Why doesn't RCIA teach about Eastern Catholicism?

[Elvis_Guy]

Well said! Thanks for your post!

Interestingly enough, I just received an unexpected call from my uncle / Godfather who is a certified RCIA instructor serving in his Latin Rite parish and diocese. He confirmed much of what has been said throughout this thread.

He also characterized RCIA instruction as a “crash course Catechism”.

Let’s hope everyone receiving RCIA instruction makes it through safely!:hypno:

Lol…glad my babble helped…but hey…crash course…I like that!!! Lol…really not a bad way to put it!! It’s …general…it is not this exhaustive thing…really there is so much that can be covered and…like our RCIA director Sister K…works really hard…just to cover the basics…Sister is very nice very smart…my wife is in her class I have as I say no doubt …if she asked a question re the Eastern Catholics…she would be happy to answer them…Thank you!!

 

[5Loaves]

The Latin Rite celebrant would not have been able to perform the Ritual of Marriage without having first received the consent of the Bishop of my father’s Eparchy (Diocese) as part of the dispensation process.

Just to continue on this side topic… also critical would be that a priest, not a deacon, preside over the wedding. Even with the Eparch’s permission to follow the Ritual of the Latin Church canon law is clear that no Eastern Catholic can be validly married by a deacon. Deacons routinely licitly preside at weddings in the Latin Church and those marriages are valid. Sadly this is another area where folks responsible for marriage prep sometimes do not make the appropriate call to the chancery/tribunal when an EC or Orthodox person shows up in a couple seeking marriage. Your parents living where there were EC and Latin parishes in close proximity had priests who were certainly familiar with these issues and knew the steps that needed to be taken.

I would assume that before RCIA instruction would be given in the Latin Rite, the requirements of Canon Law for eligibility of the candidates would first be established. If it were determined that the candidate were subject to the jurisdiction of an Eastern Rite hierarch, that would certainly require some explanation and prompt needed instruction on the subject, as permission would have to be sought before the candidate could be initiated. I would hope the candidate would be advised in a fair manner, so that they may make an informed decision as to a Rite of preference. I could see how it might be somewhat impractical to cover the subject of the breadth of the Universal Catholic Church as part of RCIA preparation, assuming the candidate is eligible and canonically belonging to the Latin Rite, as other matter of catechesis would be necessarily emphasized.

In the initial period of inquiry as soon as someone presents themselves wanting to move ahead as Christians seeking reception into the Church, or as unbaptized wishing to have the sacraments of initiation (Baptism and Chrismation/Confirmation), or as baptized Catholics who “never completed their sacraments” (usually had First Communion but were never confirmed) they fill out paper work which includes where they had their sacrament of baptism, the Church of their parents and a recent copy of the baptismal certificate needs to be presented. Our DRE deals with this paper work. So far I’ve only known of one situation in our parish where someone came to us and it turned out he had been baptized either EC or Orthodox, I forget which, and he was being put into the confirmation from Catholics prep class. I said it was highly likely he had been chrismated when he were baptized and this should be investigated. I have learned here that not all ECCs do chrismate at the time of baptism. Unfortunately East and West these records are not always well kept.

Anyone baptized in an Eastern Catholic Church is a member of that Church unless they make a formal request for a change of Church. There isn’t really a “preference”. A change from an Eastern Church to the Latin Church goes through Rome. Bishops are not enough to make that change. Latin to EC can be done with only the permission of Bishops.

If they are an adult and never baptized then I believe they would have a choice to be initiated into the Latin Church even if their parents were EC or Orthodox. This seems an unlikely scenario but we do sometimes get a person who comes in who is the only person in their Latin Catholic family who just never got baptized. So I suppose it could happen in an EC or Orthodox family as well.

An Orthodox Christian entering the Catholic Church need only make a profession of faith. There is no liturgical rite for that, USCCB Ritual Text #474. And they would enter in the EC Church which most closely tied to their Orthodox tradition even if that entering happened in a Latin Church parish due to the lack of any EC Church parish of their tradition in the area. It would be recorded in that Latin parish as one entering into X Catholic Church, whichever EC Church that would be. #474 see page 275 . See also

 

[ByzCathCantor]

If they are an adult and never baptized then I believe they would have a choice to be initiated into the Latin Church even if their parents were EC or Orthodox.

