Why does the Church make unneccesary rules that just creat more challenges or reasons to go to hell?

[mesl4]

Here’s another example that might put things in perspective:

One of the Commandments is to honor one’s parents. Let’s say one child’s parents make 10 rules for their son to obey where as another set of parents has no rules for their son to obey. We could make the same argument that the parents who have rules are simply making it harder for their child to go to heaven. But if we examine the rules, we see that they are designed with the good of the child in mind. They help him to be disciplined and to do good–this of course helps him get to heaven. The other son who’s parents imposed no obedience, becomes undisciplined and bratty. This does not help him get to Heaven.

The same can be said for the Church’s rules. Being obligated to go to Mass on Sundays is like parents rule that a child must eat his dinner. If the child doesn’t eat his dinner, he may starve to death. One must attend Mass or risk their soul starving. This rule helps us go to Heaven. We should want to do it on our own like a child should want to eat a nutritious dinner on his own, but that is not always the case. Not all of us are spiritually mature enough to want to go to Mass for love of God alone, so we need the imposed obligation to help us grow towards that.

But you are all going on the assumption that nobody wants to please their parents/God. If that is the case, even following the rules doesn’t prove their love if they’re dong it out of fear and not desire to please/obey. Once we have the Spirit of love for Jesus, we want to obey out of love and don’t need the rules. We will naturally do what is pleasing w/out needing a bunch of rules.ALso, parents treat each child differently depending on their behavior. I know from first hand experience. I have to be very specific w/one child, and she always looks for a way to push the limits. THe other, is naturally obedient and does not push the buttons. When the one who has more a spirit of disobedience does something wrong out of ill will, it will be punished, where as the one who does something wrong out of ignorance or a good intention, will not be punished. Seems like God would treat us the same. Someone missing Sunday mass, doesn’t necessarily have any ill will towards God. Seems like RCs start w/the rule/obedience and try to get the heart to folllow. Protestants start w/the heart and the obedience follows.

Again, the issue is the day required to show proof of ones faith. It shouldn’t matter what day one goes to mass. The point is, they want to go and do go on a regular basis: Daily, every other day, wkly, monthly, whatever. Our faith should show EVERY day, not just on a Sunday.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Once we have the Spirit of love for Jesus, we want to obey out of love and don’t need the rules. We will naturally do what is pleasing w/out needing a bunch of rules.

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree with the above. It appears to me that you are creating a false dichotomy where none exists. . .that you’re basically stating that:

Those who love Jesus ‘don’t need rules’.

Therefore, if you ‘make rules’, you’re automatically turning everything into an ‘obedience thing’ and you’re SPOILING that ‘natural love for Jesus’.

As any parent can tell you, our children ‘naturally’ love us. . .but no parent in his/her right mind would attempt to raise a child and expect the child to ‘obey out of love’ without needing ‘any rules’.

Why would GOD be different as a parent from earthly parents, made in His image?

 

[mesl4]

Well, the main problem here is with authority. It’s like saying, "Well, yes, I accept that the Catholic faith has the fullness of faith. I accept that the Real Presence is truth. I accept the Scriptures. I accept, in fact, everything about Catholicism. . .

except. . .

except. . .

Its authority. I reject that. I want to have what I want on my terms. I refuse to give obedience to the Church on anything I think is not ‘Scriptural’, on anything I think doesn’t or shouldn’t apply to me at any given time.

I want to have all the ‘perks’. . .but none of the responsibilities. I want to feel like I’m on the fast track to salvation. . .but not actually ‘take up my yoke and follow Christ in obedience’ because hey, I’m an individual with rights and MY reason, MY ideas, MY life is more important than some fusty, musty rules that I don’t want and I don’t TRUST because they don’t ‘suit’ me."
.

I know this wasn’t saying it’s how I feel, but just to clarify, for me, I wrestle w/accepting Catholicism’s authority because of things like this. Before converting I want to be sure this Church is not a horrible anti-christ that is lying about it’s authority and deceiving the nations into believing they have to earn their salvation by obeying a bunch of laws made by power hungry demons, making us think that we could actaully be good enough to merit heaven, when really we are to understand how far we are from perfection and that only by Christ’s amazing bridge can we cross over into his paradise. Or that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient for our salvation, It must be accompanied by a bunch of our “righteousness” to make it take. If the claims of RCs are true, I will gladly submit to all it’s rules/authority because I will believe it’s from God. But it is a serious claim so demands a serious investigation because if it’s wrong, it is extremely evil.

