Why don't Protestants believe in purgatory?

[Abu]

Eazyduzit #120
I believe you are misinformed.
Your failure lies isolating parts of scripture to prove your theology, rather than including all of what the word is saying and letting that form your theology, or in this case, hamartiology.

As Christ formed His Church on St Peter and only She has with His authority declared which books form the Sacred Scriptures others, who fancy their own interpretations, have no authority. Her teaching encompasses all faith and morals.

Thus, removing books without any authority whatsoever is the height of folly, but the direct result of private interpretation – anything goes.

In reality Christ’s Church has infallibly taught through the Second Vatican Council that the inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach the truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

The obvious and stark result of private interpretation by Protestants is the thousands of sects all teaching something different and none with any authority from Christ.

So real believers know that “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins.” [2 Maccabees 12:46]

 

[twf]

…

No one, Abu, can act as a co-redeemer with Christ. This is anti-biblical. Heb1:3 testifies, “…when He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, sat down…” and that means all sins for all time. Second, Heb9:22 states, “…and without shedding of blood is no remission.” And this blood must be pure, not of an earthly father descended from Adam. You do not qualify…

What then do you make of Col. 1:24? Certainly Our Lord merited infinite grace through His passion, death, and resurrection. The cross, the shedding of Our Lord’s most Precious Blood, is all-sufficient for our salvation. Yet the gift of salvation Our Lord won for us must be mediating to each of us in time and space. Christ could have simply declared all men everywhere and always saved…but neither of us believes that to be the case. We both believe that we must cooperate with Christ’s grace by choosing to receive His gift. An act of the will is required on our part. Col. 1:24 is one of many verses that shows this to be an ongoing process. St. Paul speaks of uniting his sufferings to the cross and thus participating in the work of redemption. No, Christ does not need our efforts, our works, our sufferings, but He CHOOSES to unite our efforts, as small as they are, to His supreme effort on the cross, and thus makes each of us His co-redeemers, His brothers, His cooperators, His co-heirs (Rom. 8:17). Christ is the vine and we are the branches, as Our Lord teaches us in John 15…as long as we abide in Him we are able to bear fruit that is pleasing to the Father. As St. John says in the first chapter of his gospel, to those who believe Christ gave the “power to become the sons of God” (John 1:12) and a share of His own divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).
I think this is an important foundation to cover before even diving into the issue of purgatory. Yes, we are indeed called to work out our salvation with “fear and trembling” (Phil. 2:12) for the Lord, through His death and resurrection, has won for us the grace that makes this possible. By ourselves we are nothing…our works are but empty rags…but united to His grace they become worthy of the Father’s approval.

It is for this reason that Our Lord, in Matthew 25 with the parable of the sheep and the goats, declares the righteous to be saved BECAUSE of their good works ("…for I was hungry and you fed me…") and the wicked damned BECAUSE of their lack of good works. Scripture is clear that salvation is by the grace of Christ alone. Scripture is also clear that salvation is by works. Christ Himself preaches it again and again without any qualification - Matthew 25 being a great example. Only the traditional Christian teaching, the faith of the Fathers for 1500 years, as testified to and lived by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East, reconciles these apparent contradictions. It is Christ who enables us, by His transforming grace within our souls, to please the Father.

 

[sennincatholic]

REPLY

MY [PJM] comments

1st the penance example above ** IMO is greatly exaggerated: NEVER would a priest exclude a informed practicing catholic [even a serious sinner] that was contrite from receiving Catholic Holy Communion BECAUSE it IS Jesus; who desires that all be saved; and would assist this CONTRITE person from sinning again through graces received in the Eucharist. Nor would the priest LIKELY insist on a donation t charity. He MIGHT insist of some charitable acts; to off set the harm done to the Church and the families involved.
**
Indulgence defied by Fr Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

INDULGENCE. “The remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins forgiven as far as their guilt is concerned, which the follower of Christ with the proper dispositions and under certain determined conditions acquires through the intervention of the Church, which, as minister of the redemption, authoritatively dispenses and applies the treasury of the satisfaction won by Christ and the saints” (Pope Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences).

