Why does the same old anti-Catholic rhetoric come up?

[tigerprowl]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

Here is my latest example. In a conversation I just had with someone who identifies as a “none” - no specific religion:

*“Since when does Catholicism equal Christ? There are lots of different Christian religions not based on Rome’s reign. Catholics pray to Mary…she can’t help you at all.”

“I’m bewildered at your reverence to a religion based on tyranny…trying to control the masses…that’s probably why Catholics call it mass.”

“Jesus was no Catholic. I’d rather convert to Judaism than Catholicism.”*

I countered with this:

"Wow. Lots of hatred and misinformation there. Completely wrong about Mary. There are examples from scripture involving intercession. And sorry, the early church is the Catholic church (I did mention the schism and Orthodox as well).

I’m curious - were you probing for a chance to slap down this anti-Catholic rhetoric given an opportunity? That’s a part of my identity and I am not asking you or anyone else to believe or embrace it. Please don’t stomp all over the Eucharist and prayers to Mary (both of which are practiced by some mainline Protestant religions as well)."

Granted I could have countered with a lot more, but there is so much misinformation here. My feeling is that if someone is trying to decide between Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity (this person is someone I know well), that person is thoroughly confused and needs to research all of these faiths.

Mentioning that Jesus was no Catholic is irrelevant - we all know that. The “praying to Mary” and “embracing a religion based on tyrrany” comments are just offensive.

Sorry to vent. These arguments get really old. I am no apologetic, but wow. Venting done!

 

[1ke]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

Of course this is a rhetorical question, because there are as many answers as there are people. I’m sure you recognize many do not believe the so-called “debunking”. Books are in libraries, pastors who believe these things give sermons, and of course anyone can slap up a web page so the internet is full of junk.

People are gullible. People are fallible. The devil is active.

Pick one. Or all of the above.

Granted I could have countered with a lot more, but there is so much misinformation here.

If this is Facebook, comment section of some website or blog, etc, I think you are just wasting your time. If you have a relationship with people, **TALK **to them. Posting things back and forth rarely yields any progress.

 

[tigerprowl]

Thanks for the reply. It is just a frustration of mine to see these topics brought up by friends and acquaintances of mine.

*If this is Facebook, comment section of some website or blog, etc, I think you are just wasting your time. If you have a relationship with people, **TALK *to them. Posting things back and forth rarely yields any progress.

Oh no, this is not Facebook or a blog. This is an email conversation between me and someone I personally know. Open internet forums like Facebook are awful for this type of dialog.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I think a lot of people who hear anti-Catholic rhetoric during a sermon merely nod assent and never bother to check the facts for themselves. I remember well a girl from school who told me I wasn’t a Christian because I’m Catholic, even though I fit her definition of a Christian (a believer in Jesus Christ) because, as she put it, “My minister said Catholics aren’t Christians, and he’s a good man, so he wouldn’t lie to me.” Apparently, it never occurred to her that he could be a good man yet still mistaken.

If you’re having problems in your conversation with this person, I highly recommend John Martignoni’s talks which you can find here:

biblechristiansociety.com/download

 

[coachdennis]

I think a lot of people who hear anti-Catholic rhetoric during a sermon merely nod assent and never bother to check the facts for themselves. I remember well a girl from school who told me I wasn’t a Christian because I’m Catholic, even though I fit her definition of a Christian (a believer in Jesus Christ) because, as she put it, “My minister said Catholics aren’t Christians, and he’s a good man, so he wouldn’t lie to me.” Apparently, it never occurred to her that he could be a good man yet still mistaken.

If you’re having problems in your conversation with this person, I highly recommend John Martignoni’s talks which you can find here:

biblechristiansociety.com/download

I would also add that it is human nature to attack any organizations that are bigger than other organizations just because they are bigger. Also, remember that many of these individuals and/or groups own self-esteem can be tied to putting other groups down.

Most of them are not interested in the truth if the truth means contradicting their world view.

