Why does Satan have to be so evil!

[water]

No, just my own personal experience I wish others to avoid. I like a respectful distance from the enemy. Sorry if I seem paranoid about the subject. Tim

Oh, I thought we had a bad conversation. Thanks.
It is true that we should keep a very far distance from the enemy; however, sometimes we reflect the image of the enemy ourself - so, he is nearer than we think he is.

However, I think I understand your concern somehow. The safe way to see his image is to look at the image of God. What is not of God is of the enemy. Let’s us focus more on God than the enemy.

 

[TOP]

Oh, I thought we had a bad conversation. Thanks.
It is true that we should keep a very far distance from the enemy; however, sometimes we reflect the image of the enemy ourself - so, he is nearer than we think he is.

Wow, I’m blown away that you said that. It really took me along time to get what you just threw out there. I was scared of my own reflection too many times. Thanks, Tim

 

[blessedstar]

Oh, I thought we had a bad conversation. Thanks.
It is true that we should keep a very far distance from the enemy; however, sometimes we reflect the image of the enemy ourself - so, he is nearer than we think he is.

However, I think I understand your concern somehow. The safe way to see his image is to look at the image of God. What is not of God is of the enemy. Let’s us focus more on God than the enemy.

Excellent post!

It is true we have all been satan to each other and to God, but we must grow Christ-like and to do that we must turn to Jesus and keep our minds on God and His Angels and Saints and no-one else.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[Jason_Hurd]

The most convincing argument I have seen for why it is not possible for Satan and his hosts to return to Heaven is that the choirs of angels, being eternal beings who are outside of time, can only make eternal choices. Whatever they decide, stays decided. Thus, while I may make the choice to reject God(and this God forbid!), it is also possible for me to later repent and accept Him again, as I exist ‘in time’. For an eternal being dwelling outside of time, their choice is eternal and has eternal consequences. Satan and the fallen angels fell instantly upon deciding to oppose God, and that choice is irrevocable. I say this as someone who once hoped fervently that Satan could recover his arch-angelic status(the influence of Origen upon my early theological studies); I now see that this is impossible.

 

[RoyJr]

The most convincing argument I have seen for why it is not possible for Satan and his hosts to return to Heaven is that the choirs of angels, being eternal beings who are outside of time, can only make eternal choices. Whatever they decide, stays decided. Thus, while I may make the choice to reject God(and this God forbid!), it is also possible for me to later repent and accept Him again, as I exist ‘in time’. For an eternal being dwelling outside of time, their choice is eternal and has eternal consequences. Satan and the fallen angels fell instantly upon deciding to oppose God, and** that choice is irrevocable.**

Excellent explaination.

“How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground, you who mowed down the nations! You said in your heart: “I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, in the recesses of the North. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!” Yet down to the nether world you go to the recesses of the pit!” Isaiah 14:12-15

I say this as someone who once hoped fervently that Satan could recover his arch-angelic status(the influence of Origen upon my early theological studies); I now see that this is impossible.

I can’t remember the name, but there was a heresy in the Church about this same subject. The heretics contended that “satan” was actually the ‘prodigal son’ in the story Jesus tells in the Gospel of Luke. The dark angel made his choice & can not have a change of heart. Jesus said “he was a liar from the beginning”

 

[Rawb]

Good is the totality of good, Satan is the total absence of good, therefore pure evil and the complete opposite of God.

I’ve always understood St. Michael to be the opposite of God, because God has no opposite; an opposite supposes an equality, doesn’t it? Nothing is equal to God. God is an uncreated source of good.

St. Michael however, did do the opposite of Satan. Lucifer said “I will not serve”. St. Michael said he would. St. Michael is a created source of obedience to God’s will. Satan is a created source of disobedience to God’s will. They are more opposte IMO. Both were even created good, because God cannot create something not-good (right)? They’re more equal to me.

Maybe this is off topic and I should start it’s own thread. I’d be interested in other’s responses.

 

[headhunter199]

In the end Even Satan will be saved. God can change all heart to him so why not the worst of the worst. If in the end God’s love can even make Satan bend his knee, then there is definite hope for the rest of us. God love everyone and everything he created and since he created Satan (an angel), why wouldn’t he want him to come home in the end?

