Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?

[ricmat]

Christ was not invented by Gentiles. He was presented to Gentiles by Jews themselves. Despite the modernist interpretation there is no reason to suppose there was some sort of multifaith/multicultural mix at the crucifixion

Who scourged Him?

Who gave him a cloak and crown of thorns?

Who pounded in the nails?

Who pierced His side?

Who gambled for his garments?

I’m assuming that you actually do know the answer to these questions.

BTW - I’m about as far as you can get from the modernist heresy…I’m probably to the right of Corapi and Hahn.

.

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

Who scourged Him?

Who gave him a cloak and crown of thorns?

Who pounded in the nails?

Who pierced His side?

Who gambled for his garments?

I’m assuming that you actually do know the answer to these questions.

BTW - I’m about as far as you can get from the modernist heresy…I’m probably to the right of Corapi and Hahn.

.

This is pretty straightforward.

The New Testament writers were Jewish - with the possible exception of Luke, writin for mainly Jewish Christians. Jewish opposition to Jesus was conflict between Jews.

Pilate ordered Jesus’ execution because the high priest recommended it. Jesus was being called king of the Jews, an intolerable offense. Pilate understood Jesus to be a threat to the Jews not to Rome, and therefore made no effort to arrest and execute Jesus’ followers.

The gospels show Jesus to have been condemned by a Jewish mob, against Pilate’s better judgment. The gospels report that Pilate was worried, that his wife told him to take no action, that he consulted the Jewish mob and pleaded on Jesus’ behalf, and finally, that he caved in to public pressure and ordered Jesus’ execution.

 

[Augustine22]

Tradcatholic writes–

“The Jews once held a special place in God’s heart but they are now an accursed people and will remain so until the end of time and no amount of wishy-washy watered down “feel good” theology will alter that fact. This is the awful truth. They invoked a dreadful curse upon their own heads in saying: “His blood be on us and our children”. Jews still inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers.”

Your even more extreme than Robert Sungenis against Jews. Even Sungenis would say this is wrong. It’s a little funny to do this, but here goes. Read what he wrote. If you think he’s wrong you can tell him yourself.

Read-- 1) Question 57 from Dec 2006
catholicintl.com/qa/2006/qa-dec-06.htm

1. Question 25 from Sept 2005

catholicintl.com/qa/2005/qa-sept-05.htm

Nostra Aetate says–

(or are you the kind of Traditionalist that doesn’t respect Nostra Aetate? I don’t know…)

#4 of Nostra Aetate–

**"Nevertheless, according to the apostle, because of their fathers the Jews still remain most dear to God who does not repent of His gifts and calling…

Although the Jewish authorities with their followers pressed for the death of Christ, still those things that were perpetrated during His passion cannot be ascribed indiscriminately to all the Jews living at the time nor to the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be represented as rejected by God or accursed, as if this followed from the Holy Scripture."**

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

Tradcatholic writes–

“The Jews once held a special place in God’s heart but they are now an accursed people and will remain so until the end of time and no amount of wishy-washy watered down “feel good” theology will alter that fact. This is the awful truth. They invoked a dreadful curse upon their own heads in saying: “His blood be on us and our children”. Jews still inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers.”

Your even more extreme than Robert Sungenis against Jews. Even Sungenis would say this is wrong. It’s a little funny to do this, but here goes. Read what he wrote. If you think he’s wrong you can tell him yourself.

Read-- 1) Question 57 from Dec 2006
catholicintl.com/qa/2006/qa-dec-06.htm

1. Question 25 from Sept 2005

catholicintl.com/qa/2005/qa-sept-05.htm

Nostra Aetate says–

(or are you the kind of Traditionalist that doesn’t respect Nostra Aetate? I don’t know…)

#4 of Nostra Aetate–

**"Nevertheless, according to the apostle, because of their fathers the Jews still remain most dear to God who does not repent of His gifts and calling…

Although the Jewish authorities with their followers pressed for the death of Christ, still those things that were perpetrated during His passion cannot be ascribed indiscriminately to all the Jews living at the time nor to the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be represented as rejected by God or accursed, as if this followed from the Holy Scripture."**

Perhaps that means Jews should not be represented as rejected by God or accursed as if Jews cannot be saved for Christ’s Glory. In which case I agree wholeheartedly.

