Why doesn't the Catholic Church take a stance against online role-playing games?

[Sublime_Prince]

I am curious why the church has not taken a strong stance against some online video games while other denominations have?

I really don’t think many people outside the video game community know a great deal about what goes on in these games if they did I am 100% positive the church would be very against these types of games.

I have a weakness for these games, but I really feel that many I have played online are not healthy and are anti-christian.

Many games exist like Everquest, Diablo, God Wars, World of Warcraft, but i will use the game called Runescape for example.

In Runescape prayer is a very important part of the game. Players have to chant prayers in order to protect them from harm. These are not prayers to God, but to false Gods; the Gods that exist in runescape.

Prayer in runescape is a skill that can be raised, the higher your prayer level the more you will last in battle. I vividly remember training my prayer level for four hours straight by praying to false Gods without ceasing. This process included collecting bones, grinding them up,mixing them with slime, pooring this mixture over a statue of a false God then getting on my knees and praying to that statue continuously to gain prayer experience. Many players like myself would pray to these False Gods continuously for 4+ hours a day to raise there prayer experience as high as they could.

To gain access to high level magical spells a player has to pray to the God of his choice to gain access to that Gods “God spell”. These are the most powerful spells in the game. When a player casts a God spell he yells out “For the Glory of Sardomin!” or “For the glory of Guthix” or “For the Glory of Zamorak!”

In runescape stealing is greatly encouraged in fact it is a skill in the game the benefits the player and any player who chooses not to advance this skill is at a great disadvantage. Players steal from market stalls, guards, farmers, and many computer generated characters.

Players were for some time until recently encouraged to PK in the game. Player Killing is the process of killing another player and often stealing the other players possessions for profit. This is not often voluntary and many times not consensual. Many players have to venture into PK zones in order to complete quests in the game and have no choice.

Games like this teach the player to lie, to steal, to cheat and most of all greed is a central part of the game.

I was an odd ball playing a game most kids play, but it really concerned me playing the game how young the players I was playing with. I was worried their parents had no idea the corrupt morals games like this were teaching their children. These parents have no idea all the sins their children are committing online. You see online you can sin all you want in these games and no punishment will come to you. You can worship false Gods, steal from other players, cheat , lie , and defraud and in most cases no punishment will ever be handed down to you.

The main reason I think the church doesn’t take a stance on these games is the clergy in the catholic church at high ranking positions are all very old men who probably have never played an online video game in their life much less an online role-playing game. They have no idea about these games or much about what goes on in these games. They can only go by what they have heard. I am 100% positive if these clergy played the games online I have and have seen the false worship of Gods and the sins committed in these games they would not hesitate to take a strong stance against them.

 

[b_justb]

Sublime Prince:

In Runescape prayer is a very important part of the game. Players have to chant prayers in order to protect them from harm. These are not prayers to God, but to false Gods; the Gods that exist in runescape.

The Catholic Church has already taken a very firm stance in upholding the first of the 10 Commandments.

The Church’s guidelines are for the good of the faithful. If the guidelines are already in place there is no reason to delve into the minutia of each possible application of those guidelines.

If anyone is involved with a thing that is detrimental to his Christian path, then stop doing that thing. We don’t need the Church to say, “Stop doing THING!” Just do it on your own because you already know what is the right thing to do.

 

[Sublime_Prince]

yeah I know the church took a strong stance against anything against the 10 commandments. But I really think they should take steps further by publicly denouncing some of these games like other denominations. I know many christians who play these games and think they are ok. Parents let their young kids play these games oblivious to what is going on. Kids aren’t mature enough to make right decisions they need parents to guide them. If the parents have no clue what is going on how are they going to be affectively stop kids from doing harm to themselves.

The church has taken a strong stance against other activities that encourage worshiping false Gods like fortune telling, talking to the dead, astrology, and tarot cards. this should be an activity I feel they should discourage as well.