 

[TOP]

In the end Even Satan will be saved. God can change all heart to him so why not the worst of the worst. If in the end God’s love can even make Satan bend his knee, then there is definite hope for the rest of us. God love everyone and everything he created and since he created Satan (an angel), why wouldn’t he want him to come home in the end?

Genesis 1:14 And the Lord God said to the serpent: Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life. 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

The Apocalyspe of Saint John 20:9 And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast 10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Bubble]

I’ve always understood St. Michael to be the opposite of God, because God has no opposite; an opposite supposes an equality, doesn’t it? Nothing is equal to God. God is an uncreated source of good.

St. Michael however, did do the opposite of Satan. Lucifer said “I will not serve”. St. Michael said he would. St. Michael is a created source of obedience to God’s will. Satan is a created source of disobedience to God’s will. They are more opposte IMO. Both were even created good, because God cannot create something not-good (right)? They’re more equal to me.

Maybe this is off topic and I should start it’s own thread. I’d be interested in other’s responses.

As I was reading through the posts, I was going to respond to the statement that Satan is the complete opposite of God, but I see you beat me too it. Well said.

He is not the complete opposite. Satan is a creature and too below God to even be compared to Him. Satan is not all-knowing or all-powerful. He can create illusions, but he cannot create matter out of nothing. People should not be foolish enough to trifle with fallen angels, but they should rest confidant, knowing that God is in control.

Fallen angels are evil and have already made their final choice. Similar to what happens to people at death . . . their past deeds determine where they spend eternity. The test is over, the time for repentance is over and their fate is stone. At death, either they love God or they don’t. Either they want to be with Him forever or they want to reject Him forever. Satan’s final choice has already been made and He has chosen separation from God. He does not want to be with God. To be forced to be with WHOM he hates . . . his vileness next to the beauty and glory of God . . . darkness contrasted against the light . . . would cause the damned even more suffering than they endure now. Hell, for those who hate God, may actually be a more merciful place than heaven would be for them. The devil will never love God and he will never repent. Heaven is closed to him . . . and he would not want to go, even if given the chance . . . because Heaven is an immersion in the Wonders and Glories of God, Whom he hates.

The bible regularly speaks of the eternal fires of hell – where the worm dies not. So, there is no reason to believe that it will ever be emptied of the souls of the damned.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Also, I’ve read that St. Jerome, Augustine, and a few others Church fathers believed one day Satan, Sammael, will return to God. What fdoes the church say about this?>>

The only one who taught this was Origen, and it’s one of his propositions that was explicitly condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

Some say that St. Gregory of Nyssa taught universalism, but later of his writings repudiate the idea.

 

[TOP]

<<Also, I’ve read that St. Jerome, Augustine, and a few others Church fathers believed one day Satan, Sammael, will return to God. What fdoes the church say about this?>>

The only one who taught this was Origen, and it’s one of his propositions that was explicitly condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

Some say that St. Gregory of Nyssa taught universalism, but later of his writings repudiate the idea.

Stick around in the spirituality area a while. I need some schooling . Tim

 

[Coreopisis]

As I was reading through the posts, I was going to respond to the statement that Satan is the complete opposite of God, but I see you beat me too it. Well said.

He is not the complete opposite. Satan is a creature and too below God to even be compared to Him. Satan is not all-knowing or all-powerful. He can create illusions, but he cannot create matter out of nothing. People should not be foolish enough to trifle with fallen angels, but they should rest confidant, knowing that God is in control.

Fallen angels are evil and have already made their final choice. Similar to what happens to people at death . . . their past deeds determine where they spend eternity. The test is over, the time for repentance is over and their fate is stone. At death, either they love God or they don’t. Either they want to be with Him forever or they want to reject Him forever.

Wow I too was going to respond to a few things as I read through this thread today but you beat me to it. I just want to add a tidbit to what you said.

What the previous poster said made alot of sense to me about spirits being eternal make eternal choices. I guess that is another gift we have been given as humans which is time and the ability to change our minds and our wills while we are here. We have been given time to decide what we want to do with our own free will. But that time would only exist with our physical bodies. After they are gone our time is up.

No wonder we are under spiritual attacks. We are sort of the last frontier, or the unclaimed land. huh

 

[Writer]

I have never read any Saint say any such thing. Do you have some link that will show this?