5Loaves:

In my feeble attempt to offer summarized information, avoiding a long discourse on Canon Law and procedure, I suppose I opened Pandora’s box …,

I did enjoy your additional detailed thoughts and commentary. This thread started out with a question as to why RCIA does not expressly teach about “both lungs” of the Catholic Church. There is an assumption I suppose that someone undergoing RCIA in the Latin Rite would have been canonically identified as an eligible Latin Rite candidate as a precursory step. Otherwise, why go to preparation phase?

FYI - I quoted the above caption only to offer a cautionary note. While the circumstance you mentioned would surely allow the unbaptized adult to make an informed choice (having reached the age of reason), if he or she were born EC or Orthodox, the Latin Rite priest would still need to obtain the permission of the appropriate Eastern Rite bishop, as they would be considered EC by virtue of that type of paternal history. Practically speaking, I do not believe permission would be denied unless there were extraordinary circumstances, but it must be sought and obtained nonetheless.

Peace be with you, and I wish you a joyous Christmas! S’nami Boh!

 

[5Loaves]

While the circumstance you mentioned would surely allow the unbaptized adult to make an informed choice (having reached the age of reason), if he or she were born EC or Orthodox, the Latin Rite priest would still need to obtain the permission of the appropriate Eastern Rite bishop, as they would be considered EC by virtue of that type of paternal history.

Thank you. And I was long-winded but still manged to leave out what I always say-- when EC or Orthodox appears anywhere in their history call the chancery/tribunal and find out what to do.

Pandora’s box ?

There is an assumption I suppose that someone undergoing RCIA in the Latin Rite would have been canonically identified as an eligible Latin Rite candidate as a precursory step.

What an excellent thought!

Otherwise, why go to preparation phase?

And yes…
would that this identification did always happen. Same issue with marriages, as I mentioned in this side step. :sad_yes:

Peace be with you, and I wish you a joyous Christmas! S’nami Boh!

S’nami Boh!

But please, may the Nativity not come any sooner than it already is! I feel like it was yesterday we were celebrating the Feast of St. Philip! At my age these months seem to fly by!

I suspect OP is getting a better sense of why we don’t get into talking about the ECCs in RCIA.

 

[countertenor]

I was part of an RCIA team last year. I was specifically brought in by the coordinator to help present the Byzantine view of things and to discuss the traditions where they are different from the Latin Rite.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I was part of an RCIA team last year. I was specifically brought in by the coordinator to help present the Byzantine view of things and to discuss the traditions where they are different from the Latin Rite.

That was a great coordinator. Sad to say, not all coordinators are that way.

 

[countertenor]

That was a great coordinator. Sad to say, not all coordinators are that way.

I know. Some coordinators can be really freaked out. Helps that this parish actually had a bi-ritual Melkite priest serving it several years ago. Also since my young children receive communion there most weeks, it’s good to give people entering the Latin Church an idea of why some things happen.

I’ve also given talks at our local Newman Center as well, and as part of a series of Adult Education classes that one of the deacon’s was giving.

We have a few iconographers in the parish as well, and a few weeks ago we had an fairly large exhibit of icons. And in the new perpetual adoration chapel they’ve built, they’ve put in an icon corner and sever other icons on the wall. There is one in the main church, and they would like to put more in.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I know. Some coordinators can be really freaked out. Helps that this parish actually had a bi-ritual Melkite priest serving it several years ago. Also since my young children receive communion there most weeks, it’s good to give people entering the Latin Church an idea of why some things happen.

I’ve also given talks at our local Newman Center as well, and as part of a series of Adult Education classes that one of the deacon’s was giving.

We have a few iconographers in the parish as well, and a few weeks ago we had an fairly large exhibit of icons. And in the new perpetual adoration chapel they’ve built, they’ve put in an icon corner and sever other icons on the wall. There is one in the main church, and they would like to put more in.

Funny, my former RC parish which was uncharitable against me when I told them I have moved to a Ukrainian Catholic parish, has a bi-ritual Chaldean priest as a regular substitute whenever the pastor is away. But I’ll bet you $100 people there don’t know that.

