Why don't people sing?

[pigman]

I do sing, but have caused people in front of me to turn and look, presumably because they thought I was choking to death.

 

[daeve]

Sing out anyway, you guys. Let your hearts sing, and the music will be beautiful if not the actual sound.

 

[crenfro]

…because they think the choir is there to entertain them?

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

This string of responses is truly amazing!

Go to a celebration of real importance to you:
A wedding feast
A 50th weddeing anniversary
An important achievement.

Everyone is having a good time.
Everyone is HAVING FUN!!!
There is an (dare I say it) emotional connection of warmth and love

An important person to this event calls everyone to attention. Raise your glasses, drink a toast! Let’s sing “Ole Lang zine” (sp?). Or perhaps the bride and groom dance to their favorite love song.

Now let’s interpret some of these responses below:
I won’t sing to such a ****** band;
I’ll raise my glass but I won’t be caught saying, “cheers”
I don’t think “cheers” was a word used in the ancient days by holy people.

Let’s get real people! This mass is the greatest celebration we will ever attend. Let’s put our pettiness aside; let’s not worry too much -or at least at this feast- about the lyrics; Let’s stop looking at the band, the celebrant, or even ourselves.

What happens if you have the opportunity to go to the final banquet at the end times and find that the tune or words sound bitter to you? Will you fade away back into purgatory?

How about lifting your eyes WITH LOVING PASSION to our Lord!
How about singing (at least the responses, the Gloria, and any other song that remotely sounds familiar JUST OUT OF LOVE of our GOD!

This “culture” of not singing that was mentioned is not common to every Catholic church. It is not common to every non denominational church. Many people in many churches today honor the Host of the banquet in spirit and truth.

Does anyone here think that the Spirit of God so bland, so narrow as to encourage a single person not to sing?

Please, SING!

Sorry that I sometimes feel embarrassed to be singing at church when so many around me are not. It is a form of selfish pride. But when I see the Lord’s face in Church, I can’t help it. I MUST sing in worship and prayer.

Always rejoicing in the Lord,
Bob

The problem with your analogy is that there is a fundamental, radical, and cosmic difference between a wedding (or any secular function) and the Liturgy.

 

[Sarabande]

…because they think the choir is there to entertain them?

I don’t think that is always the case. I never think the choir is there to entertain me. It is there to provide spiritual nourishment and to transcend the soul to the Divine. At least that is the way I and many others I know think of the choir and choral music. There are probably people who think of it as entertainment, but then that means they have a misunderstanding of what our choral music tradition is all about. And that probably stems from today’s culture of many of our Catholic liturgical and sacred music being performed in secular venues. If it is constantly done during mass, such as where I attend mass, people do not think of it as entertainment anymore and see/hear it for what it is for.

 

[Sarabande]

In this case I defer to superior wisdom and experience :tiphat: - obviously this old dog still has a few things to learn

Believe me… there are still many things that I have to learn in other aspects of wisdom and life.

God bless!!! AND Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[m134e5]

The tunes are too high.

I’ve run into songs that are too low as well. Many composers do not understand that the more common male voice (Baritone) cannot sing as high as the more common female voice (Soprano). Songs that are sung in unison should stay within one octave, and shouldn’t go lower than the B-flat two spaces below the staff, or higher than the D on the fourth line of the staff. I’ve seen hymns that expect everyone to sing a high F- that’s not going to happen in a bass or alto, it might not happen in an untrained baritone or tenor either- I’m sure many people have heard cantors singing higher than they know how to sing- when they push their chest register way beyond where it should go, or let their larynx go up so high it practically comes out their nose (which is about the only place it sounds like a tone is coming out of)- if you haven’t heard either of these things, be grateful- they sound really really bad!

Cat:

Because they can’t read music, and they’re poor at singing by ear.

Yes…music isn’t taught well enough in school anymore.

Cat:

Because if they can read music, the music often isn’t supplied for them (just the words are printed), and parts are virtually never supplied for those of us who read a part other than the melody.

That would help- an untrained Bass often can’t sing the same notes at all as an untrained Soprano.

Cat:

Because the instrumentalist, especially an organist, will not play a clear melody line, but instead, embellishes the accompaniment making it difficult for those who sing by ear to pick out the melody.

Yes, that is what organ preludes are for.

Cat:

Because most of the cantors are not music conductors, and the congregation is uncertain of entrances, cut-offs, etc.

All they have to do is breathe and lift their bodies slightly when they do it- it doesn’t take much to learn how to do it, if you should be cantoring in the first place.

Cat:

Because often the instruments, especially the organ, do not accompany the congregation, but lead it, causing the people to get lost.

