Why doesnt someone go after John Hagee?

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I caught him referring to the Church as the Whore of Babylon and turned him into the Catholic Civil Rights League and to the Catholic League.
I think that one should have the right to bash religions, that’s one of the primary foundations of our First Amendment Right to free speech.

And on this line, IMO the Catholic Church is way too soft these days defending itself against Protestantism. It should be made more manifest that it’s these Protestant preachers who are leading their flocks against God and down the wrong path. (I put it nice.)
 
To say that there are many paths to the Father, and they ALL lead to Him through His Son is to basically say the “Catholic Church” is not “Necessary” - that “It is not necessary to be Catholic in order to be saved”, that “You do not have to convert to Catholicism in order to be saved.”

You do not know how many people I know who were on the edge of conversion to the Catholic Faith and stopped short of conversion because they heard EXACTLY what you said here- that there are many other paths to God (other than the Catholic Religion) [parenthesis added]. A possible convert told me, “Well I have a huge problem with confession to a priest- therefore I am going to remain Baptist, no problem since the Catholic Church teaches I will be saved anyway.” This is during his RCIA, and got to the Sacraments part of his education.

Ken
I agree with Ken’s post. My priest gave a homily a while back in which he stated that this sort of relativism is one of the greatest heresies of our day.
 
I think that one should have the right to bash religions, that’s one of the primary foundations of our First Amendment Right to free speech.
QUOTE]

We are certainly free to disagree with other religions, and strongly profess our own beliefs, but the First Amendment doesn’t protect the proverbial “crying ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre,” and doesn’t protect libel, slander, or hate speech. I think much of what comes from the Hagee’s, SDA’s, and similar rises (sinks?) to the level of libel and hate speech, and should be more aggressively countered.
 
Last night I watched John Hagee with Kenneth Copeland explain the book of Revelation and end times. Of course he attacked the “Church Of Rome” with out ever saying the word Catholic even once.
Boxer, if he didn’t say catholic couldn’t it be the HS speaking to you for you to jump to that analysis?
I caught him referring to the Church as the Whore of Babylon and turned him into the Catholic Civil Rights League and to the Catholic League.
No one knows who the whore is…Can you give a citation to where he said this?
It has been my experience that many protestants do “know” the Bible backwards and forwards, chapter and verse. problem is i have yet to come across one who understands it.
This is ridiculous! How would you know if one of us understands it have you been given the power of interpretive discernment? Even your church errored in interpretting scripture, one need not look any further than Galileo.
I seriously laughed when he stated that Constantine not only started Catholicism, but that he also crowned himself emperor AND Pope :rolleyes: Quick can someone tell me how long Constantine’s Pontificate lasted? 😃

God bless
Pope? c’mon show a citation here also…sheesh! The rest is debateable!!!
I don’t even listen to him anymore, and I pay no attention to him either. His evangelization is a real turn off. He even called Pius XII an anti-Semite.:mad:
Once again I’d like to see where he said this…Citation please.
So perhaps–just my opinion–the Copeland watchers don’t have as much influence in society. They tend to be more isolationist and therefore, less of a threat to Catholics.!
If your theology is sound, there should be no threat!
I must add that I believe many evangelicals THINK about going out into the world, but most of them don’t. They are too afraid of contamination, so instead, they stay safe in their churches and offer “seeker” services and other events that they hope will draw non-Christians to them.
Apparently you don’t know as many as you think.
I know, he even called St. John Chrysostom anti-Semite too. He even called all the Church fathers anti-Semitic! Uggh! Pray for him.
CITATIONS!!!Please.
To say that there are many paths to the Father, and they ALL lead to Him through His Son is to basically say the “Catholic Church” is not “Necessary” - that “It is not necessary to be Catholic in order to be saved”, that “You do not have to convert to Catholicism in order to be saved.”
I find this very troublesome, have you read scripture? at all?
You believe man over Christ himself?:eek:
 
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myfavoritmartin:
No one knows who the whore is…Can you give a citation to where he said this?
It was on tv. Every once in a while he slips and, if I catch him, I report him to the League.

Why do you ask? Do agree or disagree that the Church is the Whore of Babylon?
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myfavoritmartin:
Even your church errored in interpretting scripture, one need not look any further than Galileo.
The trouble is that people don’t look at Galileo. They just name drop ‘Galileo’ over their lattes, nod, wink, and figure that’s enough to condemn the Church. And those people seem not to even know the science or bogus science that Galileo deployed to hoodwink the fashionistas of his time.
  1. Galileo’s problem was that his theories about the Earth not being the centre of the universe were not his theories at all. They were the theories of Copernicus.
  2. Galileo’s proof using wave theory failed to prove his hypothesis. It was n’t until 200 later that the parallax proof – a successful one – came forth.
  3. But his big problem with the Church was not that he presented his theory as science but that he presented his theory as theology.
  4. As for the errors of some members of the Church in interpreting scripture, the Reformation put forth a new fashion that involved literal interpretation of scripture. That trend was soon squashed by the Church Herself.
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myfavoritmartin:
I find this very troublesome, have you read scripture? at all?
Are you suggesting that the Church compiled the books of the Bible without reading Scripture? What – they just drew straws?
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myfavoritmartin:
You believe man over Christ himself?
No. That’s why we are not Protestants.
 
