Why don't Protestants believe in purgatory?

[Wannano]

I just don’t get it? Who is to say that we are even worthy of entering the kingdom of heaven, with our Perfect Heavenly Father? How dare anyone say and assume that we are going to heaven after we die, how are Protestants so certain? You have to be literally perfect to enter heaven, how are Protestants so sure they don’t need purgatory? Purgatory just makes perfect sense.

OK help this non-Catholic out. If my understanding is correct, purgatory is only experienced by those who are on their way to heaven? They are getting cleansed to be perfect enough to be in God’s presence? The individual who was Baptized as a baby but who has not lived a Christian life openly committing sins of adultery, drunkeness, profanity of Gods name, lying, dealing dishonestly, no church attendance, even professing verbally while alive that that “religious stuff” is all BS goes straight to hell? No chance of purgatory for him?

 

[Peter_J]

The notion of purgatory is offensive to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Which notion, friend? The word purgatory (or purgatorio, purgatorium, etc) has been used many many times by many many people. I really don’t think that every one of them had the same notion.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by adamhovey1988
She had a little angry at me when I told her she had an invalid Eucharist but that’s alright.

Oh, were you trying to keep that a secret?

Ow! I’m kidding, I’m kidding. But seriously (and just for what it’s worth – I won’t make any assertions about how much that should be) I’ve also known many Roman Catholics who get a little angry when the Eastern Orthodox say that our Eucharist is invalid.

 

[rnmvrck]

Which notion, friend? The word purgatory (or purgatorio, purgatorium, etc) has been used many many times by many many people. I really don’t think that every one of them had the same notion.

Fair comment Friend. Instead of Purgatory substitute, “additional punishment after death for those who sins are already forgiven where man offers works of penance to pay for sins of others by lessening their pain and helping them get out of that place where Catholic tradition says people go who die with “venial” sins (Catholic catechism) sooner”.

 

[Techno2000]

OK help this non-Catholic out. If my understanding is correct, purgatory is only experienced by those who are on their way to heaven? They are getting cleansed to be perfect enough to be in God’s presence? The individual who was Baptized as a baby but who has not lived a Christian life openly committing sins of adultery, drunkeness, profanity of Gods name, lying, dealing dishonestly, no church attendance, even professing verbally while alive that that “religious stuff” is all BS goes straight to hell? No chance of purgatory for him?

If they despised Jesus at the moment of death, they will be lock in that position after death too Baptized or not.

 

[Wannano]

If they despised Jesus at the moment of death, they will be lock in that position after death too Baptized or not.

Ok, thanks, I just want to clarify, that person under the condition you describe would not enter into purgatory?

 

[Techno2000]

Ok, thanks, I just want to clarify, that person under the condition you describe would not enter into purgatory?

Maybe they could if somebody had prayed for that person, and God answered their
prayers… God only knows.

 

[Wannano]

Maybe they could if somebody had prayed for that person, and God answered their
prayers… God only knows.

Thank you for your patience as I am unclear. We have established that this person is locked in their position because at the moment of death they despised Jesus. Are you saying this person could experience purgatory and then heaven if someone else had prayed for him before he died?

 

[Techno2000]

Thank you for your patience as I am unclear. We have established that this person is locked in their position because at the moment of death they despised Jesus. Are you saying this person could experience purgatory and then heaven if someone else had prayed for him before he died?

There are degrees of being a “Hardened Sinner” and this person might have at least one redeeming quality for God to Glom onto, and use that to saved him.He might have done some good deeds in his life and was told “God Bless You” by different people in his life, and God will use these “God Bless You” 's as kind of a prayer for that person. But if he is saved he will have to go the Ante-purgatory which is the purgatory of the “forgotten Souls” which is a purgatory for people who forgot about Jesus in this life, and now Jesus forgets about them this purgatory.Makes sense ?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Although I only believe in the 66 books of the Bible, the verse in Maccabee’s that is often brought up has one big flaw. The sin committed was idolatry under the catholic view’ this is indeed an mortal sin in the eyes of God (i.e., worse sin to God) and they will be in hell, not purgatory, for this sin.

Catholics do not judge whether someone will go to hell, because we do not know. In this particular case, we cannot judge the hearts and intentions of the individual. I don’t think the Maccabees did either, they pray for their fellow man, keeping hope in their Father, leaving out the judgments that are only for God to make. We do the same.

 

[rnmvrck]

Catholics do not judge whether someone will go to hell, because we do not know. In this particular case, we cannot judge the hearts and intentions of the individual. I don’t think the Maccabees did either, they pray for their fellow man, keeping hope in their Father, leaving out the judgments that are only for God to make. We do the same.

I did not judge them. The book of Maccabees says they were guilty of idol worship. If God judges them guilty of idol worship then they will be in hell and if not, then they will be in heaven. Just following the story line … I have found people in all religions wind up judging people … that is what some people do regardless of religion.

 

[Techno2000]

I did not judge them. The book of Maccabees says they were guilty of idol worship. If God judges them guilty of idol worship then they will be in hell and if not, then they will be in heaven. Just following the story line … I have found people in all religions wind up judging people … that is what some people do regardless of religion.

Are you 100% certain on how God’s Justice and Mercy works, I’m not… that why follow Church teaching on this, what about Abraham’s Bosom ?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I did not judge them. The book of Maccabees says they were guilty of idol worship. If God judges them guilty of idol worship then they will be in hell and if not, then they will be in heaven. Just following the story line … I have found people in all religions wind up judging people … that is what some people do regardless of religion.