As originally understood, an indulgence was a mitigation of the severe canonical penances imposed on the faithful for grave sins. The term “indulgence” remained, however, even after these extreme penalties were discontinued. Yet until the Second Vatican Council, the norm for determining the effectiveness of an indulgenced practice was its relationship to the ancient canonical penances, as seen in the numbers, so many years or so many days, attached to every official listing of partial indulgences.

All this was changed by Pope Paul VI. From now on the measure of how efficacious an indulgenced work is depends on two things: the supernatural charity with which the indulgenced task is done, and the perfection of the task itself.

Another innovation is that partial and plenary indulgences can always be applied to the dead by way of suffrage, asking God to remit their sufferings if they are still in purgatory"

God Bless you

Thank you very much for the information

 

[rnmvrck]

But, there was a Abraham’s Bosom for sure, Right ?

Abrahams bosom is part of Hades where OT saints went and Jesus visited. It is biblical and in the Bible. Purgatory is not biblical and is not anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Reuben_J]

Abrahams bosom is part of Hades where OT saints went and Jesus visited. It is biblical and in the Bible. Purgatory is not biblical and is not anywhere in the Bible.

**1 Corinthians 3:15 (NKJV)

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.**

It was not called “purgatory” for sure but it is nevertheless.

 

[Techno2000]

Abrahams bosom is part of Hades where OT saints went and Jesus visited. It is biblical and in the Bible. Purgatory is not biblical and is not anywhere in the Bible.

Right, but it’s not so far fetched that there could be a place in between Heaven and Hell … Right ?

 

[patmiron]

PJM;13578396:

The first principle that must be understood, Patrick, is that no one can ever make themselves perfect, (or that is, come up to God’s standard). This is the very reason that we need a savior.
If there ever was any kind of fire or any suffering that could do anything for us, than it would not have been necessary for Jesus to offer Himself for us. The bible illustrates for us (if there be any doubt) 3 times in Rev. that those in heaven have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. There is no other way into heaven but by the blood. No fire, no self effort, only by the blood.Purgatory is a useless human effort.

My dear freind in Christ Jesus,

we certainly agree that we DO need Jesus as Savior.

As far as man being enabled [THROUGH GRACE from Jesus] to become perfect though is not only a real possibility; but ought to be our lives goal as well.

The Revelations passage you shared: “In the Blood of the Lamb” MEAN’s in God’s Graceful-grace-filled Mercy and love that He has for each of us.

It does not mean that all we do is profess belief in him [which actually requires knowledge of ALL that He taught [Mt 28:19-20 & Jn 17:17-20] and then TOTAL Obedience to that “all”. Amen:thumbsup:

Patrick [PJM]

 

[patmiron]

No Biblical basis for Purgatory.

Plenty for Blessed Assurance:

Romans 10:9 because[a] if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 2:21
Then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Acts 2:47
praising God and having the goodwill of all the people. And day by day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.

Acts 16:31
They answered, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’

Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what is seen?

These examples go on and on.

ohn 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My dear friend and bible scholar;

Perhaps then you can explain the following for us less informed?

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible? Which BTW is a Catholic Book.

***Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another
Verse, passage or teaching:
Were this even the slightest possibility;[it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or lean Christ Faith” ***

2 Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

[Douay explanation]
[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.** End Quotes**

Each of these passages references Purgatory [which like the term BIBLE is also NOT in the bible]

Lev.22: 21 “And when any one offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.

Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

1John.3: 2 to 3 “Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.”

1 Cor. 3: 13-14 “each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

2nd. Cor. 7:1 “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God

God Bless you, and welcome to CAF:thumbsup:

Patrick [PJM]

 

[Jeanne_S]

Off the record and in my own words, I’m using my phone now, they are in heaven. We celebrated the Feast of the Holy Innocence, those bsbies killed by Herod who hoped to killed Jesus among them. They were given saints status and thus allocated feast day in the Catholic liturgy calendar. By virtue of that, they were considered to be in heaven, and that likely applies to all babies. The details of this teaching maybe is more complicated . I’m unable to look it for you now.