Taking it out of the world of religion, I heard a statistic that 90% of the potential voters in this country have already decided if they will vote democratic or republican. Their minds are already made up unless something radical changes their view. That means our next president will be decided by about 10% of the population.

Now back to religion – most of these people have already decided about Catholicism. This is why evangelization needs to be rooted in the spirit and faith. Only the Spirit can change hearts – we can be instruments but not the source

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Honestly, it’s just plain old ignorance. I doubt it’s malicious in most cases, people simply don’t know and don’t bother taking the time to learn. They regurgitate things they hear without even putting them through the basic rigors of though and consideration; or they twist reality to suit their preconceived notions.

It’s sad, and try as we might I doubt it will go away until Christ comes again in His glory.

 

[steve_b]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

Here is my latest example. In a conversation I just had with someone who identifies as a “none” - no specific religion:

“Since when does Catholicism equal Christ? There are lots of different Christian religions not based on Rome’s reign. Catholics pray to Mary…she can’t help you at all.”

“I’m bewildered at your reverence to a religion based on tyranny…trying to control the masses…that’s probably why Catholics call it mass.”

“Jesus was no Catholic. I’d rather convert to Judaism than Catholicism.”

I countered with this:

"Wow. Lots of hatred and misinformation there. Completely wrong about Mary. There are examples from scripture involving intercession. And sorry, the early church is the Catholic church (I did mention the schism and Orthodox as well).

I’m curious - were you probing for a chance to slap down this anti-Catholic rhetoric given an opportunity? That’s a part of my identity and I am not asking you or anyone else to believe or embrace it. Please don’t stomp all over the Eucharist and prayers to Mary (both of which are practiced by some mainline Protestant religions as well)."

Granted I could have countered with a lot more, but there is so much misinformation here. My feeling is that if someone is trying to decide between Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity (this person is someone I know well), that person is thoroughly confused and needs to research all of these faiths.

Mentioning that Jesus was no Catholic is irrelevant - we all know that. The “praying to Mary” and “embracing a religion based on tyrrany” comments are just offensive.

Sorry to vent. These arguments get really old. I am no apologetic, but wow. Venting done!

Vent away … it’s cathartic

Here’s some points your opponant will no doubt get a headache over as well

• In His divinity, Jesus is outside of time. Outside of time, there is no concept of yesterday, today and tomorrow. No concept of day, month year, etc. It’s the eternal now. Because we struggle getting our heads around such an idea, Peter made this analogy [2 Peter 3:8](2 - - Bible Gateway Peter+3:8&version=RSVCE)
• When the 2nd person of the Trinity incarnated, and came into time, we know He didn’t cease being divine. Everything He knows in His divinity is always there…including His incarnation, and His body the Church, the Catholic Church.

Since Our Lord’s Church is the ONLY Church He established, the Catholic Church, #[34 (http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11997086&postcount=34) then it can be said Jesus is every bit as much Catholic as He is Jewish… right? Afterall, before anything was, He is. And Jesus knew from all eternity He would incarnate, take His body from Mary, and His body is also His Church, the Catholic Church. Therefore, Mary too, is not only Catholic, she is also the mother of God and the mother of the Catholic Church, and she’s our mother as well.

I can just see your opponant (in advance) reaching for the bottle of aspirin.

 

[DCNBILL]

I believe a lot of the rhetoric comes from guilt.

Many of those who come on here with those type of statements seem to have a lot of anger, I believe this anger stems from guilt from the way that they are living their lives and The Church stands in contradiction to them.

 

[steve_b]

I believe a lot of the rhetoric comes from guilt.

Many of those who come on here with those type of statements seem to have a lot of anger, I believe this anger stems from guilt from the way that they are living their lives and The Church stands in contradiction to them.

agreed.

 

[Patti_M]

I understand what you’re saying. I live in an area that is very anti-catholic. The misinformation is overwhelming and I can’t even begin to correct what has been instilled in them since birth. I know I’m supposed to try but there’s only so many hours in the day.

