Why does the Church make unneccesary rules that just creat more challenges or reasons to go to hell?

[mesl4]

Help me understand how what the RCs have done does not contradict the Bible. And keep in mind, I don’t yet 100% believe they are God’s inspired Church so give me answers that can explain it in a different way.

I happen to be looking at Galatians so:
3:21-25
4:10 (like Holy Days of Obligation)
4:30-5:1
5:3-6
5:22-23
6:2
I’m not trying to convince you of my point, but trying to reconcile these Biblical passages that say to me that RCs are teaching wrongly. I’m trying to find answers to convince me the RCs don’t contradict the Bible.

 

[mesl4]

One time, I had this friend. He said he was going to let me take him out to dinner, but he stood me up. The next week, I took a trip to the Grand Canyon. Turns out my friend was there. We go for a walk along the ridge and he slips off a cliff. He’s hanging there by his finger tips. I, however, just walk away. After all, he didn’t show up to dinner. It’s only just. He wasn’t receptive to my goodness, and he suffered the consequences.

That’s horrible! Are you saying that’s what God will do to us?

 

[RobertLGarrett]

That’s not true. It’s not that I don’t want to. I like the rules. They are not bad for us that is for sure. I just don’t understand the SUNDAY obligation being the only one that counts. If they said go weekly, that would be fine, go daily , whatever, but to say that going 6 days a wk doesn’t count if you don’t go on a Sunday, is absurd to me. I can’t imagine God would think that. If you want to be so technical, at least make it Saturday, since that is the Sabbath right? It was moved to Sunday by Christians to celebreate on the resurrection day, and to avoid Jews/or be less conspicuous I thought. Jews went on Sat.(the Sabbath).

Plus, making the rules by saying, “it is advisable” or “it will help you grow spiritually” is fine, but to say it is a mortal sin to go on a different day than Sunday blows my mind.

I’m happy to hear you are going through RCIA - praise be to God!

I’m not clear on what your real question is. You seem to understand that keeping the Sabbath holy is one of the Ten Commandments (#3). You also understand that the early Church changed our obligations to keep the Sabbath holy from the seventh day to the “first day” or “eighth day” - The Lord’s Day.

Is your problem that it is Sunday and not Saturday, or is your problem with the obligation being a mortal sin (regardless of Saturday or Sunday)?

Not keeping The Lord’s Day holy (i.e. fulfilling the Sunday obligation) is breaking the Third Commandment. It is a grave matter to break any of the other commandments - murder, adultery, etc. This is the reason it is a mortal sin (if the other conditions are there - full knowledge, deliberate consent).

The Church isn’t deciding it is a mortal sin…it is, by its very nature, a mortal sin.

I hope that helps. Here are the sections of the Catechism that I am alluding to:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1854
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "**Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter **and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a3.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

Pax Christi,
Robert

 

[RobertLGarrett]

That’s horrible! Are you saying that’s what God will do to us?

No. Exalt is expressing what he thinks Catholics think God will do. Exalt has a dark heart. I would not recommend following his advice or reading his posts. Instead, pray for him, as I do, to turn to God in love and obedience rather than setting himself up as the one with omnipotence.

Pax Christi,
Robert

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Help me understand how what the RCs have done does not contradict the Bible. And keep in mind, I don’t yet 100% believe they are God’s inspired Church so give me answers that can explain it in a different way.

I happen to be looking at Galatians so:
3:21-25
4:10 (like Holy Days of Obligation)
4:30-5:1
5:3-6
5:22-23
6:2
I’m not trying to convince you of my point, but trying to reconcile these Biblical passages that say to me that RCs are teaching wrongly. I’m trying to find answers to convince me the RCs don’t contradict the Bible.

Read the whole of a book/chapter, not individual verses. The reason will become clear. For example, take Galatians 5. You skipped the middle part, some of which has “rules.”

1
1 2 For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.
2
It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3
Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. 3
4
You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5
For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness.
6
For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. 4
7
5 6 You were running well; who hindered you from following (the) truth?
8
That enticement does not come from the one who called you. 7
9
A little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough.
10
I am confident of you in the Lord that you will not take a different view, and that the one who is troubling you will bear the condemnation, whoever he may be.
11
As for me, brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, 8 why am I still being persecuted? In that case, the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
12
Would that those who are upsetting you might also castrate themselves! 9
13
10 11 For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love.
14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 12
15
But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another.
16
I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. 13
17
For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want.
18
But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19
14 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
20
idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
21
occasions of envy, 15 drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22
In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
23
gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24
Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit.
26
Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.

Now, what does “those who do these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God” mean? It sounds kind of like rules, even though Paul just got done telling the Galatians “But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

Try thinking about it a little, and see if you can understand. Hint: Remember the Two Great Commandments.

Pax Christi,
Robert

 

[MariaG]

I wasn’t saying that is what the Church is, just that I want to make sure that is NOT what she is before joining. I don’t want to risk my salvation.

Very important and extremely wise!!!