 

[mesl4]

I"Once we have the Spirit of love for Jesus, we want to obey out of love and don’t need the rules. We will naturally do what is pleasing w/out needing a bunch of rules".
I 'm sorry, but I completely disagree with the above. It appears to me that you are creating a false dichotomy where none exists. . .that you’re basically stating that:

Those who love Jesus ‘don’t need rules’.

My ideas come from Romans especially 2:14, 29, 3:20. I will say though, that Romans is very confusing for me. Half the time it sounds like it’s saying the law is not going to make us righteous, the other half, that we must obey it.

 

[teachccd]

Whether you want to obey that law or not, it is still a law. I like going the speed limit, or obeying other civil laws, but if I break them I’m still fined/jailed. So, the church makes laws and we can choose to obey or disobey. The point is, why does it have to be a law? If your whole identity in being a Christian is wrapped up in going to Church or receiving the Eucharist every wk, than I can understand I guess, but our identity as Christians should be much bigger than that. He came to dwell IN us! Our body is the temple. I don’t need to GO to a certain place to be with him. He is with me ALWAYS. Whether it is in the bathroom, bedroom, work, church building, or even in the valley of the shadow of death. He is there. That’s why I don’t understand why the RCs want to make it like we’re abandoning him if we don’t GO to a certain building at a certain time. Especially if we are there more than not, and then just happen to not go on a cetain day. The Bible speaks of it not mattering what day we go.THe church contradicts this.

The Eucharist is absolutely nothing less than Christ Himself. If you consider it a “law” that we must see Him on Sunday, then I guess I see your point. But Jesus commanded His disciples at the Last Supper to continue in His offering. Hebrews 10:25 is explicit that we should gather as a community in Christ. It has nothing to do with a building.

Have you read Matthew Chapters 5-7? Are these not “laws” of love? Are these not requirements that Jesus commands of us if we are to be His disciples? Once one identifies the Church as what she is, Christ in our midst, then one can understand that wehn the Church speaks it is Jesus who speaks.

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law but He did not abolish them. We must still love God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength and love our neighbor as ourself.

Our identity as Christians is exhibited in the way that we live our life every moment of the day. On the day of Jesus’ resurrection, Sunday, we find it fit to gather as Jesus did and as the early Church continued to do after His ascension and break bread. When you read the story in Luke 24 of the Road to Emmaus you can see how the early Church expressed in this story (this was written after the resurrection so it would emphasize the ongoing Christian worship) how Jesus opened the word and then broke bread. After they recognized Him in the breaking of the bread He vanished. Why? Because He stayed with them in the Eucharist. That is how Jesus is present with us at Mass.

It’s not to be seen that we are abandoning Him if we don’t go to a building. It’s to be seen as it is. The Eucharist has been since the Last Supper the ongoing presentation of Christ’s passion, death and resurrection. At Mass we are truly present at that event that transcends time. The Jews understood this since the Last Supper was in the context of the Passover. When the Jews celebrate the Passover they are not merely “remembering” the exodus but rather they transport themselves back to that very event. Jesus fulfilled this in the Eucharist where we, as Catholics can trascend time and be present at the foot of the Cross. Now this is more than just knowing that Christ is present within us since we can intimately unite ourselves with the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament that He instituted before He died.

I can appreciate that as a Protestant you may not be aware of what this means to a Catholic Christian since the fullness of Christ’s presence is also in other forms of worship. I know that I may be making a generalization by saying this but there are even many Catholics who are unaware of the immense gift we have in the Eucharist.

So, in closing, purposely missing Mass on sunday to a Catholic who is fully aware of his or her faith is like finding something better to do on that friday when Jesus hung on the Cross. It’s like saying that I don’t need to be there because He said that He would be with me always. It’s like saying that this gift that altered the course of human history is not worth the hour of my being there. Christ is God and God is love. Love, as I explained in my previous post, requires committment and has consequences when those are neglected. Remember the marriage parallel that I gave?

God bless you and please feel free to come back to me for anything else. I would love nothing more than for you to understand more fully why I am Catholic in light of those who say that I can be a Christian with a much “easier” gospel. Believe me it would be easier to not have all these “laws”. But that argument would be with Christ, Himself, and He is not the Man to question…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

But your are speaking of actions that become a way of life and I’m speaking of something that is an occasional action that does not cause a change in the person’s love or faith in God.

