Why don't Protestants believe in purgatory?

[eazyduzit]

The solution is to reveal that 7 Books have been left out of the Protestant Bible, and as the real Bible was put together and authorised only by** the Catholic Church, which was originated by Christ Himself as his own Church, and no other for in the Gospel of St. Matt. XVl., 18-19, we find Christ empowering Peter, “I say to thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, it shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall he loosed also in heaven.”**

“To prove Purgatory, therefore, I have to prove that there is an intermediate state, and that souls are purified after death. Now that the intermediate state is a reality is evident from 1 Peter III., 18. St. Peter there says that Christ died in the flesh, but that His living soul went to preach to those spirits that were in prison. Those souls were in a state which was after this life, yet which was neither heaven nor hell. St. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. III., 15, that if, at a man’s judgment after death, his lifework proves to be imperfect, he shall be saved, yet only by fire, i. e., after being purified as by fire. This cannot refer to the eternal punishment of hell, for out of hell there is no redemption. It refers, then, to a temporary loss of the Vision of God, and the enduring of a purifying expiation for a time, the soul being ultimately saved and admitted to heaven. This is practically the definition of Purgatory.”
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?q=Purgatory&db=2

964. How do you prove the existence of such a state?
'In Matt. V., 26, Christ, in condemning sin, speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.” In Matt. XII., 32, He speaks of sin which “shall not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come.” Any remission of the effects of sin in the next world can refer only to Purgatory. Above all St. Paul tells us that the Day of Judgment will try each man’s work. That day is after death, when the soul goes to meet its God. What is the result of that judgment? If a man’s work will not stand the test St. Paul says that “he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” 1 Cor. III., 15. This cannot refer to eternal loss in hell, for no one is saved there. Nor can it refer to heave
radioreplies.info/site-search.php?s=20&q=Purgatory

This is a misreading of 1Cor. 3. It is speaking of the testing of works and trying them in fire to prove what materials were used. It is not about sins or salvation. The point here is that if the work we built was just sticks and burned up, we are still saved, but we lose any reward, and we will feel or suffer a great and regretful loss. This has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory or a third state.

 

[Techno2000]

This is a misreading of 1Cor. 3. It is speaking of the testing of works and trying them in fire to prove what materials were used. It is not about sins or salvation. The point here is that if the work we built was just sticks and burned up, we are still saved, but we lose any reward, and we will feel or suffer a great and regretful loss. This has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory or a third state.

So how do we suffer… a great and regretful loss ?

 

[Reuben_J]

This is a misreading of 1Cor. 3. It is speaking of the testing of works and trying them in fire to prove what materials were used. It is not about sins or salvation. The point here is that if the work we built was just sticks and burned up, we are still saved, but we lose any reward, and we will feel or suffer a great and regretful loss. This has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory or a third state.

What is bad work, if not sin, that cause both you and work to be burned through fire? The work would be lost and burnt but you suffer great loss and saved through fire.

What kind of Protestant are you?

Why do you believe that work can be rewarded in the Day of Judgment? What reward that would be? No Protestants that I have heard here believed you are rewarded by your work. They believe that you are rewarded by your faith (eternal life) and punished because of your sin (eternal fire). Faith leads to good work which will be rewarded, without faith leads to bad work, sin, which will be punished.

Why would you suffer loss and saved through fire (1 Cor 3:15)?

No need to answer those questions. I am just pointing to you how ridiculous your explanation is when you try to circumvent the obvious (that there is another state, not hell, that saves you – purgatory).

 

[Abu]

eazyduzit #139
What the CC actually did was to select extra books from Jewish history that seem to support it’s own theological wishes. It rejected those such as 4 Esdras in which there is a verse that speaks against a purgatorial state.

The “theological wishes” over which you fantasise show your rejection of Jesus, Our Lord and Saviour, when He established His Church. You need no longer reject Him when you come to accept Him as your Lord and Saviour for He specifically mandated how you should follow Him.

**Jesus explicitly made four promises to Peter alone: **
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." (Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19) [Later to the Twelve, also].

**Sole authority: **
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Thus we see that Jesus very specifically formed His Church, and no other, on Peter the leader of the twelve Apostles. Further, the Sacred Scriptures emphasise:
The Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).” St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ!