What I did, and suggest you do, is get a catechism of the Catholic Church, hard copy or online if you like to study online. Start at the beginning, or pick a subject you have particular concerns about.

I read the section, and look up each reference given to scripture and read the scripture. Although some of the references given, are also writings expanding on scripture, I did not have them so ignored them. But each and every section I read, and reading scripture, just FIT!

The Catholic CHurch is the most biblical church around.

God Bless,
MariaG

 

[Exalt]

No. Exalt is expressing what he thinks Catholics think God will do.

Exactly!

Exalt has a dark heart. I would not recommend following his advice or reading his posts. Instead, pray for him, as I do, to turn to God in love and obedience rather than setting himself up as the one with omnipotence.

Pax Christi,
Robert

You’ll notice that Robert never pointed out where my analogy was flawed. He only made fun of my heart, which is *actually *quite red and healthy!

As for praying for me, please, go right ahead. It makes me feel nice that someone is thinking about me.

By the way, I don’t think I have omnipotence. I just tried to fly, and gravity wouldn’t let me

(I think Robert means “omniscience,” which, of course, is a quality that I don’t claim to have. I don’t know where he got that idea.)

 

[MariaG]

Help me understand how what the RCs have done does not contradict the Bible. And keep in mind, I don’t yet 100% believe they are God’s inspired Church so give me answers that can explain it in a different way.

I happen to be looking at Galatians so:
3:21-25
4:10 (like Holy Days of Obligation)
4:30-5:1
5:3-6
5:22-23
6:2
I’m not trying to convince you of my point, but trying to reconcile these Biblical passages that say to me that RCs are teaching wrongly. I’m trying to find answers to convince me the RCs don’t contradict the Bible.

Have you looked up the Catechism on this? You shall love the Lord with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind.

Follow the link, look up the scripture in the footnotes. I am not sure it addresses your specific scripture above.

 

[jafthompson]

Only the Catholic Church has the full authority of Jesus and all the sacraments to help us get to heaven. It makes the journey easier in one way but more difficult in another way has a fall from grace by a catholic with a full understanding of the faith would be greater. That is why in its wisdom the God and the Church have given us rules to follow as helps and as Jesus said to the apostles( now the Pope and the bishops) “hear you, hear Me”.

And as others have posted once you have joined in the Sunday Mass and received the Lord in Holy communion you will want to keep going and that rule about Sunday won’t even bother you as it seems to now.

In my parish the week day masses are shorter and not as exiting as the Saturday Vigil or Sunday Mass.

 

[teachccd]

I wasn’t saying that is what the Church is, just that I want to make sure that is NOT what she is before joining. I don’t want to risk my salvation.

My jumping to conclusions… Fair enough…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Help me understand how what the RCs have done does not contradict the Bible. And keep in mind, I don’t yet 100% believe they are God’s inspired Church so give me answers that can explain it in a different way.

I happen to be looking at Galatians so:
3:21-25
4:10 (like Holy Days of Obligation)
4:30-5:1
5:3-6
5:22-23
6:2
I’m not trying to convince you of my point, but trying to reconcile these Biblical passages that say to me that RCs are teaching wrongly. I’m trying to find answers to convince me the RCs don’t contradict the Bible.

I have written at great length and I don’t know if you’ve pondered my previous posts since you just commented on a couple of sentences. There are many great posts on this thread. I do hope that you take the advice of those directing you to the Catechism and other reliable resources on Church teachings.

Galatians speaks of the law of love. It also speaks of the law without Christ. In other words, the non-believeing Jews still went about realizing that they were righteous before God by their works and not by belief in Jesus Christ.

Galations Chapter 5 is most interesting because it shows exactly what Catholicism teaches. This is an exhortation to Christian living. Galations 5:6 says that we must have “faith working through love”. Galatians 5:14 again states that love is essentially the “whole law”.

Protestant theology relies heavily (from my observations) on the letters of Saint Paul to the Romans and Galatians. Mainly that is to counter the Catholic theology of “faith and works”. (while totally ignoring James chapter 2) But Paul continually speaks of how Christians MUST live to be followers of Christ. Read his letters to the Corinthians. Titus Chapter 2 speaks on Christian behavior. Rules for widows, 1 Timothy Chapter 5 and the list goes on and on…Read the First letter of St. John in its entirety. That is Catholic teaching. Read especially Chapter two where John speaks of how we must obey the commandments. (see 1 John 2:4)

The Bible must be read in full context. There is no other way. Pulling certain texts out of certain letters to admonish the Catholic Church is not being fair to the Church or to yourself. I know that you are discerning and that you are in RCIA. Praise God for that. PLEASE find someone in the Catholic Church that can sit down with you and really open Scripture to you through the eyes of the Church. It is the chaotic view of Scripture by Protestants that makes me a stronger Catholic. Many Protestants that I spoke with do not see the big picture and are “stuck”, if you will, on making sure that whatever is Catholic must be wrong.