Everything that we do causes a change or conversion in a person’s love or faith in God. That’s exactly my point. Our life is nothing more than a series of choices. Within those choices are opportunities to move toward or away from God. Christ, through His Church, gives us the guidelines to move towards Him and then as we recognize His love we begin to understand more and more the importance of why He commands us to so certain things.

Just looking back at all of those times we thought that our parents were nuts for having so many rules. When we were kids we thought that our parents were just trying to make our lives miserable by imposing so many rules. But now, as adults, we can see how much love there was and that those “rules” were the guidelines for our safety so that we could grow up and become responsible adults.

Every action whether occasional or habitual is an action for or against God. We must realize that a one time “I love you” can be life changing to an elderly person who had no one to care for them in their last moments of life.

In order for a rule to be unnecessary it would mean that one could move closer to God without it. For a Christian who understands the eucharist we cannot say that we could ever move closer to Christ without it. Why? Because the Eucharist IS Christ. It is a gift to go to Mass every Sunday. There is no greater gift. Only the person who has not unwrapped it would think of this gift of life as a box of bricks. And that’s o.k… We are all on a journey. But be fair to yourself. That IS THE MOST IMPORTANT part of my message to you. Leave no stone unturned. If you are truly looking at Catholicism then speak to those who know our ancient faith given to us by Christ, passed on from the apostles and maintained by the Church for 2000 years.

God Bless…teachccd

 

[kage_ar]

Did Jesus come to build a church, yes or no?

 

[teachccd]

But you are all going on the assumption that nobody wants to please their parents/God. If that is the case, even following the rules doesn’t prove their love if they’re dong it out of fear and not desire to please/obey. Once we have the Spirit of love for Jesus, we want to obey out of love and don’t need the rules. We will naturally do what is pleasing w/out needing a bunch of rules.ALso, parents treat each child differently depending on their behavior. I know from first hand experience. I have to be very specific w/one child, and she always looks for a way to push the limits. THe other, is naturally obedient and does not push the buttons. When the one who has more a spirit of disobedience does something wrong out of ill will, it will be punished, where as the one who does something wrong out of ignorance or a good intention, will not be punished. Seems like God would treat us the same. Someone missing Sunday mass, doesn’t necessarily have any ill will towards God. Seems like RCs start w/the rule/obedience and try to get the heart to folllow. Protestants start w/the heart and the obedience follows.

Again, the issue is the day required to show proof of ones faith. It shouldn’t matter what day one goes to mass. The point is, they want to go and do go on a regular basis: Daily, every other day, wkly, monthly, whatever. Our faith should show EVERY day, not just on a Sunday.

The earliest Christians broke bread daily. (cf. Acts 2:42-47) That is why Mass is offered daily all over the world. Sunday is the day that Christ rose from the dead so the earliest Christians met on the first day of the week to celebrate this Paschal Mystery or Mass. I think that you are stuck with the Sunday thing even though most Protestants also worship on Sunday as well.

The Church is about unity and the early Church re-established the Sabbath as the Lord’s day to unify our celebration of Christ’s passion, death and resurrection. The Church does not teach that if you miss Mass you are destined to hell. First of all there are three requirements of a sin to be deadly or mortal. So one must give full consent to the idea that there is something better to do than to join Christ in His Sacrifice that was done once for all. (See Hebrews 10) It takes an understanding of what Mass is and why for centuries Christians met on the first day of the week to gain the appreciation for this obligation.

Jesus said, “they will know you are Christians by your love”. Catholics start with love and then recognize the commands of Christ and follow them because of that love. I will not comment on what Protestants do since I am not one and it would be unfair for me to do so. But, as a Catholic, all I can say is if it could be easier I’d be there. To follow Christ is not an easy road and He said that we must pick up our Cross and follow Him.

If someone who misses Mass on sunday does not have ill will for God then that person either does not understand what it is that they are missing or they missed it because of something beyond their control. I cannot imagine why anyone would miss Mass for any other reason. Either way, that person is not going to hell.

I pray that you continue in your journey and will someday experience Christ in a way that no one could ever describe in words. I would be at Mass always and I do go everyday that I am not working. Rules? No, quite the contrary. Gift. Yes, the greatest gift given to humanity. I pray that you will know this one day…God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

I know this wasn’t saying it’s how I feel, but just to clarify, for me, I wrestle w/accepting Catholicism’s authority because of things like this. Before converting I want to be sure this Church is not a horrible anti-christ that is lying about it’s authority and deceiving the nations into believing they have to earn their salvation by obeying a bunch of laws made by power hungry demons, making us think that we could actaully be good enough to merit heaven, when really we are to understand how far we are from perfection and that only by Christ’s amazing bridge can we cross over into his paradise. Or that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient for our salvation, It must be accompanied by a bunch of our “righteousness” to make it take. If the claims of RCs are true, I will gladly submit to all it’s rules/authority because I will believe it’s from God. But it is a serious claim so demands a serious investigation because if it’s wrong, it is extremely evil.