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1). St John counsels: “We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.” (1 Jn 4:6 ).

Jesus, having given His authority to St Peter, confirmed: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:15-18) “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in My name, He will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15).

Jesus warned dissenters: “if he refuses to hear even the Church let him be like the heathen and a publican.” (Mt 18:17).

Why deny the hunger to follow the Christ in the Way He has so clearly provided for us, through His one and only Catholic Church?

 

[Peter_J]

This is a misreading of 1Cor. 3. It is speaking of the testing of works and trying them in fire to prove what materials were used. It is not about sins or salvation. The point here is that if the work we built was just sticks and burned up, we are still saved, but we lose any reward, and we will feel or suffer a great and regretful loss. This has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory or a third state.

You might not call that burning up “purgatory”, but some would.

 

[JonNC]

Tell them the word… TRINITY… isn’t in the Bible also.

I don’t think he meant the word was not in scripture. That’s obvious. I think the contention is the concept is not in scripture.
The concept of the Trinity can be clearly arrived at using scripture, the baptism of Christ being a prime example.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Why do you believe that work can be rewarded in the Day of Judgment? What reward that would be? No Protestants that I have heard here believed you are rewarded by your work. They believe that you are rewarded by your faith (eternal life) and punished because of your sin (eternal fire). Faith leads to good work which will be rewarded, without faith leads to bad work, sin, which will be punished.

No need to answer those questions. .

At least on the point above, there does need to be a response, Reuben.

From the Lutheran / Catholic dialogue statement, The Hope of Eternal Life, starting at paragraph 62. The excerpt below indicates that there is judgement of works. One who, on the one hand confess the Athanasian Creed ( “He will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all human beings will rise with their bodies and will give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good things will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil things into eternal fire” ), cannot on the other hand deny a judgement of works.

1. Catholics and Lutherans affirm together that God, who calls us into a life of communion with him, holds us accountable for our whole lives. The grace we have been given in Christ and the Spirit is not a “talent” to bury, but should become our empowerment for praising God in freedom and contributing to the good of our fellow creatures (cf. Mt. 25:1-14). We also cannot forget that God’s gifts to us can be squandered. Each Christian must take seriously Paul’s admonition, “Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12, RSV).

1. The truths that God will judge our lives, that what we have done in the dark will be brought to light, and that we will know as we are known, all affirm both the seriousness of how each of us lives and God’s faithfulness to his human creatures. Both our traditions reject “security” in the face of divine judgment, while recalling that from those to whom much has been given, much will be required (cf. Lk. 12:48).

1. Both of our traditions, however, form us to live in joyful confidence and certainty of hope. We know that God’s grace is sufficient. God’s judgment is one aspect of the comprehensive establishment of God’s justice, that is, the very justice that is an essential aspect of our hope. Judgment, as our encounter with God revealing the truth about the lives we have lived, is an important and necessary moment of our entrance into the joy of eternal life and thus should be an object of our hope as well.

1. Foundational for our hope, however, is that our Judge will be none other than our Savior. We can entrust the judgment of our lives to the one who died for our trespasses and rose for our justification (cf. Rom. 4:25).

I am just pointing to you how ridiculous your explanation is when you try to circumvent the obvious (that there is another state, not hell, that saves you – purgatory)

There need not necessarily be a belief in an intermediate state/place to affirm the purgation of those who die under grace, in order to be cleansed to enter Heaven.

Cr. Ratzinger - “Purgatory is not, as Tertullian thought, some kind of supra-worldly concentration camp where man is forced to undergo punishment in a more or less arbitrary fashion. Rather is it the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.”

Pope Benedict - “It is clear that we cannot calculate the ‘duration’ of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning — it is the heart’s time, it is the time of ‘passage’ to communion with God in the Body of Christ.”

Jon

All emphasis mine

 

[theropod]

Good stuff, JohnNC.

I wonder what the long term impacts of Ratzinger/Benedict’s writing will be. From this non-RC’s perspective, he sure seems to have made some clarifications to some RC doctrines that have rubbed Protestants the wrong way for a long time. Stating that Tertullian was wrong goes a long way towards healing that rift. Surely concepts of Purgatory like Tertullian’s are what the Reformers railed against, not necessarily what Ratzinger was describing.

 

[Peter_J]

Good stuff, JohnNC.

