Why don't Protestants asks the saints for intercession?

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Hi Jon,

Catholics may not deny any dogma such as the intercession of the Saints. That doesn’t mean they are required to ask Saints for intercession.
Exactly, I know many Catholic’s who don’t and who do.

Of course St Michael and the Blessed Mother among others are used for intercession during exorcisms constantly.

Personally I believe this happens depending on where you are on the path of faith. People are drawn to the Lord at different rates in time, and different ways. Some never come. I’ve found those who earnestly seek the path to Christ and choose to deal with war of Good and evil daily. They are a bit quicker to come to the Saints for help.

I’ve listened to the Jesuits talk on this and their belief is, if you just kinda believe, they won’t interceed. If you expect 20% help thats what they give you. If you expect and seek 100% help thats what you receive. It gets back to the individual.

Those who chose a vocation in the church are fast to reach this point. They are confronting the issues of good and evil very early on.
 
My main problem with praying to the saints is that so many of those saints have such wild folklore attached to them. Sorry, but that’s what I have concluded over the years. Various bits of mythology, exaggeration, hyperbole, even paganism has succeeded in making veneration of the saints seem like idolatry to many.
Code:
 It is one thing to honor saintly people, e. g., Mother Theresa, but such fantasies about many of them. Historians suggest that many of them were even pagan heroes who were 'baptized' into the church when the particular area became Christian, certainly in parts of Latin America, but before that in ancient and medieval Europe. Some who are seen as saints in Catholicism are regarded as enemies of justice outside the church. Etc. 

 But those who want to pray to saints, fine. Free country. I believe in a big-tent Christianity where we are allowed a broad area of flexibility, as long as we seek to follow the teachings and example of Christ as much as we possibly can. When the lawyer asked Jesus how could he have eternal life, he did not respond by citing doctrines or church affiliation or praying to saints. He told the parable of the Good Samaritan. Alas, the Samaritans were viewed as heretics and far worse by the religious establishment of that era. This should tell us something.
 
GaryTaylor;7689863:
You might find St Padre Pios’s Miracles are well know and mutiple. The healings he performed through Prayer intercession which are confirmed, are what made him a Saint. One was a direct intercession as a favor asked by John Paul II while he was Arch Bishop. But why should we believe him, right?
So, Padre Pio’s performing of healings through prayer intercession are what saved him. So, if we all figure out this technique, we too can be saved by healing others? Does it matter what we believe?
Job in scripture is the example of prayer intercession.
Job1
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

Job was alive when he offered these intercessory prayers.
Then theres’s 2000 years of confirmed history. All of it is fake is what your saying? St. Teresa of Avila? all documented and confirmed. St John of the Cross? all documented and confirmed. The Sun Dancing at Fatima and the message of Prayer intercession? Fake too?
The people you mention here were all alive when they prayed. As for Fatima, i’m sure it was not a fake. The people saw something, but was it from God? Doubtful!!
Yes the effort it takes in reading and comprehension is vast. It won’t happen on fast google sights or TV. But the Truth is out here. You just need to seek it in an honest effort to find it.
So, you are saying that Roy5’s reading comprehension is not as vast as yours because he has not been honest in seeking the truth?
When your of this world I guess its almost impossible to comprehend Gods.
Are you saying that Roy 5 is of the world and you are of God?
And there lies the problem with many denominations. The infusion of the modern world with Christianity which would like the view the Catholic Church as outdated.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John
Its like looking the Sun, it blinds and all then is Black. But the Sun is still there.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

This passage is talking about Jesus not the CC. When you look at Jesus you will never be blinded. Even if you cannot see.
 
Do you have link for the Doctrine of your Church in what you actually do believe?
As regard to the topic, I did not find anything. We have some statements that might be taken at odds with some things catholics do or have believed, but we aren’t focussed on not being catholic hence we don’t need an explanation why we don’t agree to every catholic doctrine including the one of this topic. As regards to anything else, I would say that’s a red herring. But I don’t mind you knowing that I’m a Free Methodist and you can find our website here:

www.freemethodist.org

it’s not like I am bound to agree with absolutely everything asserted there (though I don’t know of anything I do disagree with). I do my best to make sense of these things and it isn’t like I’m asserting my personal perspective in its own right as I am dependent on the church and scripture (as in the one not defined by an organization) for what I understand.
 
So, Padre Pio’s performing of healings through prayer intercession are what saved him. So, if we all figure out this technique, we too can be saved by healing others? Does it matter what we believe?

The technique, Richard, is being holy, purge your sins through regular confession, receive Christ’s Body, blood, soul and divinity, offer and unite one’s sufferings with Christ on Calvary…practice humility, love, charity, do a lot of good works…and this will allow you to grow in piety, and your state of grace will progress to a unitive state…then the Lord will make you suffer more by giving you the wounds of Christ on your body…the Stigmata…just like padre pio and several other stigmatics. And some of them have incorruptible bodies, their bodies have not decayed…like Bernadette of Lourdes, Teresa of Avila…

You does it matter what you believe? Yes it does matter. What do you think these Saints believed? Has anybody in your denomination received the wounds of Christ on their body?
Job1
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
 
So, Padre Pio’s performing of healings through prayer intercession are what saved him. So, if we all figure out this technique, we too can be saved by healing others? Does it matter what we believe?
No, he was speaking of a canonized capital “S” Saint.

