Why does the Catholic church have to change?

[3DOCTORS]

this one has been knawing at me. Why is it the Catholic church that has to change it’s positions on Homosexual marriage, women ordination, abortion, birth control and priest’s marrying?
No other religious organization is under nearly this much pressure and attack from the secular world to change it’s positions.

Why not just be happy with the Episcopal church? They certainly look Catholic enough. They can claim Apostolic succession with a straight face (albeit they have to go through the Catholic church), and they have bowed to the popular culture on every issue. But no one cares. They want the real Catholic church to change

You might enjoy my baseball/football analogy forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=775223

 

[MattofTexas]

People want to the Catholic Church to change because so often she is the only Christian body that absolutely refuses to change. She has maintained her views on birth control and abortion for almost 2000 years (albeit she may own drug companies that constitute the largest provider of contraception in Europe). Major Mainline Protestant denominations all accept birth control (as do many Evangelicals) and some Progressives are beginning to switch sides on abortion. Some denominations will not only admit as members but even ordain people living a gay lifestyle- how long will it be before this becomes mainstream for North American Christians? In all of this the Catholic Church sticks to her roots and says no to changing her doctrines to fit the times, believing instead her doctrines to be timeless divinely revealed Truth founded in Scripture, Tradition, and Apostolic authority. If the Catholic Church is what she claims to be, everyone wants her to change because she stands as holy (set apart) and by her life convicts the world of its sin, and just as the world hated the Master so it hates the servants/Body/Bride. If the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be then the world demands her to change because she refuses to reform her errors and her incredible size causes these policies effect the lives of even those outside of her. What the Catholic Church is, is a matter of faith (faith informed by history, theology, philosophy, etc. but ultimately faith), but be she the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic TRUE Church, or not, the world demands she change because so often she and only she refuses to change.

 

[chero23]

People want to the Catholic Church to change because so often she is the only Christian body that absolutely refuses to change. She has maintained her views on birth control and abortion for almost 2000 years (albeit she may own drug companies that constitute the largest provider of contraception in Europe). Major Mainline Protestant denominations all accept birth control (as do many Evangelicals) and some Progressives are beginning to switch sides on abortion. Some denominations will not only admit as members but even ordain people living a gay lifestyle- how long will it be before this becomes mainstream for North American Christians? In all of this the Catholic Church sticks to her roots and says no to changing her doctrines to fit the times, believing instead her doctrines to be timeless divinely revealed Truth founded in Scripture, Tradition, and Apostolic authority. If the Catholic Church is what she claims to be, everyone wants her to change because she stands as holy (set apart) and by her life convicts the world of its sin, and just as the world hated the Master so it hates the servants/Body/Bride. If the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be then the world demands her to change because she refuses to reform her errors and her incredible size causes these policies effect the lives of even those outside of her. What the Catholic Church is, is a matter of faith (faith informed by history, theology, philosophy, etc. but ultimately faith), but be she the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic TRUE Church, or not, the world demands she change because so often she and only she refuses to change.

Very well put matt. I saw your post were you say your considering Catholicism. Let the holy spirit guide you. It will bring you into the Church that stands by what God said, bc the Church is what the Apostles through Christ assembled.

 

[Steveabrous]

I have a guess, and it’s only based on personal observation and could be very very wrong. And i say this as a catholic who has been in and out of the church’s good graces. Right now I expect that I am OUT, but I digress.

The Catholic church and to a lesser extent because they are smaller the eastern orthodox, is seen by the world, even the protestants as the Original church. there is no denying that every Christian denomination is an offshoot of the Catholic or Orthodox churches. In fact both the Catholic and Orthodox churches consider the other as an offshoot, but that’s for another thread.

And deep inside, whether you love them or hate them, whether you think they are 100% right or 100% in error, there is a special relevance given to the “original church.”

Periodically I have seen threads asking why when people of any denomination feel that they are possessed, they think about petitioning the Catholic Church for an exorcism. In my opinion it’s for the reasons I outlined above. So things that happen or don’t happen in the original church is important to all Christians.

I expect my post will get responses that say “I’m a (name your denomination) and you couldn’t be MORE wrong!”
My only response to that is 'you could be right. I don’t know. It’s just a feeling I have based on being a Catholic for a long time."

I think this spot on. The only thing is, Is anyone pressuring the orthodox to change?

 

[Steveabrous]

Its because the Catholic Church proclaims the truth on these points, and people hate the truth, especially the truth about their own behaviour (esp people such as abortionists and homosexuals).

You see, often the truth is challenging or difficult, or it doesnt suit us somehow etc.

Many people much prefer to make things up as they go along, as opposed to stick to the truth. This is more convenient for them.

