Why don't Catholics have Open Communion?

[wmscott]

(Please read this entire post)
The Eucharist is the ultimate sign of the anguish Christ experienced in his sacrifice, his saving grace through faith in his sacrifice, and the partaker’s willingness to except the sacrifice for propitiation of his/her sins as a believer.

Since when does Holy Communion go from signifying the perfect sacrifice of our Lord and Savior’s earthly body, to showing unity/disunity of doctrine and dogma and using it as an instrument to exclude those whose only theological difference may well be papal authority? That seems to me to be using the gift of salvation and the ritual of Eucharist to divide Christendom in a time when we should be doing things to unify the true universal church. Having cross-denomination dialogues once a year will hardly make a difference either. Someone needs to take a leap of faith in knocking down a wall. I fervently belief things like this displease Christ.

I agree like I said, that many schools of though in the faith do embrace closed communions. It’s a sad fact that they use the Holy Table which should be open to all true Christians, to be an instrument of dissonance and division, and here is why I feel this is the truth:

The Church does realize those baptized from other faiths to be true believers, and Christians. In fact in scripture, the only thing that should deter a partaker from communion is being unworthy or being in a state of sin. Surely if a person from another denomination is considered saved by the Church, then it is before they have had a confession in the Catholic rite and been catechized. To say they need to first join the Church and have a confession is to say those outside Catholicism are not, and cannot be saved, which is an issue that was understood to be false by most people ever since Luther pointed out that at the time, there were those in Greek Orthodoxy who were Christians but considered outside the Church and therefore outside salvation which was ludicrous.

Surely Peter and Paul shared communion together despite their large theological differences, for if they didn’t I’m quite certain it would have been noted in scripture, and one of the apostles would have cited the event as an example other believers should follow as to worshiping with those with differing beliefs, however we do not see this demonstrated in any of the epistles.

All that said, I have Catholic friends and although not Catholic myself, I sympathize with many of the Church’s stances and teachings and will always defend the RCC when I am able to do so, as I do with other denominations that proclaim the word of God.

Please let me address one of the points that you have raised because I feel this is important clear up a misrepresentation in one of your statements. You state “To say they need to first join the Church and have a confession is to say those outside Catholicism are not, and cannot be saved” is incorrect. The Catholic Church teaches the following:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

 

[ajatkinson]

Communion means to become one with
when we receive communion, we become one with the body of Christ. and what is the body of Christ? the Church. so if you’re not part of the Church, how can you be part of the Body of Christ?

So unbelievers aside, you are telling me that Methodists, Anglicans, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, etc who are baptized Christians are outside the body of Christ? This is the illness which keeps such a separation alive and I feel Satan loves feeding on people’s pride of being the “True Church” to allow for his evil will to be accomplished. The reason I am compelled to say this is that Roman Catholics aren’t the only ones to stake this claim-to-fame. The Church of Christ is known for it, as are other groups. I like the Lutheran approach. The LCMS recognizes they are the True Church, but reject the idea they are the only ones. They say "We Lutherans do have the truth, indeed. The difference is that we don’t think we are the only ones that have it" Sadly, they too practice closed communion, albeit not as strictly as do others.

To say “The RCC never refused communion to anyone, all are free to partake, only they must become Catholic first” is an oxymoron.

The Church recognizes others outside Catholicism as real Christians,this is why there is a differentiation between candidates and catechumens, those going into RCIA already baptized Christians vs those who haven’t had Christian Baptism.

**The individual IS part of the body of Christ, and part of the “church” just not Catholicism and the RCC. The RCC is the True Church of Christ, but it has not been the ONLY true church of Christ (the universal body of Christians) for quite some time. Even before the reformation there were the Greek Christians, who were thought of as “outside the church, outside of salvation” by many church leaders of the day, but no one today would argue the salvation and devotion of the Greek Christians. **

Any other attempt at justifying a closed communion with these facts in the light point to desires for division or elevating ones own beliefs higher than those of his neighbor, and I can assure you is not biblical, as I said I’m sure Peter and Paul celebrated communion together despite their MAJOR doctrinal differences. That is all denomination boils down to for the most part (except for some of the wacky denomination that are cult-like, but I’d imagine it is still a matter of doctrine and interpretation.)

