Why doesn't God heal homosexuals?

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Only by the church’s stance from many years ago. As such the men who hold this to be so are causing great harm by denying love to those that need it. All for the sake of a misbegotten sense of what homosexuality is. It doesn’t make any sense.
 
stupidisasstupiddoes said:
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Rau:
The Church has no position on the cause of same sex attractions and science scarcely understands it either.
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Poppycock. We know it’s part genetic (small), part environmental (large). We know that in most cases the environmental triggers kick in before the child reaches puberty. We know conversion therapy doesn’t work. What else would you like to know?
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So, is all sexuality like this? Do straight people also have a small genetic predisposition to be heterosexual with large environmental triggers that push them in that direction before they reach puberty? Would most people be predominantly homosexual if their parents raised them that way and our society provided the proper social environment for this? And now that homosexual behavior is becoming more acceptable in our society and social pressures against it are less, should we expect a sharp rise in the number of people who are active homosexuals in the years ahead?
 
stupidisasstupiddoes said:
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Thorolfr:
So, is all sexuality like this?
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No. Homosexuality is rare. Hetrosexuality is not. Hence the reasons for them are different.
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Maybe the reason that homosexuality is comparatively rare is because of all the social pressures against it. If those social pressures against it weren’t there, it might not be so rare. That might be even more true if there were social pressures encouraging homosexual behavior.

But I would think that if the thing that makes someone a homosexual is mostly environmental and only a little genetic, whatever it is that makes someone heterosexual is also mostly environmental and only a little genetic. How exactly do you think they’re different exactly?
 
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Thorolfr said:
Maybe the reason that homosexuality is comparatively rare is because of all the social pressures against it. If those social pressures against it weren’t there, it might not be so rare.
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There’s no evidence for this statement. It’s rare for the same reasons asexual behaviour is rare.
 
stupidisasstupiddoes said:
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Thorolfr:
Maybe the reason that homosexuality is comparatively rare is because of all the social pressures against it. If those social pressures against it weren’t there, it might not be so rare.
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There’s no evidence for this statement. It’s rare for the same reasons asexual behaviour is rare.
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So, what is the reason for asexual behavior and what does homosexual behavior have to do with it? I’ve never heard of any link between the two.
 
Thorolfr said:
Maybe the reason that homosexuality is comparatively rare is because of all the social pressures against it. If those social pressures against it weren’t there, it might not be so rare.

There’s no evidence for this statement. It’s rare for the same reasons asexual behaviour is rare.

So, what is the reason for asexual behavior and what does homosexual behavior have to do with it? I’ve never heard of any link between the tw
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We are into theory supported by evidence (as opposed to pure fact) now but it’s possible they are both forms of what an evolutionary psychologist would call “adaptive preferences”. For example, consider this, if you have a couple with 5 boys and 1 is gay. There is a statistically significant probability that the gay one is one of the youngest. Or put another way, it’s statistically significantly less likely to be the oldest boy that is gay. This is the ‘older brother effect’ which you can Google at your leisure. Same gene pool, same family (environmental factors), different sexuality.
 
Thorolfr said:
But I would think that if the thing that makes someone a homosexual is mostly environmental and only a little genetic, whatever it is that makes someone heterosexual is also mostly environmental and only a little genetic.
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I doubt there is such a symmetry. Reason and biology suggests the complementary sexual relationship is the one we are made for and alternative variants “exceptions”.
 
Rau said:
I doubt there is such a symmetry. Reason and biology suggests the complementary sexual relationship is the one we are made for and alternative variants “exceptions”.
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I would echo this. I think that homosexual attractions would be more likely experienced by people who are in cultures which encourage them. But heterosexual attractions are not similarly fluid. Look, again, at the ancient Greeks and Romans. Even when attraction to females was considered somewhat gauche among aristocrats, men married women as a matter of course, and Aristophanes was writing comedies about how sexy women were.

And yes, a simple look at evolutionary biology would suggest the same thing.
 
I’m back! And now reading the comments I could have stopped this dumb debate by saying that sexual acts have to be ordered towards procreation! I lost sleep over this :cry:
 
I wonder if the logical conclusion to draw here is that God doesn’t see anything that needs to be healed. Given emerging thoughts by key theologians and other Christian faiths on a number of the scriptural references previously meant to condemn homosexuality not actually being the case… we might be called to pause and think for a second.

I am more concerned with divorce, pornography, etc as threats to the family than same-sex marriage.

I think there is so much for us to learn about scripture, and I for one am going to continue praying to God for guidance here. Until then, as Christ stands at the alter with open arms - so shall I.
 
bjen993 said:
I wonder if the logical conclusion to draw here is that God doesn’t see anything that needs to be healed.
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I don’t think you can really make that statement, although it depends on the semantics. Clearly the Church forbids the endorsement of homosexual lifestyles and by that i mean the acts, not people existing as homosexuals. All the evidence we have at the moment suggests it can’t be ‘healed’ but it’s not conclusive. Just because it can’t be ‘healed’, doesn’t mean it has to be acted upon. None of those statements are particularly controversial so the real question is, what’s the practical implication of them? I think what matters is what happens when a homosexual, who sincerely believes in Christ, goes to confession and admits they did some acts. I think that if we recognise how difficult it is to live a chaste lifestyle there there’s a level of compassion they will receive, that is not endorsement, but will enable them to remain focused on the Christ they believe in, as opposed to being defined by their sin.