Through much of history, Sainthood came through acclamation. Much like St Paul, St Peter, St James, St Polycarp, St Ignatius, . . . . You get the picture.
 
I think its alot simpler than people want to make it. For many Protestants, its that the scriptures have no explicit example of such intercessions. You don’t hear Paul urging the churches to seek the saints intercessions.

The saints in heaven are alive, but they are dead to us. That is why they are referred to as the “dead in Christ” Contacting the dead is forbidden and is necromancy, they have told me.
 
=SteveVH;7689215]I wish all posters here were as honest and well spoken as you, Jon
Thank you for your kind words.
I have a question. Do Lutherans believe in the “Communion of Saints”?
If so, what does “communion” mean to you and would it not follow that if this doctrine is true that we would be able communicate, through “prayer”, with the Body of Christ in heaven, the Church Triumphant? That would include interceding for us just as we intercede for each other here on earth, would it not.
Yes we do beleive in the Communion of Saints. That communion would be our membership in the body of Christ as Baptized believers. The Confessions speak of the Church as the community of believers, and that community transcends time. Lutherans often speak of those who have died as being tranferred to the Church Triumphant.

As far as interceding for us, yes we believe that the saints in Heaven pray for (intercede) us ever so much. This is a scriptural belief which Lutherans and Catholics share. The question has been for Lutherans since the Reformation what faith can we put in specific requests to specific saints? How can we know they can hear us? And we respond that there is no command, example, or promise in scripture regarding it, and I would add at least not explicitly.
I personally add “not explicitly” because I see a verse like Luke 15:7 as implicit evidence that the saints in Heaven may have knowledge of the events on Earth, for Christ says as conclusion to His parable: “Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”

So, I think we agree that the saints intercede for us, with or without our requests (prayers) that they do so.

Jon
 
And that has to do with semantics. Catholics view “pray” in a more historic sense, where its meaning is not only worship (latria). Even today one will here the phrase, “pray tell”, etc. Pray can mean “request”, or “ask fervently”.

For Lutherans, as has been mentioned earlier, the issue is not whether or not the saints in Heaven pray for the Church Militant. They do. The issue may not even be whether or not they hear our requests for intercession with Christ. The issue is, is there a command, an example, or a promise regarding invocation of the saints. As there isn’t, we believe that the consciense of the believer should not be bound to it.
OTOH, I see no condemnation in scripture of it, either.

Jon
I don’t think that’s semantics. Whether or not their views on prayer are right or wrong, it guides their worship. If someone views praying to a saint as wrong, for them it is wrong, and it’s sin if they practice it believing it to be idoltry whether it actually is or not. Remember, sin and worship start in the heart. As for not being conscience bound, as far as I know, catholics arn’t bound to it either. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but intercession of a saint is not an artical of faith is it?
 
No, he was speaking of a canonized capital “S” Saint.

Through much of history, Sainthood came through acclamation. Much like St Paul, St Peter, St James, St Polycarp, St Ignatius, . . . . You get the picture.
No, I’m afraid I don’t. What do you mean by “Sainthood came through acclamation”
 
My main problem with praying to the saints is that so many of those saints have such wild folklore attached to them. Sorry, but that’s what I have concluded over the years. Various bits of mythology, exaggeration, hyperbole, even paganism has succeeded in making veneration of the saints seem like idolatry to many.
Code:
 It is one thing to honor saintly people, e. g., Mother Theresa, but such fantasies about many of them. Historians suggest that many of them were even pagan heroes who were 'baptized' into the church when the particular area became Christian, certainly in parts of Latin America, but before that in ancient and medieval Europe. Some who are seen as saints in Catholicism are regarded as enemies of justice outside the church. Etc. 

 But those who want to pray to saints, fine. Free country. I believe in a big-tent Christianity where we are allowed a broad area of flexibility, as long as we seek to follow the teachings and example of Christ as much as we possibly can. When the lawyer asked Jesus how could he have eternal life, he did not respond by citing doctrines or church affiliation or praying to saints. He told the parable of the Good Samaritan. Alas, the Samaritans were viewed as heretics and far worse by the religious establishment of that era. This should tell us something.
One thing is for sure, through scripture its very apparent God continues to take Souls He actually choose’s and have chosen Him, though serious. serious trails. From David, Job, Jeramiah, Isaiah, Jonah, Paul, Peter, John, etc. Even Christ on the cross had his moment of fustration.

Its not hard to reach a point where one just doesn’t know truth, because your blinded and brought to “Blind Faith” constantly by the purification process of the Soul. And if the Bible indicate’s one Truth throughout, this is it.

So church doctrines really have no bearing but in the aspect they record History accurately. They show error in time periods. Should one chose to believe it of not? Thats another issue. Is everything 100% accurate? Well, we are dealing with man, but you can take it to the bank its close, and in the above 90% range. You dealing with the elect who are by large Gods soldiers.

