Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter anon
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anon

Guest
I found an interesting article written by a rabbi about why Jews don’t regard Jesus as the Messiah. Here is the link:

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

Some of the interesting points Rabbi Simmons makes is that in Judaism, belief is based solely on national revelation. Do Christians accept only national revelation as well? If not, how does one know what revelation to follow? Another interesting statement that the rabbi makes is that Judaism believes in the “Seven Laws of Noah” for non-Jews. Does anybody know what these are? How would a Christian respond to the rabbi’s article? Thanks in advance for any answers!😛
 
anon said:
I found an interesting article written by a rabbi about why Jews don’t regard Jesus as the Messiah. Here is the link:

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

Some of the interesting points Rabbi Simmons makes is that in Judaism, belief is based solely on national revelation. Do Christians accept only national revelation as well? If not, how does one know what revelation to follow? Another interesting statement that the rabbi makes is that Judaism believes in the “Seven Laws of Noah” for non-Jews. Does anybody know what these are? How would a Christian respond to the rabbi’s article? Thanks in advance for any answers!😛
Click to expand...
The “national revelation” thing doesnt really work considering factors like Abraham. Abraham was the first to receive the covenant of circumcision…However Abraham was virtually alone in his walk with God, there was no “national revelation” in Abraham’s lifetime.
 
I’ve herad it put that Jews believe Jesus was simply, “a smart Jewish kid who made it big in the religion biz”.
 
I believe the 7 Noahide laws are:

Honor your father & mother
Do not kill
Do not commit adultery
Do not steal
Do not bear false witness
Do not covet your neighbor’s wife
Do not covet your neighbor’s goods

These laws are the ones written on our hearts (natural law) and therefore applicable to all peoples and can be found in some form in all cultures.
 
From Judaism 101

The Seven Laws of Noah

According to traditional Judaism, G-d gave Noah and his family seven commandments to observe when he saved them from the flood. These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. These commandments are fairly simple and straightforward, and most of them are recognized by most of the world as sound moral principles. Any non-Jew who follows these laws has a place in the world to come.
 
anon said:
I found an interesting article written by a rabbi about why Jews don’t regard Jesus as the Messiah. Here is the link:

Redirecting...

Some of the interesting points Rabbi Simmons makes is that in Judaism, belief is based solely on national revelation. Do Christians accept only national revelation as well? If not, how does one know what revelation to follow? Another interesting statement that the rabbi makes is that Judaism believes in the “Seven Laws of Noah” for non-Jews. Does anybody know what these are? How would a Christian respond to the rabbi’s article? Thanks in advance for any answers!😛
Click to expand...
National revelation refers to God’s revealation before the entire people of Israel at Mt. Sinai.

The Noahide Laws are the commandments which the sages believed all non-Jews needed to follow in order to live moral, ethical lives. They center around prohibitions agains idol worship, murder, theft, tearing the limb from a living animal, establishing courts and a fair justice system.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The “national revelation” thing doesnt really work considering factors like Abraham. Abraham was the first to receive the covenant of circumcision…However Abraham was virtually alone in his walk with God, there was no “national revelation” in Abraham’s lifetime.
Click to expand...
But Abraham’s story is part of the national revelation, since the gift of Torah is part of it.
 
Valke2 said:
But Abraham’s story is part of the national revelation, since the gift of Torah is part of it.
Click to expand...
That doesnt work though because it goes back in time, there were what 500 years separating Mt Sinai and Abraham?

The historical fact remains Abraham already was following the True God and God revealed to Abraham through various promises for his obedience. The covenant of circumcision was started with Abraham and went all the way to the Jews at Mt Sinai.
 
reborn_pagan said:
correct me if im wrong but wasn’t jesus jewish?
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, but what does this have to do with the OP?

In the early ekklesia (the ‘church’) Jews still followed the Law and met on the Lord’s Day (our Sunday) to remember Jesus as he commanded.

As the movement spread to non-Jews (called “Godfearers” in the NT) many Jews wanted the Gentiles to follow the Law (circumcision; kosher; purification). This is why the Catholic Church kept St Paul’s letters: they address many of these issues between Jews and non-Jews who followed Jesus as the Son of Man and the Messiah promised and predicted in Jewish Scripture (there was NO canon of Jewish scripture prior to Jamnia approximately 90 AD).

Regardless of the idiots throughout history in positions of power (bad popes; bad kings and dukes; bad queens and counts) who persecuted the Jews for (primarily) the scandalous accusation of being God Killers (which when you think about it was predicted in OT scripture and thus was necessary for the Divine Plan; but the sheer evilness and stupidity of fundamentalists in the Church is for another thread), the Catholic Church is primarily through Jesus, the new chosen people: all nations, all people. The message was for all, not for just the Jews.

This does not change the covenant God has with the Jews. They are still the Chosen People and (according to John Paul II and many, many Catholics) under the grace of God and the salvation of His mercy. Heck, my wife is Jewish. I’m the one who better work out my salvation in “fear and trembling!”

Sorry for running on, RB, but that in a nutshell (old law school habits die hard) is a gloss on Jews/Jesus/Christians.
 
Sorry, one more thing.

Christianity does not have a place in Jewish understanding parallel to the place that Judaism has in Christian identity.

John Paul (the Great!) believes that Catholics have a religious obligation (a tad redundant, I know, religion means ‘public duty’ or ‘obligation’!) to learn from our Jewish brothers and sisters and to ensure that a theological conversation between us can start again (picking up from Letter to the Hebrews, no doubt!).