I wonder what the long term impacts of Ratzinger/Benedict’s writing will be. From this non-RC’s perspective, he sure seems to have made some clarifications to some RC doctrines that have rubbed Protestants the wrong way for a long time. Stating that Tertullian was wrong goes a long way towards healing that rift. Surely concepts of Purgatory like Tertullian’s are what the Reformers railed against, not necessarily what Ratzinger was describing.

We shall see.

 

[JonNC]

Good stuff, JohnNC.

I wonder what the long term impacts of Ratzinger/Benedict’s writing will be. From this non-RC’s perspective, he sure seems to have made some clarifications to some RC doctrines that have rubbed Protestants the wrong way for a long time. Stating that Tertullian was wrong goes a long way towards healing that rift. Surely concepts of Purgatory like Tertullian’s are what the Reformers railed against, not necessarily what Ratzinger was describing.

One of the points that the joint statement makes is that the main complaint of the Lutheran reformers with Purgatory was not the doctrine itself, but with the traditions and practices that grew up around it:

1. The Lutheran Confessions are uniformly critical of the doctrine of purgatory. Their primary interest in the doctrine, however, is its relation to the proclamation of the gospel and its effect upon the article of justification. When the Confessions discuss purgatory, their concern is dominantly with the practices associated with purgatory: indulgences, masses for the dead, prayers for the dead. In response to these practices and in line with their understanding of the gospel, the Confessions, and the Lutheran Reformers more generally, not only rejected these perceived abuses, but indicated an alternative understanding of how the justified are perfected for glory by death and resurrection, without working out all the details.

Luther’s hyperbole and polemics aside, he says:

“When they have given up their purgatorial ‘Mass fairs’ (something Augustine never dreamed of), then we will discuss with them whether St. Augustine’s word, lacking support from Scripture, may be tolerated and whether the dead may be commemorated at the sacrament. It will not do to formulate articles of faith on the basis of the holy Fathers’ works or words”

Jon

 

[Techno2000]

I don’t think he meant the word was not in scripture. That’s obvious. I think the contention is the concept is not in scripture.
The concept of the Trinity can be clearly arrived at using scripture, the baptism of Christ being a prime example.

Jon

And, we say that the concept of purgatory can be clearly arrived at using scripture, also.

 

[patmiron]

I think the question was why don’t Protestants believe in purgatory, not necessarily “why are Protestants wrong about purgatory.” My parents are Protestant and I have discussed this with them

1. My father rejects purgatory based on his notion (and that of his Pastor’s) that it is not in scripture and views it as something added on later. He actually appreciates the logic of purgatory, but says because it is not in scripture (according to him) that he does not believe it exists.
2. My mother finds purgatory to be incompatible with her understanding of God’s love and believes that if someone dies destined for heaven, God will take them immediately into His arms.

My dads view is at least consistent with his beliefs about divine revelation (sola scriptura) and a logical conclusion of this view of revelation, and he does not pretend that pirgatoey is not a logical conclusion. My moms interpretation is poetic but actually, to me, more problematic because she’s somewhat calling God’s love into question when she says purgatory contradicts God’s love, and not doing so based on her reading of scripture but just on her personal convictions. I just made them promise to “pretend” it’s real and have Masses said for me if I die before them.

OK:

In teply to this and the OP’s question

Protestants do not believe it because its “NOT in the Bible” [neither is the term BIBLE]

But then they don’t choose to believe even what IS IN the bible; such as One God; faith and Church

Such as the Real Presence testified too by FIVE different authors of the bible

Or sin forgiveness in John 20:19-23 because it does not align with what THEY choose to believe

YET Purgatory IS IN the bible; IF God would permit them to rightly understand it:

Lev.22: 21 “And when any one offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.

Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

1John.3: 2 to 3 “Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.”

1 Cor. 3: 13-14 “each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

2nd. Cor. 7:1 “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God

So it would objectively seem the real issue is not what is; or is not in the bible; RATHER how to gain a right understanding of it:shrug:

Let us pray that the Holy Spirit will allow them such a degree of right understanding that it will even over power what clearly seems to be personal prejudices

God Bless you and them

Patrick

 

[patmiron]

JUST A WORD OF WARNING HERE

Originally Posted by PJM View Post

The first principle that must be understood, Patrick, is that no one can ever make themselves perfect, (or that is, come up to God’s standard). This is the very reason that we need a savior.