In big churches, the organist has to lead- the acoustics are such that if they try to follow the congregation, they will get messed up- sound is delayed in those big, echoey churches.

Because they haven’t been taught how to sing in a head voice which would enable them to reach those “high” notes. (BTW, a D an octave + 1 above Middle C is NOT a high note.)

for a low Bass or an Alto (not a Mezzo-Soprano…a true alto- which is very rare), it is about their highest note- if it isn’t past their highest note. Baritones and Mezzo-Sopranos go into their head voice about there- they could run into some difficulty. Tenors and sopranos don’t for another few notes- it may be in their mixed register, so it may not sound really good up there- but it should come out.

Cat:

Because the songs and hymns are played at an improper tempo (either too fast, or more often, waaaaay to slow) that does not allow breathing in the appropriate place in the music, resulting in a “breathless” or “airless” sound that is very weak and volumeless.

Yeah, I’ve seen that problem a lot too. Sometimes it’s just a matter of the organist needing to get some energy and not sit there at the organ lifelessly.

Because in our current culture, corporate singing is simply not done in any circles nowadays other than “church” and it feels uncomfortable for us. Instead, in our culture, even in “Christian” culture, singing is done by professionals, and the rest of us attend “concerts” or buy CDS, and merely listen to others sing.

That’s true. The reasons I don’t always sing sort of fit in this category. I’m a professionally trained singer. I’m likely to get compliments (which Mass is not the place for) if I sing at Mass and I’m near anybody.

 

[m134e5]

Cat:

Because they have received the teaching that singing is to be contemplative, not jubilant, and that to “sing out” is to call attention to themselves rather than Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

It shouldn’t be so loud that it is piercing- and if you’re bad at staying on tune you should sing quietly so you don’t throw everyone else off. (Some people I’ve heard would sing beautifully if composers would write music using every note except for the correct ones- they seem to sing everything but what’s written)

Cat:

Because they have received the teaching that “reverent” means “soft.”

Probably

Cat:

Because they are old and do not have the strength of voice anymore.

Maybe.

Cat:

Because they are concentrating on praying or other devotion to Our Lord during the hymns, instead of being “in the moment” and devoting their time exclusively to the singing of the hymn.

That sounds likely for some people. The Mass isn’t just about the individual and God though. We come together as a community for a reason. If God wanted it to be mostly a solitary act, he would have ordained that everyone be priests, and that we always celebrate the Eucharist privately.

Cat:

Because they are taking care of babies and young children and can’t hold the hymnal, too.

That is understandable.

Cat:

Because they are babies and young children and don’t read yet.

Cat:

Because they don’t understand the words to the older hymns and have difficult time fitting them into the melody (or they are snickering about “ethereal lays”).

I don’t know many older hymns with complicated words, but then again vocabulary and music are two of my strongest areas.

Cat:

Because they have condemned the modern hymns as heretical, and are demonstrating their objection by refusing to sing in protest.

I refuse to sing certain songs for that reason (and I’m not one to insist on being different to make a statement). If the organist is stuck in a rut and I’ve heard a certain song more than twice in one month, I might not sing if I’m grouchy- but I’m pretty tolerant.

Cat:

Because they are not actually participating in any of the Mass, but are just fulfilling their obligation to prevent themselves from going to hell. Hymns and spiritual songs are so far-removed from their “real life” that they simply don’t even bother. (But at least they are at Mass and the Holy Spirit can give them some graces.)

Unfortunately, I suspect this one is all too common.
Wolsely:

Most of this stuff was composed by people who considered themselves to be professional musicians, and if you are a professional musician, I have been told, it’s great fun to play.

If you like that kind of music. Unfortunately some churches don’t have professional musicians and many of these songs are too hard for amateurs to play well.

It goes too high,

Or too low

or too fast

or too slow

tcraig:

One other problem I’ve noticed at all my OCP-scripted NO parishes is that there are so many new songs. It seems like we never can have any old favorites on a regular basis.

Either no old favorites- or just one old favorite. I love Marian hymns- I love Immaculate Mary- I also love at least 30 others that it would be nice to sing once in awhile. The same goes for the Eucharistic Hymns and the other types of hymns.

Cat:

I consider the range from A-B-middle C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D a do-able range for almost anyone if they sing in a head voice. The E above that D is a little more difficult, but if it doesn’t have to be sustained, I think it’s doable.

The low A is pretty low for me, and if I’m the cantor, it’s going up a whole step or it won’t be pretty. High notes are fine…as long as they stay below the G above the treble clef (and preferably below that, or else you’ll have this going on (don’t play that video very loud- especially if you are near glass!)