Many people think it unfair that the truth isnt always cuddly, pleasant and nice. Many people lack the maturity and grace to deal with such a reality, hence the retreat into fantasy.

Some religions - eg islam and hinduism - are mostly adhered to by non-white people. In the liberal secular west, being non-white means “above criticism or question”.

They are also scared of the muslims.

The protestants have already bowed to secular society on every contentious issue going, and so are now just benign social clubs for vaguely well-meaning people.

Maybe they once looked Catholic. Now they look like a Hippie Commune playing at Catholics lol

Not anymore they cant. Women bishops ended that.

Thats right. It all comes back to people hating the truth. If you proclaim the truth, this causes a problem for these people. Their only goal is to suppress the truth.

Once people stop proclaiming truth, then they become nothing but an irrelevance and so they fall off the radar of critics. Thats why no one cares about the Episcopal Church etc - because it is irrelevant.

This is also why the Episcopal Church is rapidly dying. The fact that they are dying a death ought to inform them that they are on the wrong path - but it seems reason cannot penetrate their egos. They dont care if they die out in a decade or two - they got their Women Bishops and their Homosexual Bishops, and thats all they ever wanted or cared about. In my honest opinion, they have no real faith and are just secular people in bad vestments. (All of their opinions and values are 100% in line with secular values).

I realise its quite unpleasant to see the Catholic Church under constant attack in the media etc, but look at it this way: It means we are relevant. It means we unsettle and/or challenge people. It means we are seen as important. It means we have the truth.

Christ warned us, in his own lifetime, that it would be like this:

good response

 

[Steveabrous]

I have always wondered the exact same thing. It seems like the press was hoping for a Pope that would change the church to bend to the whims of society. I remember a commentator saying, “The Catholic Church has a lot of growing up to do.”

What they don’t realize is- the pope does not make up doctrine he defends it. That is why he is the rock

 

[Z_Ninja]

Just a thought, in the not realistic scenario where the Church changes its stance on same sex marriage, abortion, contraceptives and all, wouldn’t that just give the critics more ammunition against the Church and they would then say, “see, it wasn’t the true church since they changed their position.”

I am so very thankful for the Church and it’s strength and the Truth proclaimed in her.

 

[Steveabrous]

People want to the Catholic Church to change because so often she is the only Christian body that absolutely refuses to change. She has maintained her views on birth control and abortion for almost 2000 years (albeit she may own drug companies that constitute the largest provider of contraception in Europe). Major Mainline Protestant denominations all accept birth control (as do many Evangelicals) and some Progressives are beginning to switch sides on abortion. Some denominations will not only admit as members but even ordain people living a gay lifestyle- how long will it be before this becomes mainstream for North American Christians? In all of this the Catholic Church sticks to her roots and says no to changing her doctrines to fit the times, believing instead her doctrines to be timeless divinely revealed Truth founded in Scripture, Tradition, and Apostolic authority. If the Catholic Church is what she claims to be, everyone wants her to change because she stands as holy (set apart) and by her life convicts the world of its sin, and just as the world hated the Master so it hates the servants/Body/Bride. If the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be then the world demands her to change because she refuses to reform her errors and her incredible size causes these policies effect the lives of even those outside of her. What the Catholic Church is, is a matter of faith (faith informed by history, theology, philosophy, etc. but ultimately faith), but be she the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic TRUE Church, or not, the world demands she change because so often she and only she refuses to change.

Good response. And you are considering Catholicism? With that defense I’m suprised your not a cradle Catholic

 

[Steveabrous]

Wow, those are some great responses. I’m so glad we are getting a good discussion on this topic.

One of you mentioned that Islam is sometimes criticized for it’s treatment of women. I agree in the past that’s true, but honestly I can’t remember the last time I saw the Lame stream media do this. As another said I think it has to do with their skin color.

I don’t mean to pick on the Episcopal church, as I know many Episcopal people who are good christians and Don’t like what their church did. But I remember over the last 20 years or so when the Episcopal church ordained women, ordained gay Bishops, etc. it was big news and used as a stick to beat the Catholic church with. Now, since it didn’t work, they are getting more hostile towards us.

As far as other protestants,
I am a convert from the Presbyterian church. When I was Presbyterian any other denomination would accept I was a christian. Even though we may disagree. But when I became Catholic that was a different story. Even though we may have more in common then when i was a protestant. All of a sudden I had to answer for every percieved injustice the church ever did. I would say no one is perfect look at Jim Jones, David Coresh, and Jim Baker. Even if these people were from the same denomination as the scondrel they somehow found themselves insulated from that person and their scandle.

But we are not afforded that luxury. It proves in my eyes what Paul said (paraphrasing) “When one does wrong the whole body suffers.” and in my eyes is further proof, PROOF that the Catholic church is the true church.