I like to believe that this is the case for all innocent babies killed in the womb.That they are now safely in Jesus’ arms

 

[patmiron]

But, there was a Abraham’s Bosom for sure, Right ?

Certainy and it was NEITHER heavenor Hell:

We Catholics have a theological term for it: The Limbo of the Fathers"

This condition existed until the Resurrection of Jesus, which AMONG other things opened the Gate of heaven which had been locked as one of the effects of Original Sin by A & E.

Limbo was a place of no suffering BUT also incomplete Joy as those there were missing the Beatific Vision; actually being in the Divine Presence:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM].

 

[patmiron]

.
The only reason for that assumption is that the Church which Christ founded on Peter has been rejected.

The Bible which She has produced and guaranteed to be free from error states unequivocally that “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins.” [2 Maccabees 12:46]

That means unforgiven venial sins for which one has to undergo Purgatory to get to heaven. The failure lies in not having the complete Catholic Bible.

First, Our Lord had to redeem us from the effects of Original Sin which had closed heaven, but was opened by Him for us

Then, for our salvation, what is needed still is what we can and should suffer with Him; have to suffer, and offer supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings as coredeemers (1 Tim 2:5).
It is St. Paul, who wrote: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). What is lacking in Christ’s suffering is precisely what only we can do – take up our cross and suffer, repent and ask forgiveness, following the dictates of our conscience. [Frank Sheed, *Christ In Eclipse

, p 105-7].

So the real Bible as authenticated by the Catholic Church is replete with further evidence for Purgatory, here are a few:

1. Mt 12:32: Our Blessed Lord Himself: “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” “The age to come’ means life after death, so Our Lord is clear – there ARE other sins that can be pardoned after death. We see also that the Lord knew that His Jewish listeners knew what He meant by forgiveness I the next life.
2. Then follows Mt 12:36: “on the day of judgment, men will render account for every careless word they utter.” “Careless words” don’t merit Hell, but there will be a penalty which takes place in the Purgatory assigned for that.
3. Mt 5:21-6: Christ warns of the coming judgment, and in His parable emphasises “put in prison….you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.” So paid here, or hereafter where the detention is temporary that can be neither heaven or hell – but Purgatory.
4. 2 Tim 1:16-18: St Paul prays for the house hold of his helper Onesiphorus, then for Onesiphorus himself: “may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day.”
   Another example of Purgatory in St Paul’s prayer for the dead.

Christ offers no one the assurance of salvation (except for His Mother).

Excellent POST!

Thanks so much:thumbsup:

Continued Blessings,

Patrick PJM}

 

[patmiron]

Thank you for responding to my post, Abu, but I believe you are misinformed.
Your failure lies isolating parts of scripture to prove your theology, rather than including all of what the word is saying and letting that form your theology, or in this case, hamartiology.

The passage in Maccabees speaks of being freed from sins, not from a place. Aside from this, the sin committed was obviously much more serious than venial for God struck them dead on account of it! So it could not possibly have merited purgatory in any case. Thus, the passage has nothing to do with purgatory.

No one, Abu, can act as a co-redeemer with Christ. This is anti-biblical. Heb1:3 testifies, “…when He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, sat down…” and that means all sins for all time. Second, Heb9:22 states, “…and without shedding of blood is no remission.” And this blood must be pure, not of an earthly father descended from Adam. You do not qualify

And you know this how my freind From Luther or Calvin] some THOUSAND years after

In Mt. 12, the “age to come” does not refer to your death. It is a period in time. There is no “age” in heaven for there is no time. We are currently in the age of grace. The next age to come is the Kingdom age or Millennial Kingdom. Purgatory is concurrent with the present age as defined by the CC.

Mt. 5 speaks only of an earthly prison. There is always a chance that one may be released from an earthly prison if you have something to pay with, but as stated before, we have nothing to pay with when it comes to the indebtedness of sin before God.Indeed, we can repay a fellow man for a fault, but not God. We are at the mercy of the savior.