 

[THutch04]

I’m a contralto who cantors, and wow, some of those songs I really have to just pray that the upper range won’t sound absolutely horrible. The truth is though, I grew up with Anglican and Episcopalian hymnals, and the key in those hymnals are actually higher. The hymns often had an E above middle C, and having an F above middle C wasn’t unheard of. I’m so happy that in general, I usually only have to go up to a D. For me, that’s really the highest note I want to sing, although just because sometimes I have no choice, I’ll go up to an E. The one time I asked for a song to be transposed down because it didn’t have any harmonies, I was told no, because the soprano complained that it would make it too low. I really wish I would feel confident enough to just take everything down an octave, because then I would be fine, but in general people don’t like to listen to females singing that low. lol oh how I’d love to be a soprano…

I think the real problem with the newer songs is that they have such jumps from the low range to the higher range. I heard that the average untrained voice has about 12 notes. When the entire song uses that full range, that’s really difficult. I know people who are trained who don’t want to use the extreme ends of their voices. Most untrained singers would have problems with using their entire range (or at the very least would probably lack the confidence to try).

Personally, I love it when there is a lot of congregational singing, even if the person next to me is singing off key. The music is about worshiping God, and I love it when people praise God in this way, even if they aren’t necessarily the best singers (and in general, people know if they’re good singers or not). Oh yes, and I think that if chant is used you don’t notice if one person is off key. I don’t know why, but I’ve noticed that people who wouldn’t classify themselves as good singers really don’t sound that bad when the music that’s used is chant rather than hymns.

 

[Sarabande]

exercises.
When I cantor, I sing the same hymns and in the exact same keys as the other cantor who is a regular soprano. What I find interesting is that parishioners have approached me and commented how they love that I sing these hymns in a “lower key” because it is easier for them to sing. I have to explain to them that I actually don’t and many are surprised when they hear this. I believe that the other cantor (who is a decent and able singer - she has a lovely voice) sounds like she is singing it really high because she sometimes sings more in her head and does not have it equally balanced to obtain depth, warmth and richness in the voice. She’s had some training, but not a lot. The warmth and depth in the voice does makes a big difference to an untrained person’s ears as what they think would be easier to sing.

I was with my voice teacher yesterday and related to her my experience that I quoted above from a previous post. I wanted to see what her thoughts were as to why these congregants would think that I sang in a lower key even though I did not. She believed the same as I did. It was because when I or other singers (whether soprano, mezzo, tenor, etc.) are “settled” into our bodies and are balanced, we also “settle” the other congregants’ bodies. It’s almost a psychological trick in a way. When someone sings with no depth, it sounds like it’s in the stratosphere (even though it isn’t especially with hymns). That unsettles a person and makes them feel like they have to reach for the notes - thus thinking it’s too high.

 

[Sarabande]

I’m a contralto who cantors, and wow, some of those songs I really have to just pray that the upper range won’t sound absolutely horrible.

You have a truly unique gift! Contraltos are few and far between. I love Kathleen Ferrier’s voice. It took a little getting used to, but after listening to her voice a few times, it is a beautiful quality and not many women have that kind of voice range.

I think the real problem with the newer songs is that they have such jumps from the low range to the higher range. I heard that the average untrained voice has about 12 notes. When the entire song uses that full range, that’s really difficult. I know people who are trained who don’t want to use the extreme ends of their voices. Most untrained singers would have problems with using their entire range (or at the very least would probably lack the confidence to try).

I agree with this. Many of the newer hymns are written with too many jumps instead of easier transitions from lower to higher notes. Plus, many newer hymns don’t have harmonizations for other voices to sing in the congregations - if our congregations were to begin to do harmonizing.

I believe you are right about the average range of an untrained voice. My range when I first started voice lessons was a little more than 12 notes - Low A to high G. It was then extended to low F/E to high E above high C (so about three octaves, give or take), although I’m very rarely required to perform music that is that low or that high in my repertoire. Most of the older, more traditional hymns and some newer hymns are written within the middle range of the voice and usually don’t require the use of an entire range.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I was with my voice teacher yesterday and related to her my experience that I quoted above from a previous post. I wanted to see what her thoughts were as to why these congregants would think that I sang in a lower key even though I did not. She believed the same as I did. It was because when I or other singers (whether soprano, mezzo, tenor, etc.) are “settled” into our bodies and are balanced, we also “settle” the other congregants’ bodies. It’s almost a psychological trick in a way. When someone sings with no depth, it sounds like it’s in the stratosphere (even though it isn’t especially with hymns). That unsettles a person and makes them feel like they have to reach for the notes - thus thinking it’s too high.