 

[notsmart]

Wow, the catholic church cant possibly come up with every senario for sin. We have brains and we can probably figure out what a sin is. I am not a believer and that makes sense to me.
I mean, do you want them to make a statement about the “right way” to brush your teeth, or how often to?
I cant imagine the need for additional cruelty on top of this nullity thing.

 

[RobHom]

The Catholic Church has already taken a very firm stance in upholding the first of the 10 Commandments.

The Church’s guidelines are for the good of the faithful. If the guidelines are already in place there is no reason to delve into the minutia of each possible application of those guidelines.

If anyone is involved with a thing that is detrimental to his Christian path, then stop doing that thing. We don’t need the Church to say, “Stop doing THING!” Just do it on your own because you already know what is the right thing to do.

Ditto.

You and I have “free will”. God gave it to us. Use it, and use it rightly.

Playing a game is one thing, being absorbed by it and becoming a part of it or believing it…is another.

 

[BlestOne]

Ditto.

You and I have “free will”. God gave it to us. Use it, and use it rightly.

Playing a game is one thing, being absorbed by it and becoming a part of it or believing it…is another.

Exactly!!!

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Playing a game is one thing, being absorbed by it and becoming a part of it or believing it…is another.

Bingo!

 

[Morningkill]

The reasons given above are pretty clear - the Church opposes a vast number of sins. If an activity (from collecting skulls to collecting stamps) involves a sin, it is condemned.

So, playing Runescape in that manner would certainly be condemned. So would, for example, playing Scrabble if Scrabble caused people to be nasty and vicious to each other.

I think that the Church does not need to condemn specific past-times - they would be there forever doing it, and it wouldn’t ever be a complete list. The Church instead condemns the sins and therefore catches all the bad activities.

What would we do if the Church released a list of online RPGs which cannot be played? Is one not on that list automatically “ok”? Conversely, if the Church condemns ALL online RPGs, is that fair - if there are some which don’t involve sinful activities?

Telling people in detail what specific activities are sins rather than simply making it clear what sort of things are sins so that people can with a correctly informed conscience determine it for themselves could, in my view, lead to a sort of “spirtual dependency”.

“Should I have an extra drink and watch the naked girl dance? let me check . . . .”

Additionally, is it necessarially the case that an action in a game which involves not ACTUALLY worshiping a false god (as there is no god, the person doing the action does not believe in the god, and the person is not engaging in worship) consitute idolatry? Certainly, there are actions in these games which encourage un-Christian actions; but I might contend idolatry.

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

I hardly think anyone who is playing a game where they “pray” to a “god” is committing idolatry.

1. They are not idolizing anything.
2. They’re not even praying.

An imaginary “god-being” isn’t idolatry. Idolizing, worshipping, venerating a false god is idolatry. Clicking a button to rack up your points in a world that includes religion for some realism doesn’t constitute idolatry in my book, and I would think many other Catholics would agree with me. I think some Protestant denominations just need something more to talk about.

If this could be considered idolatry, then so could J.R.R. Tolkien’s Silmarillion, although we know he was a faithful Roman Catholic.

Also, games such as World of Warcraft, where “magic” is used, could be construed to be diabolical because your “practicing” “witchcraft”, although we know you are practicing nothing. Your playing a game where part of the game is using imaginary magical powers.

 

[Morningkill]

If this could be considered idolatry, then so could J.R.R. Tolkien’s Silmarillion, although we know he was a faithful Roman Catholic.

Actually, as a resident Tolkien geek, I would point out that;

i) There is only one God in Middle Earth
ii) Tolkien maintained in several places that He was, in fact, the God of the Catholic Faith (although most likely in a pre-incarnation period)
iii) The Valar are NOT Gods, and were NEVER worshiped (except by the Men corrupted by Sauron to the worship of Melkor).

I am such a geek.

 

[Christophorus72]

Parents let their young kids play these games oblivious to what is going on. Kids aren’t mature enough to make right decisions they need parents to guide them. If the parents have no clue what is going on how are they going to be affectively stop kids from doing harm to themselves.

parents should NOT be oblivious to what their kids are doing.