No, I mean accursed as in a people uniquely cursed by God Himself. Surely the poor wretched plight of the Jewish people themselves in the last 2000 years, not to mention the holocaust or the current threat of a second shoah proves that point - does it not?

thank you for the link to CAI. It is an interesting site filled with many thought provoking articles. Certainly worth careful consideration. I hope every Catholic will avail themselves, which they will now you have thoughtfully provided the link

Shalom and have a nice day.

 

[Montalban]

This is pretty straightforward.

The New Testament writers were Jewish - with the possible exception of Luke, writin for mainly Jewish Christians. Jewish opposition to Jesus was conflict between Jews.

Pilate ordered Jesus’ execution because the high priest recommended it. Jesus was being called king of the Jews, an intolerable offense. Pilate understood Jesus to be a threat to the Jews not to Rome, and therefore made no effort to arrest and execute Jesus’ followers.

The gospels show Jesus to have been condemned by a Jewish mob, against Pilate’s better judgment. The gospels report that Pilate was worried, that his wife told him to take no action, that he consulted the Jewish mob and pleaded on Jesus’ behalf, and finally, that he caved in to public pressure and ordered Jesus’ execution.

Ultimately it’s Pilate who did so. (read the Nicene Creed)

 

[colliric]

Ultimately it’s Pilate who did so. (read the Nicene Creed)

No, The creed says he “was crucified under Pontius Pilate” but Pilate was not the main guilty party of the affair, Jesus himself says so. He says “it is the person who delivered me to you who has the greater sin.”

Pilate allowed the Jewish people to pass their own Judgment. He was therefore committing a sin, but it was the sins of the Jewish Leaders which was far greater than the sin of Pilate, as they delivered Jesus to be killed and given the chance to Judge, they choose to condemned him. In fact I wonder if christ was understanding of Pilate’s attempts to allow the Jewish people themselfs to make the decision.

He shouldn’t have even been delivered to Pilate.

 

[Gwythr]

A friend who is Jewish told me once that Jesus couldn’t have been the Savior because he said the second coming was supposed to come 1000 years after the Savior came. Is this an actual Jewish belief? I didn’t know what to say to him…

 

[artist3189]

When i came upon the verse listed as a reference it had nothing to do with what it was refering to. Aditionally in the introductory paragrah to the Exciasticus (Sp?) the author firmly states that the Jews purposely kept this book out of the cannonical order. but why would a jew use it for a reference then?

It is very common for theologians to ‘site’ passages or information from older text, regardless of whether the whole entire work itself would be considered ‘canonical’. Just because a book or work isn’t in the Jewish Canon doesn’t render it invaluable. It is still a work of antiquity and shows historical and theological evidence from earlier times. My guess is the reference had more to do than you think, it just may not be obvious to you, yet, since your just getting into this work. And it’s interesting that the Jews would keep it out of the Canon and the Catholic Church includes it. I’m not really up on this history as to how and why.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

When i have the material ill post it to provide context

 

[Valke2]

“The Jews once held a special place in God’s heart but they are now an accursed people and will remain so until the end of time and no amount of wishy-washy watered down “feel good” theology will alter that fact. This is the awful truth. They invoked a dreadful curse upon their own heads in saying: “His blood be on us and our children”. Jews still inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers.”

Someone was saying that the definition of anti-semitism is tricky. The above quote is one aspect of it.

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps that means Jews should not be represented as rejected by God or accursed as if Jews cannot be saved for Christ’s Glory. In which case I agree wholeheartedly.

No, I mean accursed as in a people uniquely cursed by God Himself. Surely the poor wretched plight of the Jewish people themselves in the last 2000 years, not to mention the holocaust or the current threat of a second shoah proves that point - does it not?

thank you for the link to CAI. It is an interesting site filled with many thought provoking articles. Certainly worth careful consideration. I hope every Catholic will avail themselves, which they will now you have thoughtfully provided the link

Shalom and have a nice day.

TO think that God used Hitler, the Crusades etc. as a method of righteous punishment is a mindset that has no place in my worldview.

