Why does the Church make unneccesary rules that just creat more challenges or reasons to go to hell?

[Exalt]

Thank you for the correction - it was late last night. Yes. The omniscience you exhibit is the pride of place you have put your own opinions over that of the 2000-year-old Church that Christ placed on earth.

So you think that because I disagree with the Church’s teachings on a few issues that I believe I am omniscient?

No. That’s incorrect. I disagree with the Church’s teachings on many things because they don’t make sense. I point out once again that you never told me where I was flawed in my analogy. Why shouldn’t I let my friend fall from the cliff for standing me up on our dinner date? Exactly how is that different from what God does to us?

 

[RobertLGarrett]

So you think that because I disagree with the Church’s teachings on a few issues that I believe I am omniscient?

No. That’s incorrect. I disagree with the Church’s teachings on many things because they don’t make sense. I point out once again that you never told me where I was flawed in my analogy. Why shouldn’t I let my friend fall from the cliff for standing me up on our dinner date? Exactly how is that different from what God does to us?

Not a problem. Your analogy fails because it assumes that God would just stand there and say “let him fall.” He does more than that. He approaches us and reaches out His Hand. In defiance, the person in your analogy refuses help and falls to his death.

God loves us, but if we deny his help through our pride, then our free will leads to us to our death (hell). That’s the path you are on, my friend. That is why I pray for you.

And regarding omniscience, yes, you have faith in your own reason and opinions. If it that is not the definition of pride, I don’t know what is.

 

[Exalt]

Not a problem. Your analogy fails because it assumes that God would just stand there and say “let him fall.” He does more than that. He approaches us and reaches out His Hand. In defiance, the person in your analogy refuses help and falls to his death.

Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that missing mass for no good reason on a Holy Day of Obligation is grounds for condemnation to hell? If someone died on January 2, 2009 at 12:01 AM - in a state of mortal sin for only the above reason, with no intention of going to confession - would not that mortal sin send that man or woman to Hell? Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that a man or woman in the state of mortal sin is condemned to hell unless they seek or intend to seek the sacrament of reconciliation?

I’m a little confused here, Robert.

God loves us, but if we deny his help through our pride, then our free will leads to us to our death (hell). That’s the path you are on, my friend. That is why I pray for you.

I’m simply analyzing the teachings of the Church, applying reason to them and comparing them to common sense, and then drawing logical conclusions.

And regarding omniscience, yes, you have faith in your own reason and opinions. If it that is not the definition of pride, I don’t know what is.

You clearly don’t know what the definition of pride is. If I don’t have my reason and opinions, then what am I? I’d just be a parrot of someone *else’s *reason and opinions. Isn’t there value in thinking for one’s self?

 

[Jennifer_J]

Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that missing mass for no good reason on a Holy Day of Obligation is grounds for condemnation to hell? If someone died on January 2, 2009 at 12:01 AM - in a state of mortal sin for only the above reason, with no intention of going to confession - would not that mortal sin send that man or woman to Hell? Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that a man or woman in the state of mortal sin is condemned to hell unless they seek or intend to seek the sacrament of reconciliation?

I’m a little confused here, Robert.

I’m simply analyzing the teachings of the Church, applying reason to them and comparing them to common sense, and then drawing logical conclusions.

You clearly don’t know what the definition of pride is. If I don’t have my reason and opinions, then what am I? I’d just be a parrot of someone *else’s *reason and opinions. Isn’t there value in thinking for one’s self?

You 2 obviously have history here that is clouding your compassion and charity…

However, the person who misses mass ON PURPOSE, with FULL KNOWLEDGE and since attending Mass on Sunday (and Holy Days as obligated by the Church) is a commandement–that makes it Grave Matter, that person has rejected God. God has extended His hand and the person has said, no thanks, I want to sit on my couch and reject Jesus. If the person misses Mass due to illness, child’s illness, bad weather, forgets that it’s a Holy Day of Obligation, etc, then the sin is mitigated by those reasons. God is just. He offers opportunities. We can either meet Him or reject Him–that is our Free Will.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that missing mass for no good reason on a Holy Day of Obligation is grounds for condemnation to hell? If someone died on January 2, 2009 at 12:01 AM - in a state of mortal sin for only the above reason, with no intention of going to confession - would not that mortal sin send that man or woman to Hell? Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that a man or woman in the state of mortal sin is condemned to hell unless they seek or intend to seek the sacrament of reconciliation?