 

[Cider]

Eastern Catholicism was covered in my RCIA

 

[Cavaradossi]

My dear friend in Christ,

The short answer to your question is that in the ENTIRE Bible; first to last word; NOT ONE word by Yahweh or Christ ever; even one time approved of belief in Only One God [Triune] or more than ONLY One set of Faith beliefs [those of the holder of the “key to heaven” to whom Jesus Himself entrust the single truths of His One set of Faith beliefs, ot never - ever more than Only one “church.”

I read a survey the other day that said about 95% of the worlds Catholics are of the Roman Communion. The other 5% are spread between 22 Eastern sects that too are part of our Catholic Church. THAT IS WHY RCIA teaches as it does.

The Roman Church is the ONE Church, One set of Beliefs and Practices FOUNED By Christ Himself. Why would you NOT desire to be part of it:shrug:

**Salvation my friend is NOT about our “wants” it’s about our “NEEDS”:

thumbsup: The right And full practice of faith MUST be as God desires; not as we would like. That said if you desire to join one of the Eastern sects that is NOT seperated from Rome; you may do so. One would hope you have a reason for such a decision? BUT be careful there are Eastern sects who are SEPERTATED [in Schism] from Rome and in a real sense have breached their relationship with God Himself.

BUT “Mother Church” is thee Roman Catholic Church.

Antioch and Jerusalem have not their daughter as their mother. Why do you disparage your fellow coreligionists by calling their self-governing churches ‘sects,’ and presenting their traditions as being suspicious and somehow less desirable than Latin Christianity?

 

[PJM]

=5Loaves;8698794]The 22 Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches are not sects. We are Catholic Churches, autonomous, self-governing (in Latin, sui iuris) Catholic Churches. in union with the Latin Church, AKA the Roman Catholic Church, forming together the Catholic Church. We have our own practices, our own liturgical calendars, our own set of canon laws as distinct from those of the Latin Church and celebrate the Divine Liturgy, not the Roman Rite. There is nothing in any of these that is any less Catholic than the Latin Church. Should a question about the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches arise in RCIA in a Latin parish this is the spirit of what should be conveyed.

I’m afraid your post displays a lack of familiarity with the fullness of the Catholic Church. Hopefully, having posted here you will come to learn more about the Catholic Church in her entirety. Perhaps reading Orientale Lumen an Apostolic Letter of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the Bishops, Clergy, and Faithful would be a good place to start.

SORYY! I used the wrong term:blush:

God Bless,
Pat

 

[5Loaves]

SORYY! I used the wrong term:blush:

God Bless,
Pat

It isn’t the term “sect” per se, although it is incorrect, but your thinking and your lack of knowledge about the Church in this respect that is the problem, which causes you to misrepresent the Catholic Church in your post. To teach this way in the RCIA as you said you did, or anywhere, would be to not teach what the Church teaches. I believe you deeply love the Catholic Church and your response comes from that place. I hope you will continue to become more informed about the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches and how we as an entire Catholic Church, both lungs equally, are formed into one Body. Know that I love the Latin Church deeply myself and am very much engaged with it, in ways I hope and pray serve it well.

 

[Aramis]

I thought RCIA was simply: Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults, not Roman Catholic in nature but more general?

No, it’s explicitly a Roman Rite thing.

But there are some places where it includes at least some instruction on the Eastern Churches… especially important in Alaska, where about 1 in 5 people in state is nominally Orthodox. (1 in 4 are nominally Catholic)

 

[Elijahmaria]

No, it’s explicitly a Roman Rite thing.

But there are some places where it includes at least some instruction on the Eastern Churches… especially important in Alaska, where about 1 in 5 people in state is nominally Orthodox. (1 in 4 are nominally Catholic)

It’s explicitly “a Roman rite thing” because the rites of initiation have been tied to the Roman rite lectionary. It is a cycle of lectionary catechesis.

I don’t know that there’d be any restriction upon the eastern Churches if they chose to establish something similar for their own catechetical cycles.

 

[Ghosty]

It’s explicitly “a Roman rite thing” because the rites of initiation have been tied to the Roman rite lectionary. It is a cycle of lectionary catechesis.

I don’t know that there’d be any restriction upon the eastern Churches if they chose to establish something similar for their own catechetical cycles.