The Saints are also recorded History. No different than Biblical times, God just choose’s those who will speak for Him. And they do. And they still do. There has never been a period in recorded History when He hasn’t sent someone to speak for Him.

There are many unknown Truths in this world my friend. Its better to say “I’m not sure” than to say “I don’t believe” when in fact you really don’t know!

Is the Catholic Church a True path to God? Most definate. Are there others? Are you capable of finding them on your own is really the question? It will take a very long walk down the path till your postive your on the right path. In which case, if you are wrong, then the walk back is an equal distance. 🤷

While I understand your main problem. My main problem are those who chose to place to fault a proven path to God. Its a mistake to lead anyone away from a proven path IMHO.👍

Its a mighty large leap to say there is flaw in certain Saints, when again, you really don’t know. So it just gets down to the point than unless you can actually prove there’s a fault? Its just throwing dirt a Soul who may very well be Gods Chosen? Not smart IMHO.

I don’t even know all the Catholic Saints nor will I in this physical world. But I don’t make any claim to pretend to know if they were indeed of God. When I read something one or two said about another which seems skeptical? I just give it the benifit of the doubt and leave it alone. I wasn’t there. And I’m pretty sure you weren’t either.
 
It seems to me a natural thing to ask the Saints in heaven to pray for me just as I ask people here on earth to pray for me. Just because the Saints are no longer here on earth doesn’t seem to be a reason not to ask them for help. Look at Revelations 5:8:

This seems to me to obviously be a reference to the saints in heaven praying for us.
The reason are many. The main one is the highest form of prayer and worship we have is the Eucharist. The highest form they have is prayer and worship music, Therefore they equate anything called “prayer” as worship and thus equate prayer to saints with worship which equals idolatry.

Most Protestants would equate prayer to saints as a distinctly Catholic practice (since they really have no awareness of Orthodoxy). This is one of the reasons you find such little reference to intercession of saints in CCD and RCIA classes which, I think, are entirely minimalist.
 
Because the folks who loved these saints said they were Saints after their death was reason enough.

There has not always been a formal canonization process.
These answers are confusing me more. Are you saying that people are made Saints (capital “S” whatever that means) after they die by people that have not died and are not Saints? Is this the only way a Catholic believes that one becomes a Saint? I mean do you believe that we get to heaven by someone saying we are Saints and what would a saint be with a small “s”?
 
Hebrews Chaptr 12:22 But what you have come to is Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem where the millions of angels have gathered for the festival,
23 with the whole Church of first-born sons, enrolled as citizens of heaven. You have come to God himself, the supreme Judge, and to the spirits of the upright who have been made perfect; 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to purifying blood which pleads more insistently than Abel’s.

Jesus is pleased to employ the saints and angels.

peace
 
Protestants must not believe in heaven…they say they do, but then when people die the Protestants seem to think that they automatically forget about their loved ones on earth and go live in a little self-absorbed cloud of angels. What kind of a heaven full of love and charity is that?

They could pray for us when they were on earth, but when they finally get to the seat of all power and glory, they just kind of fizzle out…loose all sense of charity for humanity…figure their time is done getting stuck handling all those prayer requests and go play a harp or take in some cloud bowling…

Maybe they are too busy having great banquets to think about us mere mortals :hmmm:

Heaven forbid that some Catholic should come along and think that a human soul would have more charity when it reaches the source of all charity and actually take an interest in praying for those that were left behind.

Protestant Heaven must be a pretty self-centered place.😊
As they say in some neighborhoods…“right on!”…😉
 
These answers are confusing me more. Are you saying that people are made Saints (capital “S” whatever that means) after they die by people that have not died and are not Saints? Is this the only way a Catholic believes that one becomes a Saint? I mean do you believe that we get to heaven by someone saying we are Saints and what would a saint be with a small “s”?
Of course not.
 
Hebrews Chaptr 12:22 But what you have come to is Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem where the millions of angels have gathered for the festival,
23 with the whole Church of first-born sons, enrolled as citizens of heaven. You have come to God himself, the supreme Judge, and to the spirits of the upright who have been made perfect; 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to purifying blood which pleads more insistently than Abel’s.

Jesus is pleased to employ the saints and angels.

peace
No one denies the dead in Christ are part of the body…It is the contacting them to with requests. Jesus says we are to cast our cares on Him…Sure angels rejoice when a sinner repents, doesn’t mean we are to contacting them…God has charge over them…Why do you think they was a big deal about the veil being torn, it was to give access to the Holy of Holies…How do we send prayer from this realm to the next, Jesus showed us how. Then some say we are just asking them to pray for us, but you have to “send” that request out of this realm.Who is omniscient/omnipresent to receive the requests all the time all over the world. Do those in heave need to pray…Can’t they just go in the Throne room and say
" Hey saint Frank in Ca. ask me to ask you to heal his leg" When Paul ask in his letters that were sent to the various churches, to pray for Him, were those letters heard /read by the dead in Christ? Just thinking how the system works to send prayers to those apart from the Holy Trinity boggles my mind…
 
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