 

[Crystal_H]

I cannot believe that you have to ask this question… sheesh…
Anything that takes precedence over your love of God is a sin…
My boys play RPGs , but they attend daily mass, pray the rosary, ask to go to confession .

So what if they have a little fun using their imagination. I think if you really tried to make breathing a sin you could.

Did you see any of the Lord of the Rings movies or read the books?
Give me a break.

Crystal

 

[Sublime_Prince]

I have nothing wrong with Lord of the Rings or those movies. I have been an avid fan of them. I love the movies myself and have read the books many times as a kid. I read many fantasy books as a Kid and don’t see anything wrong with fantasy in general.

I am talking about worshipping false Gods which blatantly happens in runescape. Unfortunately you have to play the game to really see what I mean. Many parents have no idea just what you are capable of doing in a video game.

Make no mistake this is conscious effort in this game to worship false Gods. And players actually act out worshipping these gods. You place your character on their knees, you praise them in glorious words, you surrender your soul to them.

Would it be ok to play a video game where you pretended to worship Buddha ? After all its only a video game, you aren’t actually worshipping Buddha in real life?

 

[Morningkill]

Make no mistake this is conscious effort in this game to worship false Gods.

A conscious effort to make a FICTIONAL character worship a FICTIONAL false god. And that is the distinction. If I write a story where a character rapes another, am I guilty of rape?

And players actually act out worshipping these gods. You place your character on their knees, you praise them in glorious words, you surrender your soul to them.

And I notice that you change the subject of the sentences halfway through there - “your character on their [sic] knees” becomes “you surrender your soul”. The two are NOT the same thing.

The player is not worshiping false gods - a character controlled by the player is (within the context of a story) worshiping another fictional character (who, let’s not forget, within the context of the story is actually a REAL god).

That is a key point which needs to be made - the character is NOT guilty of idolatory, because there is no such sin within the game world. In just the same way as a fictional world where there is no marriage and no idea of monogamy, adultery does not exist, idolatry does not apply when the non-Christian god being worshiped actually exists and is worthy of being worshiped WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME.

The player is telling a story - nothing more.

Would it be ok to play a video game where you pretended to worship Buddha ? After all its only a video game, you aren’t actually worshipping Buddha in real life?

Well, it would be a very inaccurate game - Buddhists don’t worship Buddha.

But, yes, it wouldn’t be a sin per se. No more than it is a sin for me (for example) to be in a movie and say something against blacks if that is the context of my character. It’s not real, it’s fictional.

Now, it would be wrong to show something negative in a positive light, or to cause confusion and scandal. And for someone who cannot keep a difference between fiction and truth this might be dangerous. But for someone who can, and who understands this, I would suggest that there is no sin which automatically comes simply from the fact of playing a game.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I am curious why the church has not taken a strong stance against some online video games while other denominations have?

I really don’t think many people outside the video game community know a great deal about what goes on in these games if they did I am 100% positive the church would be very against these types of games.

I have a weakness for these games, but I really feel that many I have played online are not healthy and are anti-christian.

Many games exist like Everquest, Diablo, God Wars, World of Warcraft, but i will use the game called Runescape for example.

In Runescape prayer is a very important part of the game. Players have to chant prayers in order to protect them from harm. These are not prayers to God, but to false Gods; the Gods that exist in runescape.

Prayer in runescape is a skill that can be raised, the higher your prayer level the more you will last in battle. I vividly remember training my prayer level for four hours straight by praying to false Gods without ceasing. This process included collecting bones, grinding them up,mixing them with slime, pooring this mixture over a statue of a false God then getting on my knees and praying to that statue continuously to gain prayer experience. Many players like myself would pray to these False Gods continuously for 4+ hours a day to raise there prayer experience as high as they could.

To gain access to high level magical spells a player has to pray to the God of his choice to gain access to that Gods “God spell”. These are the most powerful spells in the game. When a player casts a God spell he yells out “For the Glory of Sardomin!” or “For the glory of Guthix” or “For the Glory of Zamorak!”