Again, you use Mt 12:36 to prove what you have already decided is true without even looking at the next verse which explains, “For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” This could not refer to purgatory unless you define purgatory as the place of the condemned which it is not, according to the CCC. Rather, it is for those who are on the way to heaven.

In 2Tim1:16 Paul is praying for the household of Onesiphoros or for household salvation, just as in Acts 16:32. In v.18 he prays for mercy “in that day” which always refers to the second coming and the events surrounding it. The church believed that the tribulation could occur in their lifetime, so this is more likely what the prayer refers to. In any event, purgatory is to terminate at the second coming according to the CCC. So this cannot refer to purgatory.

Have a great day Abu!

And you know this HOW friend? Because Luther and Calvin some THOUSAND plus years AFTER Christ one and true Faith had already been taught defined and shared? [Mt 16: 18-19; Jn 17: 17-20 & Mt 28:19-20]

Even God dear friend cannot have more than just ONE set of Faith beliefs [Ehg 4:1-7]; and it is an impossibility that Jesus [GOD] waited for these apostate- catholics to make His Faith known:thumbsup:

Pray about it!
God Bless you and thanks for sharing

Patrick [PJM]

 

[patmiron]

What then do you make of Col. 1:24? Certainly Our Lord merited infinite grace through His passion, death, and resurrection. The cross, the shedding of Our Lord’s most Precious Blood, is all-sufficient for our salvation. Yet the gift of salvation Our Lord won for us must be mediating to each of us in time and space. Christ could have simply declared all men everywhere and always saved…but neither of us believes that to be the case. We both believe that we must cooperate with Christ’s grace by choosing to receive His gift. An act of the will is required on our part. Col. 1:24 is one of many verses that shows this to be an ongoing process. St. Paul speaks of uniting his sufferings to the cross and thus participating in the work of redemption. No, Christ does not need our efforts, our works, our sufferings, but He CHOOSES to unite our efforts, as small as they are, to His supreme effort on the cross, and thus makes each of us His co-redeemers, His brothers, His cooperators, His co-heirs (Rom. 8:17). Christ is the vine and we are the branches, as Our Lord teaches us in John 15…as long as we abide in Him we are able to bear fruit that is pleasing to the Father. As St. John says in the first chapter of his gospel, to those who believe Christ gave the “power to become the sons of God” (John 1:12) and a share of His own divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).
I think this is an important foundation to cover before even diving into the issue of purgatory. Yes, we are indeed called to work out our salvation with “fear and trembling” (Phil. 2:12) for the Lord, through His death and resurrection, has won for us the grace that makes this possible. By ourselves we are nothing…our works are but empty rags…but united to His grace they become worthy of the Father’s approval.

It is for this reason that Our Lord, in Matthew 25 with the parable of the sheep and the goats, declares the righteous to be saved BECAUSE of their good works ("…for I was hungry and you fed me…") and the wicked damned BECAUSE of their lack of good works. Scripture is clear that salvation is by the grace of Christ alone. Scripture is also clear that salvation is by works. Christ Himself preaches it again and again without any qualification - Matthew 25 being a great example. Only the traditional Christian teaching, the faith of the Fathers for 1500 years, as testified to and lived by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East, reconciles these apparent contradictions. It is Christ who enables us, by His transforming grace within our souls, to please the Father.

Nicely done, thank you,

Patrick [PJM]

 

[patmiron]

Thank you very much for the information

You’re VERY welcome my friend,

Patrick [PJM]

 

[LordHaveMercy]

I think the question was why don’t Protestants believe in purgatory, not necessarily “why are Protestants wrong about purgatory.” My parents are Protestant and I have discussed this with them

1. My father rejects purgatory based on his notion (and that of his Pastor’s) that it is not in scripture and views it as something added on later. He actually appreciates the logic of purgatory, but says because it is not in scripture (according to him) that he does not believe it exists.
2. My mother finds purgatory to be incompatible with her understanding of God’s love and believes that if someone dies destined for heaven, God will take them immediately into His arms.