 

[Esdra]

So unbelievers aside, you are telling me that Methodists, Anglicans, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, etc who are baptized Christians are outside the body of Christ? This is the illness which keeps such a separation alive and I feel Satan loves feeding on people’s pride of being the “True Church” to allow for his evil will to be accomplished. The reason I am compelled to say this is that Roman Catholics aren’t the only ones to stake this claim-to-fame. The Church of Christ is known for it, as are other groups.

I like the Lutheran approach. The LCMS recognizes they are the True Church, but reject the idea they are the only ones. They say "We Lutherans do have the truth, indeed. The difference is that we don’t think we are the only ones that have it" Sadly, they too practice closed communion, albeit not as strictly as do others.

What do you mean with closed communion in this case?
That, let’s say Catholics are not allowed to partake?
It so, I can tell you this is completely FALSE! I have often been in Lutheran services and also Catholics are wellcome to partake in the Holy Supper!

To say “The RCC never refused communion to anyone, all are free to partake, only they must become Catholic first” is an oxymoron.

The Church recognizes others outside Catholicism as real Christians,this is why there is a differentiation between candidates and catechumens, those going into RCIA already baptized Christians vs those who haven’t had Christian Baptism.

**The individual IS part of the body of Christ, and part of the “church” just not Catholicism and the RCC. The RCC is the True Church of Christ, but it has not been the ONLY true church of Christ (the universal body of Christians) for quite some time. Even before the reformation there were the Greek Christians, who were thought of as “outside the church, outside of salvation” by many church leaders of the day, but no one today would argue the salvation and devotion of the Greek Christians. **

Any other attempt at justifying a closed communion with these facts in the light point to desires for division or elevating ones own beliefs higher than those of his neighbor, and I can assure you is not biblical, as I said I’m sure Peter and Paul celebrated communion together despite their MAJOR doctrinal differences. That is all denomination boils down to for the most part (except for some of the wacky denomination that are cult-like, but I’d imagine it is still a matter of doctrine and interpretation.)

Esdra

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yhis is just about the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever read! These disciples were neither catholic or Protestant,you can’t prove it one way or another. Judas was one of 12 disciples, who just happened to be the one chosen to betray Christ; it was all prophesied! To call him a Protestant or a catholic, Mormon, or Baptist is ludicrous! He was part of the plan!

It was a failed attempt at a tongue-in-cheek humor

But seriously, the Pope was there

 

[ConstantineTG]

So unbelievers aside, you are telling me that Methodists, Anglicans, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, etc who are baptized Christians are outside the body of Christ? This is the illness which keeps such a separation alive and I feel Satan loves feeding on people’s pride of being the “True Church” to allow for his evil will to be accomplished. The reason I am compelled to say this is that Roman Catholics aren’t the only ones to stake this claim-to-fame. The Church of Christ is known for it, as are other groups. I like the Lutheran approach. The LCMS recognizes they are the True Church, but reject the idea they are the only ones. They say "We Lutherans do have the truth, indeed. The difference is that we don’t think we are the only ones that have it" Sadly, they too practice closed communion, albeit not as strictly as do others.

No matter what the Catholic Church says, many non-Catholic Christians see the Catholic Church as evil and wrong, one way or another. How is that the Catholic Chruch’s fault that there is no union?

To say “The RCC never refused communion to anyone, all are free to partake, only they must become Catholic first” is an oxymoron.

No its not. They are free to become Catholic, then they can partake. Its the roadmap to what is. Anyone can become Catholic, that is true. What is an oxymoron is claiming entitlement to an act that professes unity with a Church when you are not in union with that Church.

The Church recognizes others outside Catholicism as real Christians,this is why there is a differentiation between candidates and catechumens, those going into RCIA already baptized Christians vs those who haven’t had Christian Baptism.

**The individual IS part of the body of Christ, and part of the “church” just not Catholicism and the RCC. The RCC is the True Church of Christ, but it has not been the ONLY true church of Christ (the universal body of Christians) for quite some time. Even before the reformation there were the Greek Christians, who were thought of as “outside the church, outside of salvation” by many church leaders of the day, but no one today would argue the salvation and devotion of the Greek Christians. **

The Catholic Church is the true Church, the RCC is just 1/23rd of the entire Church.