I’m a little confused here, Robert.

I’m not sure why you are confused. If a person dies in the state of mortal sin, it means that they have chosen to turn away from God. They have chosen Hell. God doesn’t send them to Hell. The way to return to a state of grace is to reconcile with God through Confession.

Now, if someone misses Mass and doesn’t/can’t make it to Confession, does that mean they are going to Hell? You and I don’t know. Missing Mass is a grave matter, but whether it is mortal sin or not depends on the other criteria. Also, did they die with the intention of receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation on Saturday?

As I explained in the analogy you used, God extends His Hand, but if the person refuses to take it, they will fall to their death.

 

[yellowbicycle]

Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that missing mass for no good reason on a Holy Day of Obligation is grounds for condemnation to hell? If someone died on January 2, 2009 at 12:01 AM - in a state of mortal sin for only the above reason, with no intention of going to confession - would not that mortal sin send that man or woman to Hell? Is it not the position of the Catholic Church that a man or woman in the state of mortal sin is condemned to hell unless they seek or intend to seek the sacrament of reconciliation?

Why didn’t that person go to mass? Why does that person not intend to go to reconciliation? What do you mean by ‘no good reason’? What exactly was that person’s reason? ALL of this is relevant to the situation, though, it makes no difference to me. I’m not the judge of this person’s soul.
The Catholic church teaches that God is all-merciful and all-knowing. If you choose to examine ONE of her teachings in exclusion of the others, you are quite right to conclude that the particular teaching sounds absurd. In much the same way, I wouldn’t give you chapter 7 of a book to read, without giving you the rest of the book, too. So, when you look at the teachings of the Catholic church AS A WHOLE - that Christ - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity - is present in the Eucharist. That attending Mass pleases God. That God loves us infinitely. That God’s mercy surpasses even our understanding of mercy. Well, to me, then and ONLY then does any of it makes sense.
The church teaches us that Jesus is the groom, and WE, the members of his church are the bride. Mass is our wedding feast. It is His sacrifice to us, but it is also our feast. So when I read your above scenario, here is what it sounds like (though I know this wasn’t your intent, but this is how your scenario would sound to someone who DOES believe in the church’s teachings)
You are talking about a wedding, for which the bride didn’t show, and you are wondering why the couple isn’t married.
I missed Mass on Sunday. It wasn’t for ‘no good reason’. It was for ‘not a very good reason’, namely that I flaked and spent too much time at the play place with the kids and didn’t realize how late it was. I’m sorry about that. I enjoy Mass. The kids enjoy Mass. I will be going to confession tomorrow for this. Because when I offend those I love, I tell them I’m sorry. And not just a flip ‘sorry’, I try to make some gesture to show how sorry I am, like, by apologizing in person, at their house. Which is what I’ll be doing.
I don’t really see any of this as extraordinarily burdensome.

 

[Ender]

I disagree with the Church’s teachings on many things because they don’t make sense.

A lot of Catholics have trouble with Church teachings (viz. contraception), the key question is how you decide to act: based on your understanding or the Church’s. We are obliged to follow our conscience but simply because we conscientiously believe something to be true does not necessarily absolve us of guilt if in fact we are wrong.

You really need to recognize the full implications of your choice in rejecting what the Church teaches. In the act of rejection you also:

• claim that the Church has failed her mission of “authentically interpreting God’s law.” (Veritatis Splendor 45)
• claim that the “knowledge which the Church offers to man” is based on her own speculation and not the word of God. (Fides et Ratio 7)
• reject the claim that “The Church is in no way the author or the arbiter” of the moral norm. (VS 95)
• reject the claim that “the task of authentically interpreting the word of God … has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church.” (Dei Verbum 10)

That is, you reject the very basis for which the Church exists. I am not including things like when we should kneel at mass or even whether priests should be unmarried but the teachings of the magisterium since the founding of the Church. There is a lot more here than questioning the significance of missing Sunday mass.

Ender