My dads view is at least consistent with his beliefs about divine revelation (sola scriptura) and a logical conclusion of this view of revelation, and he does not pretend that pirgatoey is not a logical conclusion. My moms interpretation is poetic but actually, to me, more problematic because she’s somewhat calling God’s love into question when she says purgatory contradicts God’s love, and not doing so based on her reading of scripture but just on her personal convictions. I just made them promise to “pretend” it’s real and have Masses said for me if I die before them.

 

[patmiron]

Abrahams bosom is part of Hades where OT saints went and Jesus visited. It is biblical and in the Bible. Purgatory is not biblical and is not anywhere in the Bible.

ACTUALLY NOT:blush:

Please read my post #130 below to actually discover the truth

God Bless you [and may he grant you understanding and forgiveness]. Please read

Heb. 6:4-8 written for FORMER Catholics

[4] For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. [7] For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. [8] But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned."

Our choices; our actions ALWAYS have consequences

Pray much

Patrick [PJM]

 

[Abu]

LordHaveMercy #135

1. My father rejects purgatory based on his notion (and that of his Pastor’s) that it is not in scripture and views it as something added on later. He actually appreciates the logic of purgatory, but says because it is not in scripture (according to him) that he does not believe it exists

The solution is to reveal that 7 Books have been left out of the Protestant Bible, and as the real Bible was put together and authorised only by** the Catholic Church, which was originated by Christ Himself as his own Church, and no other for in the Gospel of St. Matt. XVl., 18-19, we find Christ empowering Peter, “I say to thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, it shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall he loosed also in heaven.”**

“To prove Purgatory, therefore, I have to prove that there is an intermediate state, and that souls are purified after death. Now that the intermediate state is a reality is evident from 1 Peter III., 18. St. Peter there says that Christ died in the flesh, but that His living soul went to preach to those spirits that were in prison. Those souls were in a state which was after this life, yet which was neither heaven nor hell. St. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. III., 15, that if, at a man’s judgment after death, his lifework proves to be imperfect, he shall be saved, yet only by fire, i. e., after being purified as by fire. This cannot refer to the eternal punishment of hell, for out of hell there is no redemption. It refers, then, to a temporary loss of the Vision of God, and the enduring of a purifying expiation for a time, the soul being ultimately saved and admitted to heaven. This is practically the definition of Purgatory.”
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?q=Purgatory&db=2

964. How do you prove the existence of such a state?
‘In Matt. V., 26, Christ, in condemning sin, speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.” In Matt. XII., 32, He speaks of sin which “shall not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come.” Any remission of the effects of sin in the next world can refer only to Purgatory. Above all St. Paul tells us that the Day of Judgment will try each man’s work. That day is after death, when the soul goes to meet its God. What is the result of that judgment? If a man’s work will not stand the test St. Paul says that “he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” 1 Cor. III., 15. This cannot refer to eternal loss in hell, for no one is saved there. Nor can it refer to heaven, for there is no suffering in heaven. Purgatory alone can explain this text As a matter of fact, all Christians believed in Purgatory until the Reformation, when the reformers began their rejection of Christian doctrines at will. Prayer for the dead was ever the prevailing custom, in accordance with the recommendation of the Bible itself. “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins.” 2 Mach. XII., 46. Prayer for the dead supposes a soul not in heaven where it does not need the help of prayer, nor in hell where prayer cannot assist it. Some intermediate state of purification and need, where prayer can help, is necessary. And the doctrine is most reasonable. “Nothing defiled shall enter heaven.” Rev. XXL, 27. Yet not all defilement should cost man the loss of his soul. Even in this life human justice does not inflict capital punishment for every crime. Small offenses are punished by fines or by temporary imprisonment, after which the delinquent is liberated. Those who deny Purgatory teach the harder and more unreasonable doctrine.’ [My emphasis].
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?s=20&q=Purgatory

 

[LordHaveMercy]

