Could you clarify? Because I don’t see anything objectionable per se in that. The problem arises if the person thinks he can override truth divinely revealed to Christ’s one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.What is the objection of the Church, after it brings someone to know Jesus and getting the person baptized with the Holy Spirit, of letting that person be led by the Holy Spirit to their salvation? Isn’t a person’s salvation his or her own to be decided by them?
Who said we had a problem with the Holy Spirit guiding someone?What is the objection of the Church, after it brings someone to know Jesus and getting the person baptized with the Holy Spirit, of letting that person be led by the Holy Spirit to their salvation? Isn’t a person’s salvation his or her own to be decided by them?
In what ways have you heard that the Church “objects” to a baptised believer from accepting the grace for salvation? Salvation is an individual choice, though corporate in that Jesus founded a Church with means to achieve salvation (sacraments).What is the objection of the Church, after it brings someone to know Jesus and getting the person baptized with the Holy Spirit, of letting that person be led by the Holy Spirit to their salvation? Isn’t a person’s salvation his or her own to be decided by them?
What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God, that it was wrong to store up for their future, that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?In what ways have you heard that the Church “objects” to a baptised believer from accepting the grace for salvation? Salvation is an individual choice, though corporate in that Jesus founded a Church with means to achieve salvation (sacraments).
Dear Kathy,What is the objection of the Church, after it brings someone to know Jesus and getting the person baptized with the Holy Spirit, of letting that person be led by the Holy Spirit to their salvation? Isn’t a person’s salvation his or her own to be decided by them?
Here we are getting into subjectivity. It is very easy for us to fool ourselves into thinking the Holy Spirit is guiding us when what is actually happening is we are acting on what seems right to us or what makes us feel good. This is why Christ established his Church with a headship on earth (the pope) and a teaching authority (the Magisterium). If you follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church on these issues you cannot go wrong for it is the teaching of the Church on these major issues and is completely reliable for any Catholic to follow.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God, that it was wrong to store up for their future, that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?
Probably, that you will have a hard time functioning in society, given that most people refer to the person who conceived them as Father.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God
If you feel the Holy Spirit leading you to give away all your possessions, feel free. That’s what the monks and nuns have done, in response to the calling of the HS.that it was wrong to store up for their future
They would agree with you. Unless someone else was trying to kill you.that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?
Taken in proper biblical context, there is no contradiction between what the Church teaches and who alone is given the authority to properly interpret scripture, the sacred written Word of God. The key is: Proper interpretation of scripture taken in context.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God, that it was wrong to store up for their future, that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?
That’s not correct for more than one reason. The Church would not condemn me for killing to protect, say, my son. Likewise, the Church would not condemn for accepting the gift of martyrdom.They would agree with you. Unless someone else was trying to kill you.
Then you would have to say that St. Paul did not have the Holy Spirit because he calls himself and others not God fathers. Between Paul and some Joe saying x snippet of Scripture means not to call anyone father, I’ll take door 1.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God
The Church does not want people to live any other way. The Christian should listen to Jesus and follow his voice. The question is: where do we hear his voice. Many people make the claim to be following Jesus’ voice, and yet go off and do mutually contradictory things for the sake of the voice. So, unless we believe that Jesus doesn’t know what he’s saying, we must conclude that there are many well-intentioned people who think they are hearing Jesus’ voice, but, in fact, are not.(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
(John 12:48) “He who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
Now there is scripture to back up that a person baptized in the Holy Spirit will know Jesus voice and follow and that the Word that Jesus spoke will be that persons judge on the last day. You notice Jesus said the Word not the Church. If a person comes to know Jesus voice, and remember Jesus said that people who belong to him, would know his voice and follow no other. Now if that voice, Jesus, has that person living the Word as it is written. Why would the Church want this person ever to live any other way?
Note that in the written Word how Jesus identifies singularly with the Church when addresing Saul in the first person post resurrection:(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
(John 12:48) “He who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
Now there is scripture to back up that a person baptized in the Holy Spirit will know Jesus voice and follow and that the Word that Jesus spoke will be that persons judge on the last day. You notice Jesus said the Word not the Church. If a person comes to know Jesus voice, and remember Jesus said that people who belong to him, would know his voice and follow no other. Now if that voice, Jesus, has that person living the Word as it is written. Why would the Church want this person ever to live any other way?
Jesus also said to his apostles, “As the Father sent me, so I send you” and “He who hears you, hears me.” Listening to the Church IS listening to Christ because the Church now has Christ’s mission.(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
(John 12:48) “He who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
Now there is scripture to back up that a person baptized in the Holy Spirit will know Jesus voice and follow and that the Word that Jesus spoke will be that persons judge on the last day. You notice Jesus said the Word not the Church. If a person comes to know Jesus voice, and remember Jesus said that people who belong to him, would know his voice and follow no other. Now if that voice, Jesus, has that person living the Word as it is written. Why would the Church want this person ever to live any other way?
the Holy Spirit protects and guides the Catholic Church from teaching error, and it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to guide an individual to any belief or action contrary to clear Catholic dogmatic teaching. We have the personal assurance of Jesus Christ upon that point. If the individual discerns that the Holy Spirit is telling him to interpret scripture in conflict with the Catholic Church, the individual is in error, and will have to consider abandoning the supreme arrogance of putting his personal views against the clear 2000 yr old teaching of the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God, that it was wrong to store up for their future, that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?
What you have done here is typical of those who follow the “just Jesus and me” way of interpreting Scripture–you have taken verses out of context to force them to say what you want them to say. Plus, you have simply ignored any that balance them with the authority of the Church–the Church Jesus himself established.(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
(John 12:48) “He who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
Now there is scripture to back up that a person baptized in the Holy Spirit will know Jesus voice and follow and that the Word that Jesus spoke will be that persons judge on the last day. You notice Jesus said the Word not the Church. If a person comes to know Jesus voice, and remember Jesus said that people who belong to him, would know his voice and follow no other. Now if that voice, Jesus, has that person living the Word as it is written. Why would the Church want this person ever to live any other way?
Oh-you mean what if the Spirit told us to become Protestants.? Never happen. Christ founded his Church to be the receptacle of TRUFH for all time. the Spirit would never contradict that.What would the Church say if the Holy Spirit told a person not to call anyone father other than God, that it was wrong to store up for their future, that to kill someone for any reason was wrong?
It was actually the Protestant churches at the end of the 19th century who were predominantly referring to ministers as fathers. As I remember, an influx of Irish Catholics made Protestants notice this similarity in addressing ministers, so they changed their custom to separate themselves further from the Catholic Church. So…it is hardly a black and white issue.Then you would have to say that St. Paul did not have the Holy Spirit because he calls himself and others not God fathers. Between Paul and some Joe saying x snippet of Scripture means not to call anyone father, I’ll take door 1.
Would Jesus have multiple truths? Re-read what you have written above, Kathy, and think about this question.Now there is scripture to back up that a person baptized in the Holy Spirit will know Jesus voice and follow and that the Word that Jesus spoke will be that persons judge on the last day. You notice Jesus said the Word not the Church. If a person comes to know Jesus voice, and remember Jesus said that people who belong to him, would know his voice and follow no other. Now if that voice, Jesus, has that person living the Word as it is written. Why would the Church want this person ever to live any other way?