It is amazing, however, that the Lutherans (yes, Martin Luther who initiated the reformation) are now coming together with the Catholics on the doctrine of justification. Imagine that. The catalyst of the wildfire now embraces the extinguisher.

Please, PM me with anything and I can give you my email. Do not give up the fight. Once you see it you will know why I spent all of this time hunting and pecking this keyboard for you. You are very convicted to Christ and I can really appreciate that. I, too, discerned my Catholic faith. My salvation is everything to me. Again, I pose, leave no stone unturned…God Bless…teachccd

 

[RobertLGarrett]

(I think Robert means** “omniscience,” **which, of course, is a quality that I don’t claim to have. I don’t know where he got that idea.)

Thank you for the correction - it was late last night. Yes. The omniscience you exhibit is the pride of place you have put your own opinions over that of the 2000-year-old Church that Christ placed on earth.

 

[mesl4]

Read the whole of a book/chapter, not individual verses. The reason will become clear.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

I have many times. I’ve not in depth studies of Galatians (as well as other bible books) in a Bible Study group I was in. You don’t seem to understand that Protestants interpret things very differently than Catholics and all the Bible studies I have done have been w/a Protestant mindset. Many of our conceptions of Catholics are the same as the Jews or Mormons, etc. It is very hard to change from “faith alone” to faith plus works. Although, I have always struggled w/“Fatih alone” because of the many verses that tell of obeying and not inheriting the kingdom of God for disobeying. It is very hard to uproot the theology that has been engrained in you since childhood.

As a former Protestant (Presbyterian and a “Bible Church”) and former existentialist, I think I do understand. Keep up the good work.

Pax Christi,
Robert

 

[mesl4]

Have you looked up the Catechism on this? You shall love the Lord with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind.

Follow the link, look up the scripture in the footnotes. I am not sure it addresses your specific scripture above.

I have read the Cathechism on this (I have one at home and we’re going throught the US Catechsism in my RCIA class). I will check out the footnotes. I guess what it all boils down to is obedience though. If he wants us to honor one specific day, we should do it. That is not saying the other days we honor are not good, but to do good things apart from a specific good he requests, is not right. Like I tell me kids, “That’s great that you did such and such, but I asked you to do such and such and you didn’t do it.” I get it.

 

[teachccd]

I have read the Cathechism on this (I have one at home and we’re going throught the US Catechsism in my RCIA class). I will check out the footnotes. I guess what it all boils down to is obedience though. If he wants us to honor one specific day, we should do it. That is not saying the other days we honor are not good, but to do good things apart from a specific good he requests, is not right. Like I tell me kids, “That’s great that you did such and such, but I asked you to do such and such and you didn’t do it.” I get it.

That’s it…teachccd

 

[Jennifer_J]

I have read the Cathechism on this (I have one at home and we’re going throught the US Catechsism in my RCIA class). I will check out the footnotes. I guess what it all boils down to is obedience though. If he wants us to honor one specific day, we should do it. That is not saying the other days we honor are not good, but to do good things apart from a specific good he requests, is not right. Like I tell me kids, “That’s great that you did such and such, but I asked you to do such and such and you didn’t do it.” I get it.

Beautifully put!!!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Very well put–and well reasoned. And it is certainly a lot better that you ask the questions now and get everything cleared up instead of having them ‘crop up’ afterward and make you miserable.

God bless you and all those discerning AND practicing the Catholic faith especially.

(Yes, of COURSE God bless nonCatholics too. )

 

[MariaG]

I have read the Cathechism on this (I have one at home and we’re going throught the US Catechsism in my RCIA class). I will check out the footnotes. I guess what it all boils down to is obedience though. If he wants us to honor one specific day, we should do it. That is not saying the other days we honor are not good, but to do good things apart from a specific good he requests, is not right. Like I tell me kids, “That’s great that you did such and such, but I asked you to do such and such and you didn’t do it.” I get it.

Yep. It is an uncomfortable fit at first, coming from the Protestant churches to realize that not only do I need to obey God, but that God left an authority on earth to help us know what God wants us to do.

All I can say is that I finally found relief rather than discomfort once I was able to trust that the Church, the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church, and I no longer had to discern the truth myself with conflicting interpretations from solid Christians.

My spiritual walk was to trust in Christ, in His word, and the final piece was to trust in His Church.

God Bless,
MariaG

 

[Ruthie]

It sounds like you’re getting a handle on things. God bless you.

I’ve always been an independent thinker who tests authorities and checks facts. One of the things I love about the church is that, while she tells us certain things we must believe, she doesn’t try to run our lives for us, or control our thinking. Nor does she hide anything from us.

With 2000 years of wonderful thinkers, theologians, and true lovers of God, there is so much to explore. When I was first drawn to her, I investigated the teachings I had a hard time with. When I got past the “rules” into the reasons for the rules, I was convinced.

I’m sure I will die before I read everything written about our Church - but I’m looking forward to the rest of the journey!

God bless you,

Ruthie