Why does the Father know something that the Son does not know?

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Mark 13:32 - “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

If the Father and the Son have one will, how does the Father know this and the Son does not?

Maybe there are other things that the Son does not know, that only the Father knows?
 
Here is my thought: The Son has a human nature and the divine nature. As God, the Son knows whatever the Father knows, by reason of the divine intellect. As man, the Son knows what his human intellect can know, and his human intellect is limited by the fact of being human.
 
Here is my thought: The Son has a human nature and the divine nature. As God, the Son knows whatever the Father knows, by reason of the divine intellect. As man, the Son knows what his human intellect can know, and his human intellect is limited by the fact of being human.
So as a man, there may been several (maybe many) things that Jesus did not know?
 
Having the same will and having the same knowledge are different things.

Only the Father knows the hour, but whenever the Father wills it, so too does Jesus will it and will go along with whatever the Father wills.
 
Having the same will and having the same knowledge are different things.

Only the Father knows the hour, but whenever the Father wills it, so too does Jesus will it and will go along with whatever the Father wills.
I guess that means the Father and the Son have the same will, but the Son has less knowledge than the Father? Or do they have different knowledge - meaning the Son knows something that the Father does not?
 
Saying “He knew in his divine nature, but not in His human nature” is a dangerous road to go down.

St. Hilary of Potiers talks about this in On the Trinity, IX, ca. 59 ff. He’s a bit wordy, so I’ll just quote this part where he sums it up:
  1. Whenever God says that He does not know, He professes ignorance indeed, but is not under the defect of ignorance. It is not because of the infirmity of ignorance that He does not know, but because it is not yet the time to speak, or the divine Plan to act. . . .
He goes on to talk about occasions where God the Father appears to say he is ignorant of certain things (e.g. Gen. 18:20-21).
 
Saying “He knew in his divine nature, but not in His human nature” is a dangerous road to go down.

St. Hilary of Potiers talks about this in On the Trinity, IX, ca. 59 ff. He’s a bit wordy, so I’ll just quote this part where he sums it up:
  1. Whenever God says that He does not know, He professes ignorance indeed, but is not under the defect of ignorance. It is not because of the infirmity of ignorance that He does not know, but because it is not yet the time to speak, or the divine Plan to act. . . .
So the New Testament could indeed be incomplete in many ways, because ‘it was not yet the time to speak’?

However saying that he does not know, when he actually does sounds like a ‘non-truth’ - it would have been better to say nothing at all? Maybe there are other such ‘non-truths’ in the New Testament?
 
So the New Testament could indeed be incomplete in many ways, because ‘it was not yet the time to speak’?
Not sure I get this statement. God withholding information does not make revelation “incomplete.” Revelation is, by definition, whatever God chooses to reveal, whether more or less. And that choice is based upon infinite wisdom and goodness. We’re not capable of knowing everything God knows, anyway.
However saying that he does not know, when he actually does sounds like a ‘non-truth’ - it would have been better to say nothing at all? Maybe there are other such ‘non-truths’ in the New Testament?
God is transcendent and communicates with us in a way fitting our comparative lowness. Think of a parent and child. Sometimes a father or mother says something which, if said to an equal and taken at face value would be untrue, but because of the relationship it is the right thing to say, and not a lie.

Suppose, for example, a three-year-old girl asks her daddy if he ever killed someone. At that time she equates “kill” with “murder.” To protect her innocence, he does not yet want to explain his involvement in the World War, in which he shot many soldiers. He says “no,” and he is telling the truth.
 
So as a man, there may been several (maybe many) things that Jesus did not know?
Well, here’s the thing. Jesus is one Person with two natures. He is fully divine AND fully human. As man, he has a human nature, with a human mind and a human will. Human nature is of necessity limited. The Gospel of Luke notes that as man, Jesus grew in wisdom. He learned things! That’s a part of being human.

As God, he knows everything. But we are in no position to psychoanalyze the hypostatic union. Jesus is fully divine and fully man. Did Jesus, as man, continuously access the divine intellect or did he rely on his human intellect in his human interactions? I have no idea.
 