It is amazing how much of singing is psychology.

 

[MustangBoop]

IMHO, I think hyms are very difficult to sing (to high), some people don’t like their singing voices and/or by the time I find the song in the hymnal, the song is over.

In our church, there is a saying, “If you can’t sing, sing louder God loves your voice.” Also, we are priviledged to have a system where the words are projected on the walls. The Mass I go to, was started for the teens in the parish … but it has turned out to be the most popular of the 7 Masses celebrated. We sing more contemporary songs. I remember when my daughter was in Catholic school back in NY, my daughter is 43, they were just starting with ‘folk masses’ I loved them.

Singing praise songs is my all time favorite way to praise the Lord.

 

[benedictgal]

IMHO, I think hyms are very difficult to sing (to high), some people don’t like their singing voices and/or by the time I find the song in the hymnal, the song is over.

In our church, there is a saying, “If you can’t sing, sing louder God loves your voice.” Also, we are priviledged to have a system where the words are projected on the walls. The Mass I go to, was started for the teens in the parish … but it has turned out to be the most popular of the 7 Masses celebrated. We sing more contemporary songs. I remember when my daughter was in Catholic school back in NY, my daughter is 43, they were just starting with ‘folk masses’ I loved them.

Singing praise songs is my all time favorite way to praise the Lord.

While your enthusiam is certainly laudable, there are some concerns to singing praise music. A lot of it is not allowed by the Church because there are some doctrinal and liturgical issues regarding this type of music. When my parish uses these hymns, I elect not to sing because these songs are not appropriate for the Mass. Neither is folk music. As Pope Benedict says in Sacramentum Caritatis, one song is not as good as another.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

In my case, I cannot sing many of the tunes either because I do not know the bass/baritone melody for the song or it does not have one. Most songs these days are sung in a range that is too high for me.

 

[jmcrae]

I like to sing, and I can even read the melody line in the music, but I find it hard to follow along with a lot of modern music; the words just don’t seem to fit the notes very well. It’s like they wrote the words and the music separately, and then just bunged them together as best they could, instead of writing the music to fit the words, or else writing the words to fit the music, and in neither case do they seem to be following any kind of standards with regard to the poetic elements of the song; the lines sometimes seem to be of different lengths, completely at random - and I don’t require that the lines must rhyme, but they should at least have something in common with each other, aesthetically.

 

[MustangBoop]

When Catholics don’t sing, its because the music director, isn’t doing a good job.

Jim

You all should come to the Sunday, 5:30p Mass at my parrish. The place rocks not disrespectfully but still rocks. When there is a new song, they teach it to us before the Mass starts. We have the same songs, but a different tempo and loudness for each Mass so the parishinors have a choice. Ex: the 5:30, Saturday Mass the music is played quieter (is that a word?) So we have from quiet to rocking and everything in between for everyone’s taste. And most importantly, the Holy Spirit is very present. You can feel the Spirit moving.

 

[benedictgal]

I like to sing, and I can even read the melody line in the music, but I find it hard to follow along with a lot of modern music; the words just don’t seem to fit the notes very well. It’s like they wrote the words and the music separately, and then just bunged them together as best they could, instead of writing the music to fit the words, or else writing the words to fit the music, and in neither case do they seem to be following any kind of standards with regard to the poetic elements of the song; the lines sometimes seem to be of different lengths, completely at random - and I don’t require that the lines must rhyme, but they should at least have something in common with each other, aesthetically.

Furthermore, they also need to be doctrinally and liturgically in line with the Church. That is a key element in liturgical music.

 

[jmcrae]

Furthermore, they also need to be doctrinally and liturgically in line with the Church. That is a key element in liturgical music.

That goes without saying, naturally.

 

[daeve]

I like to sing, and I can even read the melody line in the music, but I find it hard to follow along with a lot of modern music; the words just don’t seem to fit the notes very well. It’s like they wrote the words and the music separately, and then just bunged them together as best they could, instead of writing the music to fit the words, or else writing the words to fit the music, and in neither case do they seem to be following any kind of standards with regard to the poetic elements of the song; the lines sometimes seem to be of different lengths, completely at random - and I don’t require that the lines must rhyme, but they should at least have something in common with each other, aesthetically.

I agree with you about words not fitting the melody sometimes. There are a couple pieces that I KNOW I’ll goof up unless I practiced that morning. Of course, I can’t think of one.

Another thing is, that unless one really knows the melody, after the first verse, the notes are too far from the words. I can read music (well, the melody line at least) but my eyes just don’t want to jump back and forth from the notes to the 4th verse.