I could not agree with you more. If the Roman Catholic Church is what you described above I would be running away as fast as I could. But it is not. It is the true Church of Jesus Christ. He is our authority and He continues to exercise His authority through His Church guided by the Holy Spirit. As a Protestant you accept parts of that authority. One mainly being your acceptance of the 27 books of the New testament. This was acknowledged by the Church and approved through the Councils of Carthage and Hippo in the fourth centuries.

And as far as Christ’s sacrifice not being sufficient? Well, that’s another book for me to write but you have it all wrong. If we believed that, I would be gone. In fact, if we believed most of what you say we believe I would be gone. I would not join the Church either if I continued to think that the Catholic Church is what you say she is. I pray that you research further and know the truth about the Catholic Church. You will be surprised by what that truth can bring…God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

So why would I want to convert to Catholicism if I can be saved as a Protestant without adding all the extra rules? I still seek to be pure and holy as a Protestant, and to obey, but my rules are fewer because we only use the Bible as our guide.

If we are following the same Christ then either we, as Catholics, conform more closely to His commands or Protestants are neglecting to follow all that Christ commands.

If you use only the Bible as your guide then how can you ever know that it is inspired? Because it says so? So does the Koran and the Book of Mormon. It’s the authority of a Church established by Christ and continues to be guided by the Holy Spirit that gives us, you and me, the authority to KNOW that Scripture is the inspired Word of God. Left standing by itself it is just a book. It would be like the U.S. Constitution not having the Supreme Court to uphold its contents. Imagine all those in the U.S. interpreting the Constitution for themselves. Chaos? You bet.

You don’t “convert” to Catholicism. You come home to Catholicism. In Matthew Chapter 18 Scripture says that if your brother sins against you go and tell him. If he fails to listen then take one or two others along with you. If he still fails to listen tell the church. What Church? If it is the year 1272 what Church? if it is the year 1025, what Church? How about now? Do I take him to the Baptist church? the Methodist church? The non-denominational Church? Which one??

Christ founded one Church. When Jesus ascended into heaven He did not leave behind a Bible. He left an established Church. See Matthew 16:18. (In fact your use of the term Bible came from the Church as the term “Bible” is not found on the Bible)

You would want to come home to the Catholic Church to have the fullness of truth. Yes, if unknowingly you continue to never see the fullness of truth, we do have an infinitely merciful God and you can be saved through his Church without your awareness. But when we receive the Eucharist in the Mass we experience heaven on earth. That is the biggest difference for me. Protestants continue to look forward to heaven while Catholics can experience the resurrected Christ in the intimate union of the Eucharist.

Extra rules?? No, my friend. Extra gifts. I pray that someday you find these treasures and then we could meet again. I’ve had other conversations with Protestants like yourself and then walked with them through their journey. If it didn’t breech her confidence I would post an email that I recently received from a lady who spoke two years ago as you do now. She cannot wait for the Easter Vigil to receive the Eucharist. It cannot be explained in words. Our faith is an experience of Christ that is so intimate, so close that it must be known to be known.

Please leave no stone unturned. Ponder through everything that you read here and elsewhere concerning the Catholic faith. We only have one rule: Jesus Christ and our love for Him.

I pray that you will one day know this…teachccd

 

[wjp984]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. The reality is we should be thankful that the Church provides us with guidelines to help up obtain Heaven.

If there were no obligations then that wouldn’t change the fact that these things should be done in order to show our love for God and desire to be with Him in Heaven. The Church just makes it a lot easier by showing us rather than us having to figure it out all on our own.

 

[Ruthie]

Once we have the Spirit of love for Jesus, we want to obey out of love and don’t need the rules.

Without the rules, what is there to obey? What is “Love thy neighbor as thyself” if it isn’t a rule? What are the Commandments?

Can one treat something Jesus proposed as not-a-rule, and still fully love Him?

Mesl4, why not ask about specific rules? Perhaps we can help you understand why they are necessary.