If there ever was any kind of fire or any suffering that could do anything for us, than it would not have been necessary for Jesus to offer Himself for us. The bible illustrates for us (if there be any doubt) 3 times in Rev. that those in heaven have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. There is no other way into heaven but by the blood. No fire, no self effort, only by the blood.Purgatory is a useless human effort.

THIS WAS NOT A PJM POST; I’m PJM:shrug:

eazyduzit;13590383:

My dear freind in Christ Jesus,

we certainly agree that we DO need Jesus as Savior.

As far as man being enabled [THROUGH GRACE from Jesus] to become perfect though is not only a real possibility; but ought to be our lives goal as well.

The Revelations passage you shared: “In the Blood of the Lamb” MEAN’s in God’s Graceful-grace-filled Mercy and love that He has for each of us.

It does not mean that all we do is profess belief in him [which actually requires knowledge of ALL that He taught [Mt 28:19-20 & Jn 17:17-20] and then TOTAL Obedience to that “all”. Amen:thumbsup:

Patrick [PJM]

 

[JonNC]

And, we say that the concept of purgatory can be clearly arrived at using scripture, also.

Yep, I know you do.

Jon

 

[patmiron]

What the CC actually did was to select extra books from Jewish history that seem to support it’s own theological wishes. It rejected those such as 4 Esdras in which there is a verse that speaks against a purgatorial state.

You missed my previous post in which I explained that 2Mac12 does not speak of a 3rd state at all and is not about venial sins, so it can not apply to purgatory in any way whatsoever.

I too believe that one can be “loosed” or forgiven from sins after death, but it is only by faith in the savior, not by one’s own suffering. That is absolutely anti-biblical.

WOW, such a level of wrongunderstanding; and it’s believed hook, line and sinker:shrug:

So the 73 book bible existed for 1,400 years and God as GOOD with it [2nd Tim 3:16-17]

[16] All scripture, [IS] inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

So then my friend the bible according to you is WRONG:shrug:

So tell me how does one accept your view from objective truth? I’m confused here

God Bless you! And May He grant you HIS understanding:thumbsup:

PJM

 

[patmiron]

This is a misreading of 1Cor. 3. It is speaking of the testing of works and trying them in fire to prove what materials were used. It is not about sins or salvation. The point here is that if the work we built was just sticks and burned up, we are still saved, but we lose any reward, and we will feel or suffer a great and regretful loss. This has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory or a third state.

REALLY:shrug:

Bible

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible? Which BTW is a Catholic Book.

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another
Verse, passage or teaching:
Were this even the slightest possibility;[it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or lean Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.
[Douay explanation]

[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise. End Quotes

GOD Bless you my friend!

PJM

 

[patmiron]

I don’t think he meant the word was not in scripture. That’s obvious. I think the contention is the concept is not in scripture.
The concept of the Trinity can be clearly arrived at using scripture, the baptism of Christ being a prime example.

Jon

CERTAINLY IT IS; IF AND WHEN ONE IS GRANTED FROM THE H P HOW RIGHTLY TO UNDERSTAND IT:thumbsup:

Bible

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible? Which BTW is a Catholic Book.

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another
Verse, passage or teaching:
Were this even the slightest possibility;[it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or lean Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.
[Douay explanation]

[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise. End Quotes

Lev.22: 21 “And when any one offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.

Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

1John.3: 2 to 3 “Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.”

1 Cor. 3: 13-14 “each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

2nd. Cor. 7:1 “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God

God Bless Jon,

PJM

 

[patmiron]

At least on the point above, there does need to be a response, Reuben.

From the Lutheran / Catholic dialogue statement, The Hope of Eternal Life, starting at paragraph 62. The excerpt below indicates that there is judgement of works. One who, on the one hand confess the Athanasian Creed ( “He will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all human beings will rise with their bodies and will give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good things will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil things into eternal fire” ), cannot on the other hand deny a judgement of works.

And the reason NO Protestant" believes i “works” is that THEY do not understand what the TERM actually means to US Catholics;

WORKS FOR CATHOLICS MEANS CHARITY

NOTING MORE AND CERTAINLY NOTHING LESS:thumbsup:

SO Protestants hold that charity is NOT necessary

Continued Blessings Jon!