This is like saying satan wasn’t such a bad guy afterall, he’ll make good in the end. I find it ludicrous.

It is contrary to Sacred Scripture. Sacred Scripture tells us that Jesus saw satan fall like lightening from heaven, that he always was liar and a murderer from the beginning and that eternal damnation awaits those who follow evil and reject God. In revelations satan and all of the fallen angels will be thrown into the eternal fire forever.

I don’t believe any such thing that satan will end up in heaven again. Satan knew all there was and is and ever will be to know about God and he flatly said ‘I will not serve’, that was binding for all eternity and he bound himself to this. Satan doesn’t have to be so evil, but he chose to be and in doing so became the source and father of all evil. He cannot love nor will he ever love.

I don’t believe it and would like further information to explain and expound such a theory that runs so contrary to Sacred Scripture.

In the Living Prayer of my lfe

I agree… Remember, Christ died for the sons and daughters of Adam. His blood did not spill for the angels or demons. They can’t turn back. They don’t have an opportunity for redemption, because Christ did not endure the Cross on their account.

 

[Coreopisis]

I agree… Remember, Christ died for the sons and daughters of Adam. His blood did not spill for the angels or demons. They can’t turn back. They don’t have an opportunity for redemption, because Christ did not endure the Cross on their account.

Yet another really good point…

 

[blessedstar]

I agree… Remember, Christ died for the sons and daughters of Adam. His blood did not spill for the angels or demons. They can’t turn back. They don’t have an opportunity for redemption, because Christ did not endure the Cross on their account.

How shortly and sweetly said

You have said it better than anyone.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[FCEGM]

I just don’t understand. Why can’t he go back to God Almighty? Is it because he’s so beautiful and powerful, that he just wants to be worshipped? Well then, why does he seek to destroy us. Can not anything change the mind Sammael, Lucifer?

Jason’s answer was right on target.

And from the Council of Constantinople’, 543 A.D. : “If anyone holds that the punishment of demons and of impious men is temporary, and that it will have an end at some time, or that there will be complete restoration of demons and impious men, anathema sit.”

Also, see, too, the Catechism, nbrs. 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037.

 

[blessedstar]

anathema sit."

.

It is a long time since I saw that phrase. When I was studying theology we studied anathema and it became a saying amongst us students that anything we did not agree with or disliked we would say ‘Anathema sit’, we amused ourselves I suppose during long lectures that could be so very dry! ‘Anathema sit that hairstyle!’ Surprisingly I passed theology!!!

Anyway enough sidetracking and enjoying myself

This has brought back many, many good memories of my younger years and of good friends made and kept. Thank you for reminding me.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[The_Catholic]

Ok, this is where I got it from, a book called “The Book of Angels” by Ruth Thompson:

“However, the revered St. Jerome contends that Samael, as Lucifer, may be playing a role for God. From his study of the scriptures, Jerome posited that becoming the being known as Lucifer was a momumental task that God assigned to Samael, as he was the only Archangel strong enough to survive the ravages of a Hellish station. This burden, to live as an exile within the flames of Perdition until the End-time, will be revealed when, as a reward for his service, God will accept him back into the ranks of Angels and reinstate him to his full power and station as Archangel. St. Jerome was not alone in this belief, as famed religious scholars including Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, St. Augustine, and Ambrosiaster all agreed, in principle, with his theory.”

I’m not saying I believe this so please don’t scold me. I just found it interesting. And I just can’t understand why Satan will never come back to God, ESPECIALY if he knows what’s coming for him. Strange is all.

 

[FrCorey]

I just don’t understand. Why can’t he go back to God Almighty? Is it because he’s so beautiful and powerful, that he just wants to be worshipped? Well then, why does he seek to destroy us. Can not anything change the mind Sammael, Lucifer?

the father would accept them back with open arms,
but they don’t want to go back and don’t want to
follow his instructions.

 

[The_Catholic]

I think Blessedstar is right by sticking with scripture to describe why the devil is so evil. I think this is a touchy subject with God, as would Him having to destroy any of His creations would be, including us. Which St. Michael shows us by example. I know the poster of this question is fresh from a profound spiritual experience and I’m looking out for him/her. I would hate for him/her to be given a “thorn” because of a conversation like this went badly by elation. Tim

heh thanks, I’m a ‘him’ by the way