God bless you,

Ruthie

 

[Ignatius]

What led me to post here is the . . . . . )

Jesus gave full Authority to His Church when he said “He who hears you hears me, he who rejects you rejects me”. When you reject the teaching of The Church, you are rejecting Christ.

 

[Jennifer_J]

So why would I want to convert to Catholicism if I can be saved as a Protestant without adding all the extra rules? I still seek to be pure and holy as a Protestant, and to obey, but my rules are fewer because we only use the Bible as our guide.

Ah, I said there was a chance but no guarantee. No one has that guarantee. The fact is the Catholic Church has the best thing going , we have Jesus in the Eucharist, BODY, BLOOD, SOUL and DIVINITY. The rules help us to be worthy to receive Him and help lead us to heaven. The rules keep us safe. They guide us. They make the road to heaven clearer (not necessarily easier).

 

[Jennifer_J]

Whether you want to obey that law or not, it is still a law. I like going the speed limit, or obeying other civil laws, but if I break them I’m still fined/jailed. So, the church makes laws and we can choose to obey or disobey. The point is, why does it have to be a law? If your whole identity in being a Christian is wrapped up in going to Church or receiving the Eucharist every wk, than I can understand I guess, but our identity as Christians should be much bigger than that. He came to dwell IN us! Our body is the temple. I don’t need to GO to a certain place to be with him. He is with me ALWAYS. Whether it is in the bathroom, bedroom, work, church building, or even in the valley of the shadow of death. He is there. That’s why I don’t understand why the RCs want to make it like we’re abandoning him if we don’t GO to a certain building at a certain time. Especially if we are there more than not, and then just happen to not go on a cetain day. The Bible speaks of it not mattering what day we go.THe church contradicts this.

It’s true that Jesus is with us always, dwelling within us, spiritually. However, the Catholic Church also has Jesus present in a more substantial way–in the Eucharist. Physically present. Sacramentally present. All the time. Once someone can truly realize this, how can one NOT be Catholic? How can one not want to attend Mass to receive that Jesus? What an awesome gift and one that the rules seek to protect AND that allow us to grow in relationship with Jesus.

 

[mesl4]

Did Jesus come to build a church, yes or no?

He came to make an atoning sacrifice for our sins, open heaven for us, and show us the Father. show us how to love him, eachother, and how much he loves us. I guess building a church was also important because that is what he called the gathering of his followers, but the gospel message to be preached was that the Savior had been raised from the dead and becase of his grace, he would give us new life through faith in him/

 

[mesl4]

, I would not join the Church either if I continued to think that the Catholic Church is what you say she is. I pray that you research further and know the truth about the Catholic Church. You will be surprised by what that truth can bring…God Bless…teachccd

I wasn’t saying that is what the Church is, just that I want to make sure that is NOT what she is before joining. I don’t want to risk my salvation.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

He came to make an atoning sacrifice for our sins, open heaven for us, and show us the Father. show us how to love him, eachother, and how much he loves us. I guess building a church was also important because that is what he called the gathering of his followers, but the gospel message to be preached was that the Savior had been raised from the dead and becase of his grace, he would give us new life through faith in him/

The question of rules or no rules is actually quite simple, my friend. You believe in following “just the Bible,” correct?

What are the Two Great Commandments?

36
“Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37
He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39
The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40
The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

If you follow those two basic rules…completely…you will automatically follow all of the rules you personally believe are “unnecessary” that the Church teaches. Sadly, you don’t want to follow those two rules completely because you hold back some of your love for God. Most people do, btw, so in that you have plenty of company.

Pax Christi,
Robert

 

[mesl4]

The question of rules or no rules is actually quite simple, my friend.

You believe in following “just the Bible,” correct?

 

[Exalt]

“God, I would prefer to lounge around the house/go shopping/watch football/sleep off my hangover/etc. rather than go to Mass for an hour to worship you and honor your mother, and receive you in holy Communion. Those things are just more important to me to even give you that bare minimum time that your Church has required me to worship at your Holy Sacrifice.”

That is the kind of attitude that is not open to communion with God and His transfiguring love. Not being receptive to that ultimate goodness is exactly what causes one’s damnation.

One time, I had this friend. He said he was going to let me take him out to dinner, but he stood me up. The next week, I took a trip to the Grand Canyon. Turns out my friend was there. We go for a walk along the ridge and he slips off a cliff. He’s hanging there by his finger tips. I, however, just walk away. After all, he didn’t show up to dinner. It’s only just. He wasn’t receptive to my goodness, and he suffered the consequences.