Why don’t Catholics believe that Bible alone is Enough?

[chagel_333]

Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”.

“All scripture is given by by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[stoplooklisten]

Timothy

Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”.

“All scripture is given by by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

No. How is your Greek? You are depending upon someone’s translation work, especially for the word “perfect”.

No. Principles of hermeneutics require that you consider the “whole counsel of God” and not just one verse.

 

[Theban]

Where in the Bible does it say that we should include Timothy as Scripture?

If God didn’t give us a Divine List of Contents falling down from the sky, then it would seem we also need some higher authority than Scripture alone.

 

[po18guy]

What did Jesus Christ say about bible alone? Which bible did He write? Upon which scripture did He found His Church? Which twelve bibles did He send forth to make disciples of all nations? To which bible are we supposed to take disputes for resolution? Which bible forgives your sins in the Person of Christ? Which scripture must we eat and drink to have life in us? Which bible is the blood of the New Covenant? Which bible is the pillar and foundation of truth? Where did the “Sacred Table of Contents” of the bible come from? Where does the bible spell out what should be in the bible? For that matter, where is “bible” in the bible?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[OddBird]

You are depending upon someone’s translation work, especially for the word “perfect”

This. The Greek word here, ἄρτιος, means something like well-adjusted, adequate.

OP, you have to read that verse in the context of the whole epistle.

Paul is warning Timothy against ungodly babbling that acts like a canker, against foolish questions and against strife, against the people who pervert truth, deceive others, and try to prevent the teaching of the Gospel. He says that in face of such behaviour, Scripture is the source of wisdom which enables to address evil.

He is exhorting Timothy to keep the deposit of the faith in the face of adversity and opposers, not discussing hermeneutical principles.

Note that he also advises him to “hold fast to the sound words that he [Timothy] heard from him [Paul]” (2 Tim 1:13).

 

[puer.dei]

Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”.

Your own post shows that it says “all” scripture, not “only” scripture.

 

[stoplooklisten]

What did Jesus Christ say about bible alone? Which bible did He write? Upon which scripture did He found His Church? Which twelve bibles did He send forth to make disciples of all nations? To which bible are we supposed to take disputes for resolution? Which bible forgives your sins in the Person of Christ? Which scripture must we eat and drink to have life in us? Which bible is the blood of the New Covenant? Which bible is the pillar and foundation of truth? Where did the “Sacred Table of Contents” of the bible come from? Where does the bible spell out what should be in the bible? For that matter, where is “bible” in the bible?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Scripture never says that Scripture is sufficient.

Jesus Christ didn’t pen the Scriptures. The Church was established by Jesus Christ upon a foundation of Peter and the Twelve Apostles. Jesus established the Church decades before the New Testament began to be written, centuries before the New Testament Canon was defined by Church councils and 1400+ years before anything but hand-written copies of the New Testament existed.

The Apostle Paul wrote that the Church (not the Scriptures) was the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:14)

In the last book of the Bible (Revelation), Jesus says seven times: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches.” The canon of the New Testament closed but the Holy Spirit has continued to speak to the Catholic Church.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’m still looking for the word “sufficient” in your original post?

 

[Jimbo]

Given that it was written prior to the New Testament being codified or in some cases written, do you reject the New Testament then, as the only scriptures around then were the OT?

 

[EndTimes]

The Gospel preceded the New Testament

And? People were Saved…

 

[porthos11]

chagel_333:

Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”.

Your own post shows that it says “all” scripture, not “only” scripture.

And on whose authority should we accept any given set of books as inspired Scripture. How are we to know that the letters to Timothy are Scripture?

 

[adamhovey1988]

I noticed you didn’t share the verses before that, go read them

 

[KMC]

So at the time Paul wrote his 2nd letter to Timothy, just what was the definition of Scripture?

Jesus and the Apostles definition of Scripture would have been, more than likely, the Septuagint, since most of the quotes of the Old Testament found in the Gospels come from the Septuagint.

Apparently, Martin Luther and the rest of Protestantism didn’t feel that “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…” since seven books from the Old Testament Scriptures were called “apocrypha” by Martin Luther, and then removed by Protestant bible societies from their translations.

Can you show me within Scripture the list of books you have determined to be “Scripture”?

Also, since the books of the New Testament were not written until years after Jesus died, just how was the Gospel message transmitted until the New Testament was completed, and recognized as Sacred Scripture? Can you show me within Scripture the year that stipulated the oral Gospel was no longer sufficient, and a written Gospel is required to teach people?

 

[EndTimes]

So at the time Paul wrote his 2nd letter to Timothy, just what was the definition of Scripture?

Jesus’ Scriptures are our Old Testament

)

 

[EndTimes]

Also, since the books of the New Testament were not written until years after Jesus died, just how was the Gospel message transmitted until the New Testament was completed,

First are the actual Actions and Words of Jesus
Then. The Oral Accounts - Imbued/Infused with God’s Spirit from Pentecost onward…
Then… Written accounts followed.
Then… Those Written accounts deemed “Canon” … became the NT (c.400AD)

 

[Minks]

This Original Post topic idea is not Catholic teaching and needs to be moved to the Non-Catholic Forum.

 

[Fauken]

This Original Post topic idea is not Catholic teaching and needs to be moved to the Non-Catholic Forum.

This subforum is the apologetics subforum. Non-Catholic teachings may be discussed here insofar as it is about its refutation by Catholic theology. Since people are discussing how Sola Scriptura cannot be inferred from that verse, it can stay here.

 

[Gorgias]

Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”.

“All scripture is given by by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.”

Nope. The “perfection” doesn’t come from the knowledge (i.e., the “having been furnished”), but from the performance of all good works (which, although they are credited to Jesus, he nevertheless allows the merit to flow to us). So… Scripture isn’t sufficient… unless it performs the good works. Which… it doesn’t.

 

[EndTimes]

Scripture isn’t sufficient … unless it performs the good works.

Being OF God - i.e., God’s very WORD,
Sacred/Holy Scriptures nonetheless form a Foundational part of what the Church IS…

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias:

Scripture isn’t sufficient … unless it performs the good works.

Being OF God - i.e., God’s very WORD,
Sacred/Holy Scriptures nonetheless form a Foundational part of what the Church IS…

Nevertheless, the position of the Church is that Scripture is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient, for knowledge of the revelation of God.

Note that this is just knowledge, and not actual realized salvation.

So, the answer that @chagel_333 is looking for is a bit more complex than he might have expected:

• Scripture is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient, for knowledge of revelation
• Jesus’ grace is sufficient for all, but only efficacious for those who accept His word and live it out in their lives
• Therefore, the Bible is not efficacious for salvation (i.e., one is not saved merely by having or reading a Bible), but rather, provides (much of) the tools we need in order to be saved.

It’s always a bit more nuanced an explanation than it might appear at first blush, eh?