 

[Valke2]

No, The creed says he “was crucified under Pontius Pilate” but Pilate was not the main guilty party of the affair, Jesus himself says so. He says “it is the person who delivered me to you who has the greater sin.”

Wouldn’t that be a reference to Judas, as opposed to the Jewish people?

 

[Valke2]

CC 597

. . . Neither all Jews indiscriminately at that time, nor Jews today, can be charged with the crimes committed during his Passion. . . The Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from holy Scripture.

 

[colliric]

Wouldn’t that be a reference to Judas, as opposed to the Jewish people?

Well yes and not entirely.

Judas was repentant and sadly suicidal in the end. Unlike the Jewish leaders he realized the error of his ways and tried to have them release Jesus. It was too late for him, he only had the one chance, unlike the Jewish leaders. His conscience, and Satan, got to him.

 

[ricmat]

What a coincidence, or is it? A result of Trad Catholic’s posts?

I just got this newsletter today in my email.

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_070206.asp

 

[Evan]

It’s an interesting question, who is the people “let the guilt be on us and on our children”. Who among the first christians were not Jews? The first 5000 baptized on penticost were jews, the apostles.

I know my grandfather (6 generations ago) was a Jew. So I guess the guilt is on me and my children too.

Who among us does not have a jew in our ancestry of the last 60 generations (ie 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible people… got to be some intermarriage) figuring 20 centuries and 3 generations / century.

Perhaps all europeans and africans. Most asians. Very few Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. (although I have Native American blood and my daughtor has Pacific Islander)

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

TO think that God used Hitler, the Crusades etc. as a method of righteous punishment is a mindset that has no place in my worldview.

Your worldview is of no importance. Can you deny it - that is the point. You cannot escape the consequence of history.

You should know better than to state that “God used Hitler, the Crusades etc. as a method of righteous punishment”. God does not work that way as you well know. God does not punish the innocent. It is not a righteous punishment, it is a suffering from something that happened 2000 yeas ago.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chicks under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[colliric]

It’s an interesting question, who is the people “let the guilt be on us and on our children”. Who among the first christians were not Jews? The first 5000 baptized on penticost were jews, the apostles.

I know my grandfather (6 generations ago) was a Jew. So I guess the guilt is on me and my children too.

Who among us does not have a jew in our ancestry of the last 60 generations (ie 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible people… got to be some intermarriage) figuring 20 centuries and 3 generations / century.

Perhaps all europeans and africans. Most asians. Very few Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. (although I have Native American blood and my daughtor has Pacific Islander)

I take the statement to mean it’s talking about the Jewish leaders and their direct descendants, not the entire Jewish populace.

 

[Evan]

I take the statement to mean it’s talking about the Jewish leaders and their direct descendants, not the entire Jewish populace.

That, of course, could be you or me. Why do you say Jewish leaders. They were put, by God, in a position to lead the Jewish people. They speak for all Judaism, even those who were converted on pentecost. Even those who would deny it on Good Friday. They are all the Chosen People, not just the leaders.

I accept the guilt of the blood of Christ, for I am guilty through each sin I commit.

When a soldier in WWII fought to free the world from Nazi and Japanese domination, the guilt and glory of that action was associated with all americans and australians who lived at that time because we went to the aid of those who could not help themselves. We live as a community and we can disagree with the actions of our leaders, but they are our leaders and all they do reflects on all the citizens. Any action carried out in their name (by an individual soldier) would also reflect on the leader and therefore on each citizen.

 

[artist3189]

I know my grandfather (6 generations ago) was a Jew. So I guess the guilt is on me and my children too.

Who among us does not have a jew in our ancestry of the last 60 generations (ie 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible people… got to be some intermarriage) figuring 20 centuries and 3 generations / century.

Perhaps all europeans and africans. Most asians. Very few Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. (although I have Native American blood and my daughtor has Pacific Islander)

I highly doubt this, highly. The Jewish or Semitic population has always been quite small and to attest ancestry to everyone through them is way off. They have traditionally been a homogeneous ‘people’, who shunned relations with non-Jews. Intermingling surely occurred in their Exiles, especially in Babylon, but, mankind was already spread throughout the known world at those times and simply having SOME Semitic ancestry does not give you JEWISH heritage, they are NOT the only Semitic group in the middle east.