 

[Memaw]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

Here is my latest example. In a conversation I just had with someone who identifies as a “none” - no specific religion:

*“Since when does Catholicism equal Christ? There are lots of different Christian religions not based on Rome’s reign. Catholics pray to Mary…she can’t help you at all.”

“I’m bewildered at your reverence to a religion based on tyranny…trying to control the masses…that’s probably why Catholics call it mass.”

“Jesus was no Catholic. I’d rather convert to Judaism than Catholicism.”*

I countered with this:

"Wow. Lots of hatred and misinformation there. Completely wrong about Mary. There are examples from scripture involving intercession. And sorry, the early church is the Catholic church (I did mention the schism and Orthodox as well).

I’m curious - were you probing for a chance to slap down this anti-Catholic rhetoric given an opportunity? That’s a part of my identity and I am not asking you or anyone else to believe or embrace it. Please don’t stomp all over the Eucharist and prayers to Mary (both of which are practiced by some mainline Protestant religions as well)."

Granted I could have countered with a lot more, but there is so much misinformation here. My feeling is that if someone is trying to decide between Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity (this person is someone I know well), that person is thoroughly confused and needs to research all of these faiths.

Mentioning that Jesus was no Catholic is irrelevant - we all know that. The “praying to Mary” and “embracing a religion based on tyrrany” comments are just offensive.

Sorry to vent. These arguments get really old. I am no apologetic, but wow. Venting done!

I tell my non-Catholic friends that come up with these "OLD, tried and found NOT true lines that if they would just spend as much time on their love for Jesus as they do their “hate Catholics nonsense,” they would be a ““saint””. God Bless, Memaw

 

[steve_b]

I understand what you’re saying. I live in an area that is very anti-catholic. The misinformation is overwhelming and I can’t even begin to correct what has been instilled in them since birth. I know I’m supposed to try but there’s only so many hours in the day.

I’m convinced Paul gave us the following, because he didn’t have time to spend arguing with stubborn people, so he cuts to the chase so that we don’t waste OUR time either.

Titus 3:10
“As for a man who is factious ( αἱρετικὸν heretic ), after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.”

Paul knew his time on earth was limited. How does he reach as many as he can who are already open and waiting to embrace truth? Volume!!! Don’t get stuck with the stubborn,… Move on.

I think Paul is saying to each individual, if there are 1000 converts out there just waiting for you to talk to them, how long would it take you to find them?

 

[tigerprowl]

I understand what you’re saying. I live in an area that is very anti-catholic. The misinformation is overwhelming and I can’t even begin to correct what has been instilled in them since birth. I know I’m supposed to try but there’s only so many hours in the day.

Wow, I give you a lot of credit. I have only been to Texas a couple of times, and while it wasn’t on my mind while there, I have to think that Catholicism in the extreme minority and is an easy target.

We talk about moving to NC, so I am sure I may run into it there on occasion. Funny thing is I went to college @ Clemson University, and aside from a few isolated comments, most non-Catholics were okay. I guess some are more zealous than others.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Maybe because most Catholics are easy prey and do not know their faith well enough to respond properly?

 

[Peter_J]

Or there’s also the flip side of this question: what can be done about it?

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I find that a lot of the anti-Catholic rhetoric comes from ignorance. They aren’t educated about about Catholicism at all. If research was done, they would at least see where the CC is coming from (hopefully), even if the don’t agree with it.

 

[Ignatius]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

Here is my latest example. In a conversation I just had with someone who identifies as a “none” - no specific religion:

*“Since when does Catholicism equal Christ? There are lots of different Christian religions not based on Rome’s reign. Catholics pray to Mary…she can’t help you at all.”

“I’m bewildered at your reverence to a religion based on tyranny…trying to control the masses…that’s probably why Catholics call it mass.”

“Jesus was no Catholic. I’d rather convert to Judaism than Catholicism.”*

I countered with this:

"Wow. Lots of hatred and misinformation there. Completely wrong about Mary. There are examples from scripture involving intercession. And sorry, the early church is the Catholic church (I did mention the schism and Orthodox as well).