So the New Testament could indeed be incomplete in many ways, because ‘it was not yet the time to speak’?
Why assume that the New Testament (or the bible as a whole) is meant to be the entire teaching?
However saying that he does not know, when he actually does sounds like a ‘non-truth’ - it would have been better to say nothing at all? Maybe there are other such ‘non-truths’ in the New Testament?
You have to understand that God is all knowing and as humans were are not able to even get a remote understanding of God. For a poor analogy, it is like you explaining the meaning of life to a monkey. We are just not capable of understanding the fullness of God so sometimes God’s intent does not translate fully to something that meshes well with our level of understanding.

For instance, I don’t think we will completely understand the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit until we enter Heaven. It’s a relationship unlike anything we know of on earth so we can’t quite grasp it fully, IMO. I think we only understand it well enough to properly worship.
 
So the New Testament could indeed be incomplete in many ways, because ‘it was not yet the time to speak’?
Actually what was given was enough. Even though He did and said many things that weren’t recorded John 21:25
o:
However saying that he does not know, when he actually does sounds like a ‘non-truth’ - it would have been better to say nothing at all? Maybe there are other such ‘non-truths’ in the New Testament?
Actually in #474 He says He was not sent to reveal certain things.

470 471 472 473 474

Here are some answers from the Early Church Fathers to your question
archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9301frs.asp
 
Jesus had to be the perfect man as a man in order to fulfill all.

He had a human will which was not Father’s will but followed the Father’s will.

He did not know the hour that end will come but had to trust in God.

He also had to claim that the Father is greater than He.

These things had to be done as a perfect man, a humble man, who would die on a sinners cross. It’s God’s will that Jesus would be a perfect human being and that can only be done if He’s completely human.
 
Is see God the Father being associated with knowledge and creation; God the Son is the eternally Begotten. So maybe the knowledge, in a sense, originates in the Father and is realized in the Son.
 
[Mark 13:32 But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.]

St Athanasius of Alexandria (Doctor of the Church) says:

Now why it was that, though He knew, He did not tell His disciples plainly at that time, no one may be curious where He has been silent; for ‘Who hath known the mind of the Lord, or who hath been His counsellor?’ but why, though He knew, He said, ‘no, not the Son knows,’ this I think none of the faithful is ignorant, viz. that He made this as those other declarations as man by reason of the flesh. For this as before is not the Word’s deficiency, but of that human nature whose property it is to be ignorant. And this again will be well seen by honestly examining into the occasion, when and to whom the Saviour spoke thus. Not then when the heaven was made by Him, nor when He was with the Father Himself, the Word ‘disposing all things,’ nor before He became man did He say it, but when ‘the Word became flesh.’ On this account it is reasonable to ascribe to His manhood everything which, after He became man, He speaks humanly. For it is proper to the Word to know what was made, nor be ignorant either of the beginning or of the end of these (for the works are His), and He knows how many things He wrought, and the limit of their consistence. And knowing of each the beginning and the end, He knows surely the general and common end of all. Certainly when He says in the Gospel concerning Himself in His human character, ‘Father, the hour is come, glorify Thy Son,’ it is plain that He knows also the hour of the end of all things, as the Word, though as man He is ignorant of it, for ignorance is proper to man, and especially ignorance of these things. Moreover this is proper to the Saviour’s love of man; for since He was made man, He is not ashamed, because of the flesh which is ignorant, to say ‘I know not,’ that He may shew that knowing as God, He is but ignorant according to the flesh. And therefore He said not, ‘no, not the Son of God knows,’ lest the Godhead should seem ignorant, but simply, ‘no, not the Son,’ that the ignorance might be the Son’s as born from among men.
 
Why assume that the New Testament (or the bible as a whole) is meant to be the entire teaching?
Fair enough. This also means we should be open to new teachings - maybe even with differences with the old one - ie we should not keep our minds closed to the possibility of a fuller revelation that may at times contradict the previous one.
You have to understand that God is all knowing and as humans were are not able to even get a remote understanding of God. For a poor analogy, it is like you explaining the meaning of life to a monkey. We are just not capable of understanding the fullness of God so sometimes God’s intent does not translate fully to something that meshes well with our level of understanding.

For instance, I don’t think we will completely understand the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit until we enter Heaven. It’s a relationship unlike anything we know of on earth so we can’t quite grasp it fully, IMO. I think we only understand it well enough to properly worship.
So we are not completely able to understand the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit while we are on Earth. Perhaps our current understanding is not that accurate? Maybe quite a bit inaccurate? Should we grant this possibility at all?
 