In runescape stealing is greatly encouraged in fact it is a skill in the game the benefits the player and any player who chooses not to advance this skill is at a great disadvantage. Players steal from market stalls, guards, farmers, and many computer generated characters.

Players were for some time until recently encouraged to PK in the game. Player Killing is the process of killing another player and often stealing the other players possessions for profit. This is not often voluntary and many times not consensual. Many players have to venture into PK zones in order to complete quests in the game and have no choice.

Games like this teach the player to lie, to steal, to cheat and most of all greed is a central part of the game.

I was an odd ball playing a game most kids play, but it really concerned me playing the game how young the players I was playing with. I was worried their parents had no idea the corrupt morals games like this were teaching their children. These parents have no idea all the sins their children are committing online. You see online you can sin all you want in these games and no punishment will come to you. You can worship false Gods, steal from other players, cheat , lie , and defraud and in most cases no punishment will ever be handed down to you.

The main reason I think the church doesn’t take a stance on these games is the clergy in the catholic church at high ranking positions are all very old men who probably have never played an online video game in their life much less an online role-playing game. They have no idea about these games or much about what goes on in these games. They can only go by what they have heard. I am 100% positive if these clergy played the games online I have and have seen the false worship of Gods and the sins committed in these games they would not hesitate to take a strong stance against them.

I play Runescape but in a different way. I cyber-preach! I type in Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers and loads of other prayers. I also sit in those “temples” and tell people to leave. Actually it works very well!

 

[water]

I have nothing wrong with Lord of the Rings or those movies. I have been an avid fan of them.

I don’t see much difference between the movies you watched and those video games. It is all in the same category.

 

[water]

I play Runescape but in a different way. I cyber-preach! I type in Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers and loads of other prayers. I also sit in those “temples” and tell people to leave. Actually it works very well!

that’s interesting. I am way behind technology.

 

[zaffiroborant]

yeah I know the church took a strong stance against anything against the 10 commandments. But I really think they should take steps further by publicly denouncing some of these games like other denominations. I know many christians who play these games and think they are ok. Parents let their young kids play these games oblivious to what is going on. Kids aren’t mature enough to make right decisions they need parents to guide them. If the parents have no clue what is going on how are they going to be affectively stop kids from doing harm to themselves.

I think it’s the parents job it investigate and regulate what their kids want to read, play etc. Why should parents have no clue about the games the children they are responsible for are playing and yet the church is supposed to know all about all games out there? Can you say personal responsibility?

Should the church take on the job of reviewing all games, what about movies, television, music and books? As a parent I call it my job and feel the church has other responsibilities like forming adults who can make their own decisions about what is a good or bad game.

 

[solayan]

Whether or not the Church should or should not condemn games aside, if Runescape bothers you so much, but you still want to play an MMO, why not try another one with less problematic content?

Given that Tolkien has already been mentioned, I’ll put in a plug for my favourite game: Lord of the Rings Online. No false gods there, and some of the Catholic themes from the books make their way into the game.

 

[buffgbob]

I think it would be a hard case to make to say all MMORPG games are inherently wrong. The majority are just fictional stories that people can interact with in a community. In fact, what you’ll find is the main reason people continue to play these games is to maintain relationships in that community and not because of content/etc.

I personally play World of Warcraft with friends I grew up with but now live across the country. I play the game and talk with them about one to two hours a day (via a program named Ventrilo.) I am even interested in the lore of the game as a fictional means of entertainment.

I’m not saying that it is not abused. People can easily get absorbed into these games to a point where they are addicted. In this manner though it is no different from alcohol. Anything that is not purely good (God, Truth, Love, etc) leads itself to moderation. An abuse of that moderation is gluttonous.

I’m not suprised certain Protestant denominations say it is an evil. Of course, those same denominations say wine is an evil. It’s all in line with their erroneous doctrines.