I’m curious - were you probing for a chance to slap down this anti-Catholic rhetoric given an opportunity? That’s a part of my identity and I am not asking you or anyone else to believe or embrace it. Please don’t stomp all over the Eucharist and prayers to Mary (both of which are practiced by some mainline Protestant religions as well)."

Granted I could have countered with a lot more, but there is so much misinformation here. My feeling is that if someone is trying to decide between Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity (this person is someone I know well), that person is thoroughly confused and needs to research all of these faiths.

Mentioning that Jesus was no Catholic is irrelevant - we all know that. The “praying to Mary” and “embracing a religion based on tyrrany” comments are just offensive.

Sorry to vent. These arguments get really old. I am no apologetic, but wow. Venting done!

I’ve noticed this to. Someone makes a false, strawman accusation based on their misinformation. We correct them and give them what The Church really teaches and show them where it can be found in Scripture or Church documents so they are now properly informed. They seem to acknowledge it or just ignore it an go away. Then, a few weeks or months later, they make essentially the same false strawman accusation, just slightly reworded. Like rewarding the same false information makes it different.
It’s as if they don’t really and sincerely want to learn what Authentic Catholic teachings are at all.

 

[Kay_Cee]

It seems to me there’s something of a need to believe anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Imagine you’ve been told such things all your life by people who love you and whom you love and trust. Imagine you’ve passed them down to your children. Imagine you’re so glad you’re Protestant because the Catholic Church “went off the rails.”

And then one day a Catholic tells you all those things you’ve been brought up to believe about the Catholic Church simply aren’t true.

I imagine there would be a huge psychological resistance, *even if the Catholic can prove what he’s saying. * Wouldn’t you want to believe you hadn’t been misled? Wouldn’t you want to believe you hadn’t gotten it wrong all those years? Wouldn’t an urge to hold on to what you’ve been taught be especially strong if you’ve been telling others the same anti-Catholic rhetoric for years?

Someone–I think it may have been Scott Hahn–once said something like, “You cradle Catholics don’t know what it’s like to wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat with the realization that all those things you’ve believed and taught could have been a lie.”

So, unless they’re being totally obstinate by refusing to even verify what I’m saying, I try to cut anti-Catholics a little slack. They’re dealing with a lot.

 

[icamhif]

I am curious - why does the same rhetoric come up, time and time again, when the rhetoric has been thoroughly debunked time and again?

For the same reason that some adherents of any belief system bring bad arguments to the table: Some are new to apologetics and are ignorant about the beliefs of other people, so they bring up the same-old bumper-sticker slogans that sound persuasive to them but are really just straw-man.

Don’t worry. It’s so easy to feel like you’re in the defensive side, when really, it just shows the opponent’s own weakness.

 

[Mimi]

Don’t worry. It’s so easy to feel like you’re in the defensive side, when really, it just shows the opponent’s own weakness

Exaclty! I have taken advice from the Catholic Answers apologists -

that is, that WE Catholics have the upper hand in the form of 2K yrs of history (more, if you count going back to Moses), The Greatest philosopher in history (St Thomas Aquainas) and other great thinkers, many of whom were martyrs - which should give us great confidence!

Once you get enough study to be able to reply without faltering, and know how to respond, YOU will be able to turn the tables on these ppl. As John Martignoni says, “Learn to be AWfensive without being OFFensive”, that is, don’t be rude, but be confident and assertive. Also, do not be afraid to say, “I don’t know the answer to that, but I’ll get back to you.” And then, do it!

I have gotten to the point where I look forward to Jehovah’s Witnesses coming to my door, and if I happen to have the time, will make sure I put THEM on the spot with questions which will, hopefully, make them question their belief system. Not hard to do, actually, and somewhat fun.

It is up to the Holy Spirit after that to convict the one to whom you have witnessed. Get their 1st name, and pray for them.

Happy Easter (- it’s almost Pentecost!)
Mimi