Fair enough. This also means we should be open to new teachings - maybe even with differences with the old one - ie we should not keep our minds closed to the possibility of a fuller revelation that may at times contradict the previous one.
Yes and no. Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to teach and dicern God’s word. That authority has been passed down to through Peter to today’s bishops. So, yes, new revelations may happen but it will be the duty of the Bishops to dicern if something is a revelation.
So we are not completely able to understand the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit while we are on Earth. Perhaps our current understanding is not that accurate? Maybe quite a bit inaccurate? Should we grant this possibility at all?
No, our understanding is sufficient to know there is a Trinity and enough about the nature of the relationship to worship God as he intends. It’s more like you know what a father is but if you didn’t have one or are not one you really don’t know the fullness of the relationship. Also, it similar to languages in that not everything has a direct correlation from one language to another. So, the relationship between father and son as we know it is a lot like the relationship between God and Jesus but also in some ways it is probably different. You can certainly know enough about a subject to be an expert in the subject yet you probably can’t claim to know everything.
 
The problem I see is that if you go by the idea that Jesus was speaking from his human nature, it portrays Jesus as having some kind of multiple personality disorder. Who knows what else he said solely from his human nature? Also, it shows Jesus as not being omniscient, which is one of the necessary qualities for being God.
Suppose, for example, a three-year-old girl asks her daddy if he ever killed someone. At that time she equates “kill” with “murder.” To protect her innocence, he does not yet want to explain his involvement in the World War, in which he shot many soldiers. He says “no,” and he is telling the truth.
I’m not sure this analogy holds since if we state that there are multiple definitions of “knowing” something, it demonstrates Jesus as not being all-God.
 
Yes and no. Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to teach and dicern God’s word. That authority has been passed down to through Peter to today’s bishops. So, yes, new revelations may happen but it will be the duty of the Bishops to dicern if something is a revelation.
No doubt it the duty of the Bishops to discern the authenticity of a new revelation. However, this is afterall the 21st century - we should not hesitate to think for ourselves - individually as well as as a community.
No, our understanding is sufficient to know there is a Trinity and enough about the nature of the relationship to worship God as he intends. It’s more like you know what a father is but if you didn’t have one or are not one you really don’t know the fullness of the relationship. Also, it similar to languages in that not everything has a direct correlation from one language to another. So, the relationship between father and son as we know it is a lot like the relationship between God and Jesus but also in some ways it is probably different. You can certainly know enough about a subject to be an expert in the subject yet you probably can’t claim to know everything.
Undoubtedly the relationship is that of a Father to a Son, I am not questioning that - Jesus has said precisely that and we should take him at his word (he is divine - he could not have misspoken). However, I do wonder if the church doctrine that Jesus is equal (or co-equal) to the Father is entirely accurate. Jesus himself has said that there are things the Father knows that he does not. Again we should take him at his word instead of trying to change the meaning (for emotional or political reasons). Maybe Jesus is not equal to the Father in certain respects? (This does not mean he is not divine or that he is not God)
 
