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Joshua2006
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Apryl
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Just what sin do you think that the Mother of God should have been, or even was, guilty of?
I’d like to see your references for such a case.
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Apryl
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This is very true: there is no scriptural proof for the Immaculate Conception. It is a Dogma: a proclamation was made by the Pope (in the capacity in which he is considered ‘infallible’) and we, as Catholics, must accept it
The Pope Said So
He spoke as the Leader of the Church.
Now that’s out of the way, I have a question that I’ve often asked of Protestants (and Catholics that need direction): What difference does it make that it’s not scripturally referenced? I say that because it bothers you that there is no scriptural reference for something, but there is no scriptural reference for televisions or cars or computers… but I don’t see us not accepting that, today.
Is there some reason why it has to be written in the Bible? In any bible?? in order for it to be true, or truthful?
I wish I was better able to cut and paste other threads that have already addressed this… but something tells me that it won’t matter to those that don’t want to hear it: Mary was sinless. Unless you know something we don’t know, can we just move along to the next topic? OR better yet: do a search on these boards for earlier responses to that, and similar questions. (We know it’s been asked before)
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jofa
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Our non-Catholic friend is still avoiding the Canon point…waiting, waiting,…yawn…snoore…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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clmowry
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This is nothing more than an assertion on your part.
Show me where scripture says explicitly that Mary sinned.
Until you do so, you have “proven” nothing.
Chuck
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Sean_Boyle
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bookgirl32
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emeraldisle
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I could have agreed with what you wrote if the Bible was a work of man. However the Bible is Gods masterpiece and He has so wisely chosen to give us His truth in written form. It seems some people get all worked up about how God gave us His infallible written Word but for me it doesn’t matter how God did it but the fact is that He has given us His infallible written Word.You’re totally missing the point of what I’m saying. I’m asking you to think a bit about exactly how the Bible was both compiled and gathered together AS scripture, who determined what was scripture and what wasn’t, and importantly, WHEN. Do a bit of study into how the Bible came about.
‘It’s obvious that God wants us to have His word in writing’??? Ummm … no it isn’t. At least not from the Bible itself. That’s your assumption, and a wrong one.
There’s nothing at all in the Bible that commands the putting together of those particular books into one definitive volume and excluding all others. Nothing in the Bible where God or anyone else even commands a single word of it to be written, apart from some of Moses and some of the OT prophets.
If it was so self-evident that God wanted to give us purely a written word how is it that it wasn’t until decades after Christ that any of it was written? How is it that it took nearly 400 years to come up with the final definitive list of which books are inspired? How is it that God left all those Christians in the darkness for all those decades and centuries so totally bereft of His infallible word?
More importantly, how is it that today we still argue about some books if all are so self-evidently inspired? :ehh:
See, if it was so bleeding obvious as you wrongly presume, Jesus would either have directly commanded the writing of his words down, or better still would’ve just written them Himself. many prophets did before Him. Then we would’ve had his definitive word, and no need for the further writings or interpretations of the Apostles afterwards.
It occurs to me that the only evidence we have of the infallibility of the Bible is in fact … people’s oral teachings that it is soSo why are those particular oral teachings correct and no others?
We thankfully have the complete infallible written Word of God and in His written Word we don’t have a single reference to Mary being sinless. That settles the issue for me, I believe what God says in His infallible written Word.
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sandusky
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All of the justified exist in the realm of grace (Rom 5:1-2; Eph 1:3-6, etc.).
The angel’s greeting is not concerned with the state of Mary’s being, but with her calling, IMO.
Mary, herself, says that all generations will call her “blessed” (Lk 1:48), she does say that all generations will call her “sinless.” Thankfully, she understood.
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sandusky
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It’s not true of Greek, as I’ve demonstrated in Mt 26:49, 27:29; Mk 15:18; Jn 19:3, and Lk 1:28—those are all greetings, and they are all in the imperative. Greek uses the imperative, and other tenses, such as the infinitive, in formal greetings (cf Acts 15:23; Jas 1:1; the same word, chīrō is used in the infinitive, and translated, “Greetings”).
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emeraldisle
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I’ve already addressed this issue.
Does the Bible tell us that Daniel sinned?
No it doesn’t, so are we going to start a new teaching that Daniel was sinless?
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sandusky
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But this topic is scripturally referenced in Rom 3:23; 3:9; Gal 3:22; that’s the OP’s point, IMO.
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sandusky
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I’ll refer you to the statement made by your fellow Catholic:
That’s what you’re doing.
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emeraldisle
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Where does it say in the Bible about such a person as a Pope being infallible?
Are you equating the issue of Mary’s supposed sinlessness to computers, cars & tv’s?
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bookgirl32
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Sigh . . . Again EI, where does it say in the Bible that the Bible HAS to say it?
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jofa
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Again, “good enough for me”, and “it doesn’t matter how God gave us His infallible word” actually means: “I can’t give an explanation that is intelligent or convincing”. Don’t you see? You’re hiding your head in the sand. If the Church has the authority to decide which of the books of the Bible are infallible (which you obviously agree with since you, too, call the collection infallible), then why deny the same authority to teach the such things as the sinlessness of Mary when Catholics can show it does not contradict scripture? To Protestants, the Church is only infallible in doctrines they agree with. Hmmmm!
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Apryl
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Hol’ up, hol’ up, hol’ up
Who told you that the WRITTEN WORD is infallible?
And when you say ‘Written Word’, could you point me to a translation, and publish date?
(Who publishes ‘infallible words’, anyway???)
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GraceDK
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Amen. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth of God’s Word. As Catholics we believe He is the Author of Sacred Scripture and inspired it… therefore He also inspired the Biblical words that you are surely familiar with that go like this:
“The Church is the Foundation and Pillar of Truth”.
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clmowry
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This in no way addresses the issue.
It did not the first time you said it and it does not now.
How does silence prove a point?
It is simply silence.
The bible NOT telling us that someone has sinned is not the same as the bible telling us that someone HAS sinned.
Following the same logic:
The bible does not tell me that you are NOT a blue-skinned iguana; does that mean that I can conclude that you ARE a blue-skinned iguana?
Chuck
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