Any other attempt at justifying a closed communion with these facts in the light point to desires for division or elevating ones own beliefs higher than those of his neighbor, and I can assure you is not biblical, as I said I’m sure Peter and Paul celebrated communion together despite their MAJOR doctrinal differences. That is all denomination boils down to for the most part (except for some of the wacky denomination that are cult-like, but I’d imagine it is still a matter of doctrine and interpretation.)

In our own bodies there are many foreign bacteria. Some good, some bad, and there are our own body cells. If you are not working in harmony with the body, you cause illness. This is what Communion is. How can you claim to be part of the body that you are not entirely harmonious to? Communion isn’t some kind of pill that you get your “daily dose of Jesus” from. It is the center of our faith where you not only receive the graces from God, but you also profess your faith. If you believe in a Jesus other than the Jesus the Catholic Church is teaching, why are you receiving Jesus in the Catholic Church? Isn’t that lying to Jesus?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m not sure why you admonished me to read the entire post. I always do? I’m not a cliff notes reader here?

I disagree with this post nevertheless. Peter and Paul didn’t have theological differences. They had polity arguments about table fellowship that were resolved. They met in council, were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and stayed unified so the illustration doesn’t resonate, respectfully.

You’re trying to create a false dichotomy here. You’re saying that the Eucharist cannot be the fullness of Jesus’ body, blood, divinity, compassion, and totality AND a sign of unity and cohesion of theology and morality and polity. I don’t see why not. And Church history doesn’t make such a dichotomy either?

In any case, may Christ’s peace, a Merry Christmas, and very Happy New Year be with you

(Please read this entire post)
The Eucharist is the ultimate sign of the anguish Christ experienced in his sacrifice, his saving grace through faith in his sacrifice, and the partaker’s willingness to except the sacrifice for propitiation of his/her sins as a believer.

Since when does Holy Communion go from signifying the perfect sacrifice of our Lord and Savior’s earthly body, to showing unity/disunity of doctrine and dogma and using it as an instrument to exclude those whose only theological difference may well be papal authority? That seems to me to be using the gift of salvation and the ritual of Eucharist to divide Christendom in a time when we should be doing things to unify the true universal church. Having cross-denomination dialogues once a year will hardly make a difference either. Someone needs to take a leap of faith in knocking down a wall. I fervently belief things like this displease Christ.

I agree like I said, that many schools of though in the faith do embrace closed communions. It’s a sad fact that they use the Holy Table which should be open to all true Christians, to be an instrument of dissonance and division, and here is why I feel this is the truth:

The Church does realize those baptized from other faiths to be true believers, and Christians. In fact in scripture, the only thing that should deter a partaker from communion is being unworthy or being in a state of sin. Surely if a person from another denomination is considered saved by the Church, then it is before they have had a confession in the Catholic rite and been catechized. To say they need to first join the Church and have a confession is to say those outside Catholicism are not, and cannot be saved, which is an issue that was understood to be false by most people ever since Luther pointed out that at the time, there were those in Greek Orthodoxy who were Christians but considered outside the Church and therefore outside salvation which was ludicrous.

Surely Peter and Paul shared communion together despite their large theological differences, for if they didn’t I’m quite certain it would have been noted in scripture, and one of the apostles would have cited the event as an example other believers should follow as to worshiping with those with differing beliefs, however we do not see this demonstrated in any of the epistles.

All that said, I have Catholic friends and although not Catholic myself, I sympathize with many of the Church’s stances and teachings and will always defend the RCC when I am able to do so, as I do with other denominations that proclaim the word of God.

 

[jmcrae]

They have no authority because the leaders of the Church doesn’t grant the authority to the priests!

No, it is because the Protestants themselves don’t grant authority to the priests - or to the Pope. If he has no expectation of being obeyed, why should he give you anything? Why should he treat you as his son or as his daughter, if you will not call him “Father”?

The fact is, the Vatican could say tomorrow that the Lord’s Table be open to all true believers, but then, who would join the Catholic Church any more?

The Table is open to all true believers - and you identify yourself as such when you make your Profession of Faith, and receive the Sacraments of Initiation in the Church.

