. That’s good.
But we are scarred with concupiscence and so men and women are at war with one another. A good thing is perverted. Women become objects of disordered desire.

Huge topic.

 

[DarkLight]

BTW - I would be interested in hearing what a Catholic Philosopher would say about the “Double bind” because it seem to me to not really be based in reality. The idea that its wrong for a mother to be mad at her child and tell the child that she loves him/her while being disgusted with their behavior at the same time is crazy. Also that some how telling a child to “leave your sister alone” can be confusing to them is also insane.

Well, I’m Catholic and a philosopher, does that count? I think the basic idea here is that at some point, a woman can’t live her life without being in a position of being “at risk” and thus potentially blamed for not taking enough precautions.

I went to grad school in a city where I didn’t know anyone. I was the only female in my program. I also was in a place where classes were often held into the evening - meaning I was heading home at 10pm frequently. I also didn’t have the money for a car. My choices were:
(1) Take a ride home from a male graduate student, who I didn’t know very well
(2) Walk home after dark by myself
(3) Not take evening classes (which would result in me not being able to do my degree)

You’ll note that none of these options are what would traditionally be considered safe options.

At some point it does seem like unless we live like women in Saudi Arabia who are completely covered and aren’t allowed out without a man, we’re going to somehow be at fault if something happens.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

At some point it does seem like unless we live like women in Saudi Arabia who are completely covered and aren’t allowed out without a man, we’re going to somehow be at fault if something happens.

And yet those women still manage to be sexually assaulted at alarming rates. Let’s just chalk it up to pandemic-level imprudence.