In Sep 2000, over 150 Jewish scholars and religious leaders (mostly from US and Canada) issued a statement on Christians and Christianity: ‘Dabru Emet’ or Speak the Truth.

They agreed (proof that God does exist: rabbis and theologians agreeing! A miracle!) on eight points of commonality:
  1. Js and Cs worship the same God
  2. Js and Cs seek authority and draw similar lessons from the same book (the Tanakh)
  3. Cs can respect the J claim upon the land of Israel
  4. Js and Cs share the same basic moral law, including a commitment to the sanctity and dignity of every human life
  5. Nazism was NOT a Christian phenomenon, although Christian anti-Jewish prejudice prepared the ground for Nazi anti-Semitism
  6. The differences between Js and Cs will not be resolved until God redeems the entire world
  7. A new religious dialogue with Cs will not weaken Jewish practice or accelerate Jewish assimilation
  8. Js and Cs must work together for justice and peace.
That’s all folks!

Pax Christi,

Jonathan
 
Catholic_Dude said:
That doesnt work though because it goes back in time, there were what 500 years separating Mt Sinai and Abraham?

The historical fact remains Abraham already was following the True God and God revealed to Abraham through various promises for his obedience. The covenant of circumcision was started with Abraham and went all the way to the Jews at Mt Sinai.
Click to expand...
Yes. But he wasn’t a nation. And he was pre-Torah. Judaism revolves around Torah and national revelation.
 
JonathanKinsman said:
Sorry, one more thing.

Christianity does not have a place in Jewish understanding parallel to the place that Judaism has in Christian identity.

John Paul (the Great!) believes that Catholics have a religious obligation (a tad redundant, I know, religion means ‘public duty’ or ‘obligation’!) to learn from our Jewish brothers and sisters and to ensure that a theological conversation between us can start again (picking up from Letter to the Hebrews, no doubt!).

In Sep 2000, over 150 Jewish scholars and religious leaders (mostly from US and Canada) issued a statement on Christians and Christianity: ‘Dabru Emet’ or Speak the Truth.

They agreed (proof that God does exist: rabbis and theologians agreeing! A miracle!) on eight points of commonality:
  1. Js and Cs worship the same God
  2. Js and Cs seek authority and draw similar lessons from the same book (the Tanakh)
  3. Cs can respect the J claim upon the land of Israel
  4. Js and Cs share the same basic moral law, including a commitment to the sanctity and dignity of every human life
  5. Nazism was NOT a Christian phenomenon, although Christian anti-Jewish prejudice prepared the ground for Nazi anti-Semitism
  6. The differences between Js and Cs will not be resolved until God redeems the entire world
  7. A new religious dialogue with Cs will not weaken Jewish practice or accelerate Jewish assimilation
  8. Js and Cs must work together for justice and peace.
That’s all folks!

Pax Christi,

Jonathan
Click to expand...
That is very cool. Do have a link for this September 2000 event?
 
Do have a link for this…?

The declaration was called “Dabru Emet” (“speak truth”) - the text can be read here:
icjs.org/what/njsp/dabruemet.html

Professor Amy-Jill Levine, a Conservative Jew and professor of New Testament at Vanderbilt University, talks about this (among other things) in a fascinating lecture called “Reassessing Jewish-Christian Relations” that can be viewed for free at this site (requires RealPlayer):
uctv.tv/series/index.asp?detail=detail&showID=5577&number=10
 
Valke2 said:
Yes. But he wasn’t a nation. And he was pre-Torah. Judaism revolves around Torah and national revelation.
Click to expand...
Surely Abraham is more essential than the Torah? Without his obedience there would be no Jews at all. The promises given to him were passed on generation after generation long before the Torah came along. In my mind, Judaism revolves around the covenant of circumcision given to Abraham to which the Torah is an extention of that covenant.
 
Considering ethnically-Jewish *atheists *get to call themselves Jews, I’d point out that actually a lot of Jews do believe in Jesus. They’d be the ethnically-Jewish Christians.

Or, as in all things, “Depends how you define your terms.”
 
KarenNC said:
Do have a link for this…?

The declaration was called “Dabru Emet” (“speak truth”) - the text can be read here:
icjs.org/what/njsp/dabruemet.html

Professor Amy-Jill Levine, a Conservative Jew and professor of New Testament at Vanderbilt University, talks about this (among other things) in a fascinating lecture called “Reassessing Jewish-Christian Relations” that can be viewed for free at this site (requires RealPlayer):
uctv.tv/series/index.asp?detail=detail&showID=5577&number=10
Click to expand...
Thanks. 👍
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Surely Abraham is more essential than the Torah? Without his obedience there would be no Jews at all. The promises given to him were passed on generation after generation long before the Torah came along. In my mind, Judaism revolves around the covenant of circumcision given to Abraham to which the Torah is an extention of that covenant.
Click to expand...
WIthout the TOrah there would be no point in being Jewish. And it is not a question of which is more essential. There could be no national revelation to Abraham because there was no nation.
 
Valke2 said:
WIthout the TOrah there would be no point in being Jewish. And it is not a question of which is more essential. There could be no national revelation to Abraham because there was no nation.
Click to expand...
I think we have to separate between the revelation of the True God to Abraham and the Covenant of God with the people of Israel.

As the people of Israel are simply the offspring of Abraham (and his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob), so Abraham was really “the people of Israel in one person”. So a discussion whether “there was a nation or not” in Abraham’s time is beside the point.

God’s revelation to and covenant with Abraham was but the first step of His great project of Redemption. The next step was the Covenant, with the giving of the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Laws, which forged the offspring of Abraham (=the people of Israel) in one nation, separated by religion from their neighbors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top