Otherwise, we have no way of knowing what you believe.

I sure wouldn’t take a course for six months to a year+ if I were already able to take communion. It is NOT doctrine, it’s a business model. Were there no RCIA for those already baptized who understand the Church’s doctrine, I’d probably become Catholic a tomorrow.

And if you really want to be Catholic, you could join RCIA tomorrow, and be Catholic in a year or less - especially if you are as well informed as you claim to be - I was brought into the Church within less than three months, because I had already been attending Mass for 17 years, and I already knew most of the content of the course, and I was already practicing Catholic devotions at home.

Look, I am NOT saying open your communion table to Jehovah’s Witnesses, I am just saying it would be a good show of faith to allow the Eucharist to be between Christ and the believer and trust that before receiving the Body and Blood, he/she has prayerfully examined himself and acted according to the direction of the spirit.

Which, would open it up to anyone who fancies himself a believer in Christ, even if his “Christ” is an idol made with human hands.

 

[1beleevr]

You’re right, turn the other cheek. Never mind that many of them keep calling us the Whore of Babylon, we shouldn’t be going down to that level.

Until I came on this forum, I had never heard of the catholic church being called the Whore of Babylon!

 

[1beleevr]

Nothing was starteduntil after Pentecost; there was no religion other than the Pharisees and Sadducees, who had way too much religion! Well unless you want to count John the Baptis! LOL! The disciples were just that, disciples; followers of Christ and He wasn’t catholic either!

 

[1beleevr]

So unbelievers aside, you are telling me that Methodists, Anglicans, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, etc who are baptized Christians are outside the body of Christ? This is the illness which keeps such a separation alive and I feel Satan loves feeding on people’s pride of being the “True Church” to allow for his evil will to be accomplished. The reason I am compelled to say this is that Roman Catholics aren’t the only ones to stake this claim-to-fame. The Church of Christ is known for it, as are other groups. I like the Lutheran approach. The LCMS recognizes they are the True Church, but reject the idea they are the only ones. They say "We Lutherans do have the truth, indeed. The difference is that we don’t think we are the only ones that have it" Sadly, they too practice closed communion, albeit not as strictly as do others.

To say “The RCC never refused communion to anyone, all are free to partake, only they must become Catholic first” is an oxymoron.

The Church recognizes others outside Catholicism as real Christians,this is why there is a differentiation between candidates and catechumens, those going into RCIA already baptized Christians vs those who haven’t had Christian Baptism.

**The individual IS part of the body of Christ, and part of the “church” just not Catholicism and the RCC. The RCC is the True Church of Christ, but it has not been the ONLY true church of Christ (the universal body of Christians) for quite some time. Even before the reformation there were the Greek Christians, who were thought of as “outside the church, outside of salvation” by many church leaders of the day, but no one today would argue the salvation and devotion of the Greek Christians. **

Any other attempt at justifying a closed communion with these facts in the light point to desires for division or elevating ones own beliefs higher than those of his neighbor, and I can assure you is not biblical, as I said I’m sure Peter and Paul celebrated communion together despite their MAJOR doctrinal differences. That is all denomination boils down to for the most part (except for some of the wacky denomination that are cult-like, but I’d imagine it is still a matter of doctrine and interpretation.)

Great post, lots of good points about separation and exclusivity!

 

[1beleevr]

It was a failed attempt at a tongue-in-cheek humor

But seriously, the Pope was there

Upper Room, 13 men, no catholics, no Protestants; and no pope!

 

[jmcrae]

Upper Room, 13 men, no catholics, no Protestants; and no pope!

Uh - Jesus was saying the first Mass, and the 12 were all receiving their First Holy Communion. Of course they were Catholic!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, not much of a grey area there LOL…and the Church was about as pure catholic at that time as things could be!

Uh - Jesus was saying the first Mass, and the 12 were all receiving their First Holy Communion. Of course they were Catholic!