There’s no restriction, but I doubt there’s much incentive either. When my wife was converting our priest had a few learning sessions with her and then told her to go through RCIA, and then met up with her again afterwards to fill in the specifically “Eastern” details. Given that she is, I believe, the only real “convert” our mission has had in 6 years it was simply more efficient to put her through a process that is already in place at a Roman parish.

We were fortunate, though, in that the RCIA program she went through was very good and drawn almost entirely from the Catechism and Church Fathers. I was her “sponsor” and was frequently tapped by the instructor to give the “Melkite understanding” to the class. When the priesthood came up and one of the other students spoke negatively of the celibate priesthood, our instructor pointed at us and said “their priests can be married” and we had a discussion about the discipline and how it arose in the Church. Far from making them think the Latins were wrong, it seemed to give that student a better appreciation for the discipline.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Vico]

It’s explicitly “a Roman rite thing” because the rites of initiation have been tied to the Roman rite lectionary. It is a cycle of lectionary catechesis.

I don’t know that there’d be any restriction upon the eastern Churches if they chose to establish something similar for their own catechetical cycles.

I know how it is done is our Byzantine Catholic parish, since we have had several people become Catholic, even two that I can think of that were not Christian before. There were about two months of classes on a weekday evening and then they could elect to become Catholic or not. If yes, then after informing the priest, there was a initiation during the Divine Liturgy, after the Gospel, with Holy Baptism and Holy Chrismation. The the first Holy Communion occurred at the usual time in the Divine Liturgy along with everyone else. Similarly for those receiving only Chrismation.

 

[fhansen]

What I do not understand here is if there are differences between the Catholic rites in how truths are taught, why is this not taught to people in RCIA? Even better would be to have a simple test people could take and then they could find which one fits them the best. I understand if you are born into something, you are born into it. However for those of us who are not, who want to convert, it is a mess that seems to make no sense. It is almost like the Latin rite is hiding this information from us. Something about this whole thing seems to smell very badly to me…

Pax

What would be the point? By the time someone enters RCIA they should’ve explored alternatives to some degree-and as Roman Catholics we certainly would agree they’ve made a wise choice; we have nothing to be ashamed of in our rite. And while I think it’s interesting to teach about as much as we can about the entire faith, it often seems we barely have time to cover the basics in RCIA as it is.

 

[Laudate_Dominum]

Please understand that there are a great many Catholics (perhaps the overwhelming majority, actually) that have no idea that the Eastern Catholic Churches even exist. I sure didn’t until about three years ago, and I’m a cradle Catholic that has been very involved with my church over the years! A lot of it has to do with the fact that many of them are very small, with less than 1 million members worldwide. Also, you’d be hard pressed to find an Eastern Catholic Church outside of the major US cities. In all honesty, if I went to church right now and asked 100 cradle Catholics if they knew what Eastern Catholic Churches were, sadly, I bet at most 15 could give you an answer, if that. I promise this isn’t some big conspiracy, it’s just that the Eastern Catholic Church is a relatively obscure topic to most Latin Catholics. (Now, a discussion on that sad state of affairs could certainly be justified, but it’s reality.)

They don’t have to know. Latin Catholics have their own culture, their own traditions, their own liturgies, their own devotions, their own philosophical and theological schools, etc. Sure it’d be jolly good if more people were aware of the Eastern Churches’s existence but those that do not are in no way sub-standard or poor Catholics.

 

[Elijahmaria]

What would be the point? By the time someone enters RCIA they should’ve explored alternatives to some degree-and as Roman Catholics we certainly would agree they’ve made a wise choice; we have nothing to be ashamed of in our rite. And while I think it’s interesting to teach about as much as we can about the entire faith, it often seems we barely have time to cover the basics in RCIA as it is.

There’s always time to do the right things. I can speak from experience, not hypothetically.

One thing you have to be ashamed of is the attitude that you display here. Forgive my being so blunt with my estimations of your message.

 

[fhansen]

There’s always time to do the right things. I can speak from experience, not hypothetically.

One thing you have to be ashamed of is the attitude that you display here. Forgive my being so blunt with my estimations of your message.

Yes, your forgiven-it just didn’t make any sense.