And that’s my answer to the question. The church must change (according to the world) because deep down everyone knows it is the true church and the only one that matters.

Take that woman in Kentucky who ordained herself. If she realy thought it was ok to be a woman priest why not just become Episcopal? Because the Catholic church is what matters.

When A global crisis happens who does the world turn to? The Pope.
If someone is truly possessed who does everyone know can do something about it? The Catholic church.

 

[aemcpa]

No, you misunderstood me. I agree that the priests are healthy normal beings who are forced to have to do this.

Becca3

And I disagree with that. No priest is forced into celibacy; they voluntarily accept it after years of formation. And no healthy person is going to have sex with young boys as a reasonable alternative to having a wife; if celibacy were the issue, then priests would be caught with prostitutes or having affairs with grown women.

 

[Steveabrous]

And I disagree with that. No priest is forced into celibacy; they voluntarily accept it after years of formation. And no healthy person is going to have sex with young boys as a reasonable alternative to having a wife; if celibacy were the issue, then priests would be caught with prostitutes or having affairs with grown women.

I agree. The only thing that makes me think that celibacy might contribute is this:
If a man has SSA but comes from a strong Catholic family it seems reasonable that he might choose the priesthood rather then have to get married or explain why he doesn’t date girls, and doesn’t marry.

It may be attracting the wrong people.

 

[aemcpa]

The church must change (according to the world) because deep down everyone knows it is the true church and the only one that matters.

Take that woman in Kentucky who ordained herself. If she really thought it was ok to be a woman priest why not just become Episcopal? Because the Catholic church is what matters.

When the white smoke came out of the Sistina’s chimney on March 13, every news outlet in the world cut to the story. It was above the fold in 144-point font on page 1 of every major newspaper, it stopped the presses, news websites flipped their headlines over instantly, TV and radio went straight to their Rome correspondents or the Chapel-Cam, Twitter and Facebook blew up.

Trivia question: Who is the current Archbishop of Canterbury?

I have no more questions, Your Honor.

 

[Steveabrous]

When the white smoke came out of the Sistina’s chimney on March 13, every news outlet in the world cut to the story. It was above the fold in 144-point font on page 1 of every major newspaper, it stopped the presses, news websites flipped their headlines over instantly, TV and radio went straight to their Rome correspondents or the Chapel-Cam, Twitter and Facebook blew up.

Trivia question: Who is the current Archbishop of Canterbury?

I have no more questions, Your Honor.

Or the Ecumenical Patriarch (the Bishop of Constantinople) for that matter. He is supposedly second to the Pope.

 

[livingwordunity]

this one has been knawing at me. Why is it the Catholic church that has to change it’s positions on Homosexual marriage, women ordination, abortion, birth control and priest’s marrying?
No other religious organization is under nearly this much pressure and attack from the secular world to change it’s positions.

Why not just be happy with the Episcopal church? They certainly look Catholic enough. They can claim Apostolic succession with a straight face (albeit they have to go through the Catholic church), and they have bowed to the popular culture on every issue. But no one cares. They want the real Catholic church to change

Why do they hate the fact that the Catholic Church won’t give them a stamp of approval for sin? The answer is PRIDE.

 

[VanSensei]

Really, I just use [BIBLEDRB]Matthew 16:18-19[/BIBLEDRB] to describe the stagnancy of its doctrine. It could’ve changed at one point in history, but it didn’t. It kept itself as a rock. It doesn’t have to change a single bloody thing.

 

[Chan26]

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

How do we know Jesus said this?
All i can find is that someone wrote a hundred or so years after Jesus, that he said this. However, that doesn’t mean that Jesus said it. Do we even know who wrote this down? But i could be wrong.
chan26

 

[Kithrus]

That’s…not it at all.

.

Does it matter? Females priest can never happen. if you want to see more women in church rolls advertise more nuns.

 

[aemcpa]

How do we know Jesus said this?
All i can find is that someone wrote a hundred or so years after Jesus, that he said this. However, that doesn’t mean that Jesus said it. Do we even know who wrote this down? But i could be wrong.
chan26

“Religion: catholic” That’s how you know.

 

[aemcpa]

That’s…not it at all.

Either the Church has the authority that she claims to teach in the name of Christ, or she doesn’t. If she does, then a person of good will has no choice but to submit to that authority and to accept that she teaches what she teaches only because it is true and therefore always what is best for the souls of all men. If she doesn’t, then to hell with it - don’t waste your time worrying about what she says, because the whole thing is nonsense. There is no middle ground.

I’ll give you a hint: the answer is yes, she does.

 

[Chan26]

“Religion: catholic” That’s how you know.

I am a catholic and I don’t know. If you are implying you do know, then you must be a better catholic than I am
or, you are a real catholic and I must not be

chan26