It says that amulets sacred to another nation were found in their tunics, the implication is allegiance to a false god or gods… the level of individual severity is not discussed, neither is final judgement. It is however important that the living thought it beneficial to pray for the dead, and hope in God’s mercy.

"39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.
40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.
42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. "

As to judgments, we are discussing religious judgments and categorizing others as hellbound, not people judging each other fairly or not.

 

[Wannano]

There are degrees of being a “Hardened Sinner” and this person might have at least one redeeming quality for God to Glom onto, and use that to saved him.He might have done some good deeds in his life and was told “God Bless You” by different people in his life, and God will use these “God Bless You” 's as kind of a prayer for that person. But if he is saved he will have to go the Ante-purgatory which is the purgatory of the “forgotten Souls” which is a purgatory for people who forgot about Jesus in this life, and now Jesus forgets about them this purgatory.Makes sense ?

Honestly, I am not sure…it is so different from anything I have been taught. The idea sounds good in that most everybody will make it to heaven, I just not sure that is the reality though.

Further to this discussion, the above proposed individual was a man in our community jthat I knew well that died suddenly recently. I am not making judgements on his eternal destiny, I am trying to understand how the Catholic Church sees this. At his funeral a full Mass was celebrated which at the end the Priest intoned God to “forgive all his sins, voluntary and involuntary”. Would this be the same action that a Priest would be giving in a confession only this request cancelling out a lifetime of sins instead of certain confessed sins?

 

[Techno2000]

At his funeral a full Mass was celebrated which at the end the Priest intoned God to “forgive all his sins, voluntary and involuntary”. Would this be the same action that a Priest would be giving in a confession only this request cancelling out a lifetime of sins instead of certain confessed sins?

This is more of just asking for a general mercy from God… if that soul went to purgatory , the Priest is Jesus’s representative on earth, and speaks for him and Jesus’s Church … “The Church of Peter”. ie the Catholic Church.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God,** who takes away the sin of the world!**

John 1:29

 

[Peter_J]

Honestly, I am not sure…it is so different from anything I have been taught. The idea sounds good in that most everybody will make it to heaven, I just not sure that is the reality though.

Further to this discussion, the above proposed individual was a man in our community jthat I knew well that died suddenly recently. I am not making judgements on his eternal destiny, I am trying to understand how the Catholic Church sees this. At his funeral a full Mass was celebrated which at the end the Priest intoned God to “forgive all his sins, voluntary and involuntary”. Would this be the same action that a Priest would be giving in a confession only this request cancelling out a lifetime of sins instead of certain confessed sins?

This wasn’t addressed to me, but here’s two things …

On the first part, Catholics can’t say for certain that “most everybody will make it to heaven”, though of course we hope everyone will go to heaven.

On the last part, no. Sacramental absolution is only for those still living on earth. (Well, or outer space, if you want to get technical. )

 

[Techno2000]

This wasn’t addressed to me, but here’s two things …

On the first part, Catholics can’t say for certain that “most everybody will make it to heaven”, though of course we hope everyone will go to heaven.

On the last part, no. Sacramental absolution is only for those still living on earth. (Well, or outer space, if you want to get technical. )

You forgot Last Rites… which can take way Mortal sins too.

 

[Reuben_J]

You forgot Last Rites… which can take way Mortal sins too.

Guess it was too late for last rites (Anointing the Sick and Sacrament of Penance ), it was a requiem (funeral mass).

That was as much what the priest could do. The deceased had made an account of himself, he was given a chance, like all of us, now the Lord took him, the livings can only give him a sending away, and pray for his soul.

Peter J was right, we cannot know whether he made it to heaven, unless of course if he would be canonized saint. The priest being the celebrant of the mass usually gives the usual homily, among other things he would reiterate God’s promise of eternal life for those who believe, which the deceased did by virtue of his Baptism. God only knows how he had lived his Baptismal life.

 

[Techno2000]

Guess it was too late for last rites (Anointing the Sick and Sacrament of Penance ), it was a requiem (funeral mass).

That was as much what the priest could do. The deceased had made an account of himself, he was given a chance, like all of us, now the Lord took him, the livings can only give him a sending away, and pray for his soul.

Peter J was right, we cannot know whether he made it to heaven, unless of course if he would be canonized saint. The priest being the celebrant of the mass usually gives the usual homily, among other things he would reiterate God’s promise of eternal life for those who believe, which the deceased did by virtue of his Baptism. God only knows how he had lived his Baptismal life.

 

[Wannano]

Guess it was too late for last rites (Anointing the Sick and Sacrament of Penance ), it was a requiem (funeral mass).

That was as much what the priest could do. The deceased had made an account of himself, he was given a chance, like all of us, now the Lord took him, the livings can only give him a sending away, and pray for his soul.

Peter J was right, we cannot know whether he made it to heaven, unless of course if he would be canonized saint. The priest being the celebrant of the mass usually gives the usual homily, among other things he would reiterate God’s promise of eternal life for those who believe, which the deceased did by virtue of his Baptism. God only knows how he had lived his Baptismal life.

Thanks to all who presented insight on this. Is it too simple for Catholics and non-catholics to both realize that we agree that God alone is the judge and sole determiner of the eternal fate of a human soul?