SPH1;2259110:
I** think that one should have the right to bash religions, that’s one of the primary foundations of our First Amendment Right to free speech**
.
QUOTE]

We are certainly free to disagree with other religions, and strongly profess our own beliefs, but the First Amendment doesn’t protect the proverbial “crying ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre,” and doesn’t protect libel, slander, or hate speech. I think much of what comes from the Hagee’s, SDA’s, and similar rises (sinks?) to the level of libel and hate speech, and should be more aggressively countered.

You are on the right tract…

Freedom is NOT the ability or position to do as one pleases.

Freedom is the ability to do what is right.

Freedom is NOT the ability to do what is wrong.

Hence your examples are correct. To carry it one step farther… the heresies supported by our separated brethren - if known to be wrong - should not be protected as “free speech”.

They are nothing short of injurious to one’s very soul.

.
 
SPH1;2259110:
I think that one should have the right to bash religions, that’s one of the primary foundations of our First Amendment Right to free speech.
QUOTE]

We are certainly free to disagree with other religions, and strongly profess our own beliefs, but the First Amendment doesn’t
protect the proverbial “crying ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre,” and doesn’t protect libel, slander, or hate speech. I think much of what comes from the Hagee’s, SDA’s, and similar rises (sinks?) to the level of libel and hate speech, and should be more aggressively countered.

As a CA attorney, I really don’t need a law lecture.

I’m not a fan of so-called “hate speech” laws, a great erosion of the First Amendment. We’ve already seen it being put to use in Canada and some European countries to stiffle the Church speaking out against things such as homosexuality. What’s next? What else will become “hate speech?” Saying that other religions are wrong?

Calling the Pope the antichrist and the Holy Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon is indeed ugly. As Cardinal Newman suggests, Protestants turned to this tactic because they could not defeat the Church on reasoned debate alone. IMO, no other religion uses propaganda (an appeal to the sub-rational level) as does Protestantism. But IMO we should counter with reasoned and powerful argument, not the law.

Role of False Witness - From Newman Reader
“I repeat, not everything which is said to our disadvantage is without foundation in fact; but it is not {129} the true that tells against us in the controversy, but the false. The Tradition requires bold painting; its prominent outline, its glaring colouring, needs to be a falsehood. So was it at the time of the Reformation; the multitude would never have been converted by exact reasoning and by facts which could be proved; so its upholders were clever enough to call the Pope Antichrist, and they let the startling accusation sink into men’s minds. Nothing else would have succeeded; and they pursue the same tactics now. No inferior charge, I say, would have gained for them the battle; else, why should they have had recourse to it? Few persons tell atrocious falsehoods for the sake of telling them. If truth had been sufficient to put down Catholicism, the Reformers would not have had recourse to fiction. Errors indeed creep in by chance, whatever be the point of inquiry or dispute; but I am not accusing Protestants merely of incidental or of attendant error, but I mean that falsehood is the very staple of the views which they have been taught to entertain of us.**”

John Henry Cardinal Newman

 
BTW, if he’s hanging out with Kenneth Copeland now, there are more theological problems here than just his “End Times” theology! To call Copeland’s “doctrine” of the Atonement heterodox would be most generous!
HAGEE and COPELAND are so off the wall that there is never enough space to illustrate their erors. Just another example of how Televangelism can be a real money-maker in America. Make the Bible into a crystal ball and you can get folks to donate to your empire.
 
It was on tv. Every once in a while he slips and, if I catch him, I report him to the League.
And they respond by what??? Sending the Jesuit squad after him?
Why do you ask? Do agree or disagree that the Church is the Whore of Babylon?
Answering would get me an infraction, I plead the fifth.
The trouble is that people don’t look at Galileo. They just name drop ‘Galileo’ over their lattes, nod, wink, and figure that’s enough to condemn the Church. And those people seem not to even know the science or bogus science that Galileo deployed to hoodwink the fashionistas of his time.
  1. Galileo’s problem was that his theories about the Earth not being the centre of the universe were not his theories at all. They were the theories of Copernicus.
Ani,
It’s not about Galileo or Copernicus, it’s that The Catholic Church wrongly interpretted scripture to state that the Sun revolved around the earth. See the condemnation “Speculatores domus Israel”
Are you suggesting that the Church compiled the books of the Bible without reading Scripture? What – they just drew straws?
No. That’s why we are not Protestants.
I am suggesting that on God’s team of men it takes players at many positions to play the game(ie; Hagee, copeland, vatican). The Catholic church thinks that they can play and be the only winners with just the one position covered…It is ridiculous.
 