That’s basically my personal experience over many years, with many priests if you switch out homosexuality and insert some other legally permissible sins.
 
I think I am speaking about this more as a believer and follower of Christ. There is that side of me, and then the member of the church side of me. I know what the church and conference of bishops teach. Just not sure it checks out for me when I read, live out, and experience the world that God puts in front of us.

There are many LGBTQ people that practice a sort of modified chaste life outside of a committed relationship / same-sex legal marriage. I think this is what you meant, and if so I agree, that this represents some of the healing we can expect when we keep folks in the church.

(PS Awesome talking to you, @stupidisasstupiddoes - in multiple threads! 🙂 )
 
I agree. As we get to know more about such things as homosexuality and pedophilia, the better we can know how to respond. I think that the best way right now is to treat all people with compassion. I guess that brings me down on one side of political correctness on some issues and on others, the other side. But one must bear in mind that compassion does not mean ignore criminal actions. The most compassionate thing we can do for convicted criminals is incarceration.
 
stupidisasstupiddoes said:
We are into theory supported by evidence (as opposed to pure fact) now but it’s possible they are both forms of what an evolutionary psychologist would call “adaptive preferences”. For example, consider this, if you have a couple with 5 boys and 1 is gay. There is a statistically significant probability that the gay one is one of the youngest. Or put another way, it’s statistically significantly less likely to be the oldest boy that is gay. This is the ‘older brother effect’ which you can Google at your leisure. Same gene pool, same family (environmental factors), different sexuality.
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If there is an evolutionary mechanism that favors younger brothers being gay, then that would seem to be something natural and normal and not disordered. Moreover, there is evidence that the “older brother effect” is not something that happens when a child is growing up but is prenatal and biological:
Both direct and indirect evidence have demonstrated that the mechanism by which the fraternal birth order effect operates is prenatal in timing and biological in nature, rather than postnatal in timing or psychosocial in nature. Indirect evidence was found first when it was discovered that the fraternal birth order effect interacts with birth weight. Then, Bogaert (2006) produced direct evidence that the fraternal birth order mechanism is prenatal. Subsequent research related to handedness has further reinforced these findings.[7] Evidence that the fraternal birth order effect reflects events during prenatal life is generally consistent with a lack of evidence that it reflects events during postnatal life.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
 
Indeed, but as i say, let’s not cherry pick one study or one theory. There’s a lot of research going on in these areas and it doesn’t all agree.
 
We all have hope because of Christ Jesus. This is fundamental to Christian belief. Hope (as well as a few other things) is what separates the Christian from the rest of the world. Every one of us on this earth lives in a struggle of some sort. Jesus tells us that in order to be His followers we need to pick up our cross daily, and follow Him. So, it’s possible that the same sex attracted, and others with disordered lusts and desires bear the cross of not sharing the marital bond with another. Many do understand that their impulses and lusts are disordered and don’t so much seek to be “cured”, but rather to come to peace with their chastity. We don’t know what St. Paul’s particular cross to bear was, but we are told d in scripture that he asked the Lord 3 times that it be healed, and was told “no”. That His grace was sufficient. So…Paul came to peace with it, and focused on other things. He became more reliant on God’s grace. God holds out this grace to all who ask. But sometimes He doesn’t take a problem away, because it is more important that you master the difficulty by dependence on God’s grace to get you through. It is a trial. Some struggle their whole lives with addiction to alcohol or drugs. The successful ones, know that the urges will never leave, and so they confront their condition daily. They will go to an AA or NA meeting, and admit to themselves that the nature of their desires is disordered. So…they pick up their cross and follow the Lord daily. Some have to battle cancer. They may have to have chemo-therapy treatments or radiation which makes them feel worse than the cancer itself.
God’s healing in these instances is to teach reliance on His grace, even when the physical realities of the sufferings don’t fully go away. You learn that if you depend on God for your redemption, and move forward that you are living as a disciple. This gives us hope of deliverance in the eternal. We are offered the grace of God in prayer and sacramental living. The Holy Eucharist. Reconciliation. Anointing of the sick. And the other sacraments to orient us to the moral life. What is not useful, is denying that our passions are sinful. self rationalization that it’s okay to go on doing what we’re doing. It is the wide path that leads to hell to convince ourselves that our disordered passions must not be sinful, or else God would fix us. It is the narrow way that leads to heaven when we accept immorality as being immoral, even when the world around us encourages our sinful nature. God WILL help us with this if we go to Him with the difficulties. I believe that this is what is meant when He says: “Come to me, all you that labor and are burdened; I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon yourselves, and learn from me; I am gentle and humble of heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” while at the same time telling us that: “If any man has a mind to come my way, let him renounce self, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. He who tries to save his life will lose it; it is the man who loses his life for my sake, that will save it.”
 
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