The solution is to reveal that 7 Books have been left out of the Protestant Bible, and as the real Bible was put together and authorised only by** the Catholic Church, which was originated by Christ Himself as his own Church, and no other for in the Gospel of St. Matt. XVl., 18-19, we find Christ empowering Peter, “I say to thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, it shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall he loosed also in heaven.”**

“To prove Purgatory, therefore, I have to prove that there is an intermediate state, and that souls are purified after death. Now that the intermediate state is a reality is evident from 1 Peter III., 18. St. Peter there says that Christ died in the flesh, but that His living soul went to preach to those spirits that were in prison. Those souls were in a state which was after this life, yet which was neither heaven nor hell. St. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. III., 15, that if, at a man’s judgment after death, his lifework proves to be imperfect, he shall be saved, yet only by fire, i. e., after being purified as by fire. This cannot refer to the eternal punishment of hell, for out of hell there is no redemption. It refers, then, to a temporary loss of the Vision of God, and the enduring of a purifying expiation for a time, the soul being ultimately saved and admitted to heaven. This is practically the definition of Purgatory.”
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?q=Purgatory&db=2

964. How do you prove the existence of such a state?
‘In Matt. V., 26, Christ, in condemning sin, speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.” In Matt. XII., 32, He speaks of sin which “shall not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come.” Any remission of the effects of sin in the next world can refer only to Purgatory. Above all St. Paul tells us that the Day of Judgment will try each man’s work. That day is after death, when the soul goes to meet its God. What is the result of that judgment? If a man’s work will not stand the test St. Paul says that “he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” 1 Cor. III., 15. This cannot refer to eternal loss in hell, for no one is saved there. Nor can it refer to heaven, for there is no suffering in heaven. Purgatory alone can explain this text As a matter of fact, all Christians believed in Purgatory until the Reformation, when the reformers began their rejection of Christian doctrines at will. Prayer for the dead was ever the prevailing custom, in accordance with the recommendation of the Bible itself. “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins.” 2 Mach. XII., 46. Prayer for the dead supposes a soul not in heaven where it does not need the help of prayer, nor in hell where prayer cannot assist it. Some intermediate state of purification and need, where prayer can help, is necessary. And the doctrine is most reasonable. “Nothing defiled shall enter heaven.” Rev. XXL, 27. Yet not all defilement should cost man the loss of his soul. Even in this life human justice does not inflict capital punishment for every crime. Small offenses are punished by fines or by temporary imprisonment, after which the delinquent is liberated. Those who deny Purgatory teach the harder and more unreasonable doctrine.’ [My emphasis].
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?s=20&q=Purgatory

Abu, you rock! Thanks for sharing this.

 

[eazyduzit]

As Christ formed His Church on St Peter and only She has with His authority declared which books form the Sacred Scriptures others, who fancy their own interpretations, have no authority. Her teaching encompasses all faith and morals.

Thus, removing books without any authority whatsoever is the height of folly, but the direct result of private interpretation – anything goes.

In reality Christ’s Church has infallibly taught through the Second Vatican Council that the inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach the truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

The obvious and stark result of private interpretation by Protestants is the thousands of sects all teaching something different and none with any authority from Christ.

So real believers know that “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins.” [2 Maccabees 12:46]

What the CC actually did was to select extra books from Jewish history that seem to support it’s own theological wishes. It rejected those such as 4 Esdras in which there is a verse that speaks against a purgatorial state.

You missed my previous post in which I explained that 2Mac12 does not speak of a 3rd state at all and is not about venial sins, so it can not apply to purgatory in any way whatsoever.

I too believe that one can be “loosed” or forgiven from sins after death, but it is only by faith in the savior, not by one’s own suffering. That is absolutely anti-biblical.

 

[Techno2000]

1. My father rejects purgatory based on his notion (and that of his Pastor’s) that it is not in scripture and views it as something added on later. He actually appreciates the logic of purgatory, but says because it is not in scripture (according to him) that he does not believe it exists.

Tell them the word… TRINITY… isn’t in the Bible also.