I am suggesting that on God’s team of men it takes players at many positions to play the game(ie; Hagee, copeland, vatican). The Catholic church thinks that they can play and be the only winners with just the one position covered…It is ridiculous.
Do you seriously have no problem with the substance of his message? Here’s some of his litany:

-The Jews are God’s people (repeat 100 times)

-God wants us to give to help Jews (repeat as above)
What’s wrong with this you ask? How about God wants us to help the needy period? He never said we should play favorites in our giving

-(Implied) If you don’t agree with all I say about Jews you’re an anti-Semite

-xxx, xxx,xxx were anti-Semites

-the great battle is coming and you better be on Israel’s side…

…Maybe he does preach other stuff and I just happened to listen on those days, but man! Is the call to circumcision far off down the road?:eek:
 
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myfavoritmartin:
Ani,
It’s not about Galileo or Copernicus, it’s that The Catholic Church wrongly interpretted scripture to state that the Sun revolved around the earth. See the condemnation “Speculatores domus Israel”
Here we go, find some “error” and this supposedly disproves the Catholic Church. While Protestantism, on the other hand, is a virtual mountain of error after error.

How come you guys never consider that perhaps it’s Scripture itself that was in error in the Galileo affair? And who were all of the Protestants at the time properly interpreting Scripture on this?

And be more specific when you state that, “The Catholic Church wrongly interpreted scripture…”
 
Here we go, find some “error” and this supposedly disproves the Catholic Church. While Protestantism, on the other hand, is a virtual mountain of error after error.

How come you guys never consider that perhaps it’s Scripture itself that was in error in the Galileo affair? And who were all of the Protestants at the time properly interpreting Scripture on this?

And be more specific when you state that, “The Catholic Church wrongly interpreted scripture…”
And there are many other threads on this item of interest/noninterest.

Fact is no scientist has proven either theory, nor disproven either theory… so both helio and geo are both still that - theories. One is simply accepted, and the other is simply food for argument… but both are only theories.

So perhaps we just find sollice in what the scripture “implies”😉
 
And there are many other threads on this item of interest/noninterest.

Fact is no scientist has proven either theory, nor disproven either theory… so both helio and geo are both still that - theories. One is simply accepted, and the other is simply food for argument… but both are only theories.

So perhaps we just find sollice in what the scripture “implies”😉
Hi,

Yes, I’ve read some time ago that there may be more to this than simply that Galileo was correct, and that Relativism is what most scientists go with now. But if the Heliocentric/Galileo view is ultimately rejected by science, will the Church be called by her enemies “wrong” again?
 
ThuribleGuy45;2259704:
As a CA attorney, I really don’t need a law lecture.

I’m not a fan of so-called “hate speech” laws, a great erosion of the First Amendment. We’ve already seen it being put to use in Canada and some European countries to stiffle the Church speaking out against things such as homosexuality. What’s next? What else will become “hate speech?” Saying that other religions are wrong?

Calling the Pope the antichrist and the Holy Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon is indeed ugly. As Cardinal Newman suggests, Protestants turned to this tactic because they could not defeat the Church on reasoned debate alone. IMO, no other religion uses propaganda (an appeal to the sub-rational level) as does Protestantism. But IMO we should counter with reasoned and powerful argument, not the law.
I didn’t mean to offend - I didn’t realize non-attorneys weren’t entitled to an opinion on the matter of what I thought was “equal justice under law,” to borrow a phrase I’ve seen somewhere.

Nasty comments about the pope are one thing. Being accused - as various SDA and other websites do - of being part of an institution that was responsible for 9/11, the Lincoln assassination, the JFK assassination, international monetary conspiracies, and other nefarious plots still, in my humble layman’s opinion, gets into libel / slander territory, not the expression of religious belief, however far-out that belief might be.
 
When I was younger, one of my co-militarists used to refer to me and my ilk as “papists”.

I just used to laugh at him, as heartily as possible.
 
SPH1;2260260:
Nasty comments about the pope are one thing. Being accused - as various SDA and other websites do - of being part of an institution that was responsible for 9/11, the Lincoln assassination, the JFK assassination, international monetary conspiracies, and other nefarious plots still, in my humble layman’s opinion, gets into libel / slander territory
, not the expression of religious belief, however far-out that belief might be.

I’ll give you that you may have a point here, outright libel/slander wouldn’t (normally) be protected speech.

I was focusing on nasty comments about the Pope (antichrist) Church (whore of Babylon.)
I didn’t mean to offend - I didn’t realize non-attorneys weren’t entitled to an opinion on the matter of what I thought was “equal justice under law,” to borrow a phrase I’ve seen somewhere.
Here you’re just being a jerk?
 
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