Why does the Holy Cloud of Mt. Tabor only cover the Orthodox church and not the Catholic ones as well?

[CatholicHere_Hi]

Each year, on the date of the transfiguration of Our Lord. A holy cloud, no matter how clear the skies are, will fall upon and cover the Orthodox monastery. It won’t cover the “heretical” (using their words) churches, including the Catholic churches.

The Miraculous Holy Cloud of Mount Tabor

www.johnsanidopoulos.com

If the Catholic Church is the one true Church, why is it neglected in this miracle?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Huh? Try asking your question again.

Are you suggesting that this cloud is supposed to pop up somewhere else? Based on what evidence?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Yeah… if it’s a cloud specific to Mt. Tabor, and there is an Orthodox Church on Mt. Tabor, then it is not surprising that the cloud descends on the Orthodox Church. I imagine, if it a miraculous occurrence, that it did the same when it was a Catholic Church, before the schism.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In order to even discuss this, we would have to first establish that some “miraculous” cloud actually does this. The discussions I have seen about this “miracle” pretty much say it’s fog and that no scientific analysis of this happening has ever been carried out.

I personally see some fog descending on a mountain somewhere, just like I see fog descending on certain mountains in my area. There is nothing “miraculous” about a cloud or fog.

If there happens to be some Orthodox church sitting on the mountain, then the fog covers it. If you don’t have a Catholic church built right next to it that is miraculously fog-free, this whole thing doesn’t even make sense.

 

[Genesis315]

I clicked the link and it was pretty hard to make out what was going on given the transitions in the videos. I did a google image search for it and didn’t see anything unusual. Is there a video with a wide shot showing it materializing over the monastery?

 

[babochka]

In order to even discuss this, we would have to first establish that some “miraculous” cloud actually does this. The discussions I have seen about this “miracle” pretty much say it’s fog and that no scientific analysis of this happening has ever been carried out.

I personally see some fog descending on a mountain somewhere, just like I see fog descending on certain mountains in my area. There is nothing “miraculous” about a cloud or fog.

If there happens to be some Orthodox church sitting on the mountain, then the fog covers it. If you don’t have a Catholic church built right next to it that is miraculously fog-free, this whole thing doesn’t even make sense.

Right. In certain places, at certain times of the year, one can count on a 3 p.m. rain shower. Every single day, the rains come at exactly the same time. If I were to build a church there, the rains would still come every day at 3 p.m. during that season of the year. And if I were to hold Good Friday services in that church and everybody in the church prayed for rain to come at 3 p.m., at the end of the church service, the rain would fall. Every year on Good Friday.

 

[Genesis315]

Yeah, plus it bears pointing out that the Catholic Church currently there wasn’t built until the 20th century. I don’t think they tried to build it in the path of a cloud. If they did and the cloud took a detour around them, then that would be something!

 

[CatholicHere_Hi]

What is the explanation for the reddish-white color that brightens the area, and the distinct fragrance it carries? Isn’t this similar to what happened in Scripture during the Transfiguration?

Right. In certain places, at certain times of the year, one can count on a 3 p.m. rain shower. Every single day, the rains come at exactly the same time. If I were to build a church there, the rains would still come every day at 3 p.m. during that season of the year. And if I were to hold Good Friday services in that church and everybody in the church prayed for rain to come at 3 p.m., at the end of the church service, the rain would fall. Every year on Good Friday.

@babochka, this only happens one time a year though. Isn’t that odd?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Based on the video, the color is pretty easy. It’s their lights. Have you ever seen how light spreads in fog? It looks pretty much exactly like what we see in the video.

As for the smell, are they burning incense? We have to remember, fog is essentially water in the air. That’s what causes light to have the properties it does, and could also result in the ash of the incense being carried all throughout the area.

It could also be miraculous, who knows? They’ve never done a study on it in the way the Catholic Church studies supposed miracles, so it’s hard to say. It’s another instance like the Holy Fire. I can see multiple natural explanations for the event, so I’ll stick with those until they are ruled out.

Catholics don’t discount the potential for God to perform miracles in places other than Catholic territories. It’s building up the faith of those believers, even if that faith isn’t 100% aligned with His will. Catholicism has plenty of miracles to it’s name, we’re happy to share with our Orthodox brothers and sisters.