It would be worthy of your diligence to set the phrases of the Gospel side by side, and compare together those of Matthew and those of Mark, for these two alone are found in concurrence in this passage. The wording of Matthew is “of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” That of Mark runs, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” What is noticeable in these passages is this; that Matthew says nothing about the ignorance of the Son, and seems to agree with Mark as to sense in saying “but my Father only.” Now I understand the word “only” to have been used in contradistinction to the angels, but that the Son is not included with His own servants in ignorance.
He could not say what is false Who said “All things that the Father hath are Mine,” but one of the things which the Father hath is knowledge of that day and of that hour. In the passage in Matthew, then, the Lord made no mention of His own Person, as a matter beyond controversy, and said that the angels knew not and that His Father alone knew, tacitly asserting the knowledge of His Father to be His own knowledge too, because of what He had said elsewhere, “as the Father knoweth me even so know I the Father,”and if the Father has complete knowledge of the Son, nothing excepted, so that He knows all knowledge to dwell in Him, He will clearly be known as fully by the Son with all His inherent wisdom and all His knowledge of things to come. This modification, I think, may be given to the words of Matthew, “but my Father only.” Now as to the words of Mark, who appears distinctly to exclude the Son from the knowledge, my opinion is this. No man knoweth, neither the angels of God; nor yet the Son would have known unless the Father had known: that is, the cause of the Son’s knowing comes from the Father. To a fair hearer there is no violence in this interpretation, because the word “only” is not added as it is in Matthew. Mark’s sense, then, is as follows: of that day and of that hour knoweth no man, nor the angels of God; but even the Son would not have known if the Father had not known, for the knowledge naturally His was given by the Father. This is very decorous and becoming the divine nature to say of the Son, because He has, His knowledge and His being, beheld in all the wisdom and glory which become His Godhead, from Him with Whom He is consubstantial.
Their tenth objection is the ignorance, and the statement that Of the last day and hour knoweth no man, not even the Son Himself, but the Father. And yet how can Wisdom be ignorant of anything—that is, Wisdom Who made the worlds, Who perfects them, Who remodels them, Who is the Limit of all things that were made, Who knoweth the things of God as the spirit of a man knows the things that are in him? For what can be more perfect than this knowledge? How then can you say that all things before that hour He knows accurately, and all things that are to happen about the time of the end, but of the hour itself He is ignorant? For such a thing would be like a riddle; as if one were to say that he knew accurately all that was in front of the wall, but did not know the wall itself; or that, knowing the end of the day, he did not know the beginning of the night—where knowledge of the one necessarily brings in the other. Thus everyone must see that He knows as God, and knows not as Man;—if one may separate the visible from that which is discerned by thought alone. For the absolute and unconditioned use of the Name “The Son” in this passage, without the addition of whose Son, gives us this thought, that we are to understand the ignorance in the most reverent sense, by attributing it to the Manhood, and not to the Godhead.
St Gregory Nazianzen the Theologian (Doctor of the Church), Oration XXX
Source: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207.iii.xvi.html
 
By saying, not the angels, He stopped their mouths, that they should not seek to learn what these angels know not; and by saying, “neither the Son,” forbids them not only to learn, but even to inquire. For in proof that therefore He said this, see after His resurrection, when He saw they were become over curious, how He stopped their mouths more decidedly. For now indeed He hath mentioned infallible signs, many and endless; but then He saith merely, “It is not for you to know times or seasons.” And then that they might not say, we are driven to perplexity, we are utterly scorned, we are not held worthy so much as of this, He says, “which the Father hath put in His own power.” And this, because He was exceedingly careful to honor them, and to conceal nothing from them. Therefore He refers it to His Father, both to make the thing awful, and to exclude that of which He had spoken from their inquiry. Since if it be not this, but He is ignorant of it, when will He know it? Will it be together with us? But who would say this? And the Father He knoweth clearly, even as clearly as He knoweth the Son; and of the day is He ignorant? Moreover, “the Spirit indeed searcheth even the deep things of God,” and doth not He know so much as the time of the judgment? But how He ought to judge He knoweth, and of the secrets of each He hath a full perception; and what is far more common than that, of this could He be ignorant? And how, if “all things were made by Him, and without Him was not even one thing made,”was He ignorant of the day? For He who made the worlds, it is quite plain that He made the times also; and if the times, even that day. How then is He ignorant of that which He made?
The advice, Brethren, which ye have just heard Scripture give, when it tells us to watch for the last day, every one should think of as concerning his own last day; lest haply when ye judge or think the last day of the world to be far distant, ye slumber with respect to your own last day. Ye have heard what Jesus said concerning the last day of this world, “That neither the Angels of heaven, nor the Son knew it, but the Father.” Where indeed there is a great difficulty, lest understanding this in a carnal way, we think that the Father knoweth anything which the Son knoweth not. For indeed when He said, “the Father knoweth it;” He said this because in the Father the Son also knoweth it. For what is there in a day which was not made by the Word, by whom the day was made? Let no one then search out for the last Day, when it is to be; but let us watch all by our good lives, lest the last day of any one of us find us unprepared, and such as any one shall depart hence on his last day, such he be found in the last day of the world. Nothing will then assist thee which thou shalt not have done here. His own works will succour, or his own works will overwhelm every one.
 
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