 

[mountaintop]

Actually, it’s more like, There is not much point inviting Uncle Chuck, Aunt Jackie, or Cousin Dave, because while they sit there eating our food, between mouthfuls they sit there and insult Mom and Dad, boss them around and tell them how they should raise us kids, then try to kidnap us kids and take us back to their place, and we hear from those who’ve been taken that although it’s fun for the first little while to eat nothing but dessert, don’t go to school, and do whatever they want, after a while, they start pining for Mom’s cooking and Dad’s discipline.

it’s always been like that. when Moses went to get the Jews out of Egypt all they did was grumble. can you be a blood corpuscle in the body without the Eucharist?

 

[mountaintop]

There was no pomp or circumstance in the Upper Room that night! 12 men, united as One, communing, and the pope was not there, as one other poster said! The pope hadn’t been assigned yet; this was prepentecostal! The Eucharist is probably nice and all, but not the ONLY wayto do Communion!

Peter the first Pope was their and so was Satan Judas. who do you want to sit by?

 

[Carlan]

Well I am a Methodist by membership, Anglican in beliefs. I was raised Baptist, my father is a pastor and his father and three brothers are deacons. Fun stuff.

Anyhow, I would probably be Episcopalian I might imagine if it weren’t for such tomfoolery as to ordain homosexual clergy. Appalling. I wish there were more “High Church” Methodist Churches out there. Allot of protestants fear being too formal as being “too Catholic” which I think is bologna.

Well, I am a Catholic,and as such I would never rec’ communion in your Church , because if I did I would be a hypocrite,seeing that you do not accept the full Truth of Apostolic teaching and you teach that Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol of what Christ did for us.
Why would you want to receive Communion in the Catholic Church if you do not believe you are receiving Him, Body, Blood Soul and Divinity all Truth ,the very center of our worship? You would be acting out a lie!
If you actually do believe in the Truth of the Eucharist (Study John6, all of it don’t skip any of it,do so with you mind open and with the Holy Spirit shining light) You would then find the shortest path into the nearest Catholic so that you could rec’ Him worthily. Peace, Carlan

 

[Esdra]

Well, I am a Catholic,and as such I would never rec’ communion in your Church , because if I did I would be a hypocrite,seeing that you do not accept the full Truth of Apostolic teaching and you teach that Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol of what Christ did for us.
Why would you want to receive Communion in the Catholic Church if you do not believe you are receiving Him, Body, Blood Soul and Divinity all Truth ,the very center of our worship? You would be acting out a lie!
If you actually do believe in the Truth of the Eucharist (Study John6, all of it don’t skip any of it,do so with you mind open and with the Holy Spirit shining light) You would then find the shortest path into the nearest Catholic so that you could rec’ Him worthily. Peace, Carlan

Well, I also don’t believe that I recieve literal the blood and body of Christ in the Eucharist. - I guess hardly none of my family and my acquaintances do.

Despite we are all Catholic, and we go to the table of the Lord.

Are we all heretics?!

Esdra

 

[Carlan]

Well, I also don’t believe that I receive literal the blood and body of Christ in the Eucharist. - I guess hardly none of my family and my acquaintances do.

Despite we are all Catholic, and we go to the table of the Lord.

Are we all heretics?!

Esdra

If you and your family are Latin Rite members of the Apostolic Church,and you don’t believe ,as you should, in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I would say yes you are heretics.
peace, Carlan
her·e·tic
Definition:
Somebody who holds unorthodox religious belief: a holder or adherent of an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching

 

[ConstantineTG]

Upper Room, 13 men, no catholics, no Protestants; and no pope!

Can’t find any passage in Scripture that Peter left early. Only Judas

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I would really read the Fathers, especially Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp, and Augustine and company. The Eucharist is the sublime presence of Christ in the Eucharist, truly God and truly Man, Body, Blood, Soul, Divinity, united in the Holy Meal. I pray you will come to appreciate this Sacrament. Think that for 1,500 years the entire Church, even in Schism, East and West, believed in the Real Presence. Hard to imagine Christ let His Church believe something so outrageous for 1,500 plus years? Even Luther was passionate about a literal presence. I hope you pray hard and read hard about this and re-consider. The Church would love to have you, friend!

Well, I also don’t believe that I recieve literal the blood and body of Christ in the Eucharist. - I guess hardly none of my family and my acquaintances do.

Despite we are all Catholic, and we go to the table of the Lord.

Are we all heretics?!

Esdra