(Watching it more, that coloration is clearly the result of the lights used to illuminate the fog so it could be filmed)

 

[CatholicHere_Hi]

Catholicism has plenty of miracles to it’s name, we’re happy to share with our Orthodox brothers and sisters

Are there any ones that specifically endorse Catholicism over Eastern Orthodox though? (Ex: ONLY a Catholic could receive the miracle)

 

[mrsdizzyd]

ProdglArchitect:

Catholicism has plenty of miracles to it’s name, we’re happy to share with our Orthodox brothers and sisters

Are there any ones that specifically endorse Catholicism over Eastern Orthodox though? (Ex: ONLY a Catholic could receive the miracle)

Why would it? Christ came to unite not divide. He founded but one church not thousands with their own mountain top clouds.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I’m going to echo MrsDizzyD. Why would there be?

I would say the vast number of verified miracles in the Church is a pretty good indicator. Both Churches claim a large number of miracles, but as mentioned, Orthodoxy does not tend to do the rigorous scientific study of a reported miracle before declaring it a miracle.

To give you an idea of how strenuous the study is, look at Lourdes. There have been, literally, thousands of reported miracles from Lourdes. To date, I believe only 57 of them have been verified and acknowledged by the Church. If there was any conceivable natural explanation, a miracle was discounted.

 

[catholic1seeks]

And what, so do Fatima and Lourdes prove that Mary intercedes for Catholics only and no other Christians?

Sigh. Yawn.

Catholics have a lot of miracles too!

 

[Genesis315]

Are there any ones that specifically endorse Catholicism over Eastern Orthodox though? (Ex: ONLY a Catholic could receive the miracle)

Jesus said others would do miracles in his name. The EO’s trying to make it seem like only they can do miracles runs counter to Our Lord’s own words:

Mark 9:[37] John answered him, saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us, and we forbade him. [38] But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name, and can soon speak ill of me.

 

[CatholicHere_Hi]

And what, so do Fatima and Lourdes prove that Mary intercedes for Catholics only and no other Christians?

Ive been meaning to ask…are those apparitions strictly Catholic?

Granted, I haven’t done thorough research on them, but haven’t really noticed anything specifically Catholic about them other than the fact they are approved by the Catholic Church.

The only thing I noticed is Mary mentions “Holy Father” but never clarfies if she meant the Pope.

I believe Eastern Orthodox pray the rosary as well. Wasn’t the Eastern tradition the one that “invented” the rosary?

 

[CatholicHere_Hi]

imagine, if it a miraculous occurrence, that it did the same when it was a Catholic Church, before the schism.

Another thing I wanted to ask about…

The EO will claim that they were the true church the whole time pre-schism. Wouldn’t the fact that Rome doesn’t receive this miracle post-schism verify their position?

 

[Cruciferi]

Holy Fire Thread 2.0?

 

[thistle]

The EO will claim that they were the true church the whole time pre-schism. Wouldn’t the fact that Rome doesn’t receive this miracle post-schism verify their position?

The Orthodox are a schismatic part of the Catholic Church.

What miracle? I don’t believe this is a miracle. What extensive and transparent investigations were done to come to such a conclusion?

Also who says Mount Tabor is the mountain the Transfiguration took place on?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Is someone out back of the Orthodox church throwing dry ice in the pond?

 

[ZMystiCat]

Ive been meaning to ask…are those apparitions strictly Catholic?

Well, Mary seems to care a lot about Catholics.

For Guadalupe, St. Juan Diego was Catholic, and her appearance aided the spread of Catholicism in the Americas.

For Lourdes, St. Bernadette was also Catholic, and she reported that Mary “prayed” the Rosary along with her. It’s also significant that this occurred in France, which is historically significant to Catholics, at a time where France’s Catholic roots were being challenged.

For Fatima, all three children were Catholic, and Portugal, like France, is historically Catholic. Also like with Lourdes, the Catholic Church in Portugal was struggling. This is before getting into the secrets, particularly the Third Secret.

These are just the three major ones I’ve had a little bit of exposure to, but as far as I’m aware, there are many more. These alone seem to signal that, at the very least, Mary cares about Catholics and doesn’t seem too interested in pulling us to Eastern Orthodoxy.

I believe Eastern Orthodox pray the rosary as well. Wasn’t the Eastern tradition the one that “invented” the rosary?

The Eastern Orthodox have prayer ropes and the Jesus Prayer, but I don’t think the Rosary is standard, though it is prayed by some. From what I’ve heard, this also goes for Eastern Catholics, so it appears to be a mostly East/West thing, not a Catholic/Orthodox thing. That said, the Rosary has sort of become a Catholic symbol, so it’s significant that Mary would carry one with her.