PJM

There need not necessarily be a belief in an intermediate state/place to affirm the purgation of those who die under grace, in order to be cleansed to enter Heaven.

Cr. Ratzinger - "Purgatory is not, as Tertullian thought, some kind of supra-worldly concentration camp where man is forced to undergo punishment in a more or less arbitrary fashion. Rather is it the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints."

Pope Benedict - "It is clear that we cannot calculate the ‘duration’ of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming 'moment’ of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning — it is the heart’s time, it is the time of ‘passage’ to communion with God in the Body of Christ."

Jon

All emphasis mine

IN OTHER WORDS IT IS A ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TIME OF PURIFICATION BECAUSE ONLY SOULS THAT ARE “PERFECTED” ARE SUITABLE TO GOD AND GOD’S BEATIFIC VISION

PJM

 

[jlhargus]

Purgatory isn’t in the Protestant bible which exclude the deuterocanonical books.

The word purgatory isn’t found in the bible nor is the word trinity. Yet the concept is found in the bible. Even the Protestant bible without the deuterocannonical books. The Church calls it purgatory but it could also be called prison as the scriptures do mention a prison.

[Mt5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art **in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into Prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, Till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.]

[LK 12:58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, **as thou art in the way give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into Prison. 59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

[1Cor3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.] Passing as by fire would indicate an unpleasant event.

The above Mt5:23-26, Lk12:58-59 and 1Cor3:11-15, all speak of judgment and a temporary punishment from which one will come out. It can’t be heaven or hell both are eternal. No one wants out of heaven and no one can get out of hell. Purgatory is temporary for those who need some purification before entering heaven.

If Onesiphorus has died, as it seems Paul is indicating, since Paul doesn’t indicate Onesiphorus is with him. Paul would not only be praying for Onesiphorus’ family in 2Tm1:16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:] but also for the repose of the soul of Onesiphorus in 2Tm1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.]

**Mercy on that day, would indicate judgement, [Hb9:27 And as it is appointed unto men to die once, and after that comes judgment,] In closing the letter Paul does not memtion Onesiphorus but salutes his household. [2Tm4:19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.]

This would also indicate Onesiphorus is dead and Paul is praying for the repose of his soul. Indicating Paul believed in a temporary state (purgatory) other than heaven and hell. Prayer for those in heaven would be superfluous as they have no needs. Prayer for those in hell would be superfluous as they are beyond help. Jews still pray for their dead for eleven months after death.

[2Tm2:20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21 **If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, **made holy **, useful to the master and prepared to do any good work.]

[2Cor7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.] In grace we can cleanse ourself of impurities and be made holy, while on earth. Making use of trails and sufferings, doing penance, offering them up. If not then we will be purified by God’s great mercy, in purgatory.
[Mk7: 20 And he said, **that which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,] God judges the intention of the heart, we don’t carry a list of works into judgment. We are at our core being the soul (spirit).

[Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? 10 **I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.]

[Proverbs17:3 The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but **the LORD trieth the hearts.]

[1Cor3:14 **If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.]

[1Pt 4:17 For the time has come **for judgment to begin with the household of God and if it begins with us what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous man is scarcely saved where will the impious and sinner appear?]

[Mt12:36 I tell you **on the day of judgment men will render account for every carless word they utter]

 

[GKC]

Provided by Jon:

“There need not necessarily be a belief in an intermediate state/place to affirm the purgation of those who die under grace, in order to be cleansed to enter Heaven”.

Cr. Ratzinger - "Purgatory is not, as Tertullian thought, some kind of supra-worldly concentration camp where man is forced to undergo punishment in a more or less arbitrary fashion. Rather is it the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints."

Pope Benedict - “It is clear that we cannot calculate the ‘duration’ of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning — it is the heart’s time, it is the time of ‘passage’ to communion with God in the Body of Christ.”

Jon

All emphasis mine"

From PJM:

“IN OTHER WORDS IT IS A ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TIME OF PURIFICATION BECAUSE ONLY SOULS THAT ARE “PERFECTED” ARE SUITABLE TO GOD AND GOD’S BEATIFIC VISION”

C. S. Lewis, and selected Anglicans, would agree.