Sources please. If it is “many”, finding many sources should be easy.
Here’s one. The LCMS Calendar of Commemorations.
Jon
- Status
Here’s one. The LCMS Calendar of Commemorations.
K
Kliska
Guest
That was more a statement of fact from my position… one that acknowledges both sides of the issue of canon, so you’re right in what you say.
R
randomuser
Guest
You have trouble seeing a double standard? Someone at CAF arbitrarily decided, based solely (apparently) on Chick tracts and similar propaganda - most people don’t even know what Chick tracts are - that Constantine has been done to death. Meanwhile, a cursory review of the calls in to CAL for the first month of 2016 alone are Mary after Mary after Mary:
Why is not the method of applying the saving grace to Mary applied to the rest of us? (January 5)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34192
How does the Catholic Church see Mary and her role in the faith? (January 5)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34193
Did Mary experience physical discomfort on a daily basis the same way sinners do? (January 12)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34202
In the Magnificat, Mary states, “…my savior…”. A pastor told me this means that Mary was not without sin and had to be saved, as well. I wasn’t sure how to respond. (January 19)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34330
I could go on…and on and on…why hasn’t the topic of Mary been “beaten to death”? It’s probably the #1 most posted question and called-in question. That certainly meets the criteria for having answered it - again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
How many callers asked about Constantine on CAL in January 2016? That’s right – the goose egg. Zero. But, based solely upon Chick tracts - and by that criteria alone - it has been “beaten to death”? I’m sorry, but it’s a double standard. Many non-Catholics do believe Constantine founded the Catholic church, and I wish it could be as standard and textbook a topic in apologetics as Mary is. Do I have empirical proof to demonstrate what non-Catholics believe? No, of course not - there’s no such empirical data to provide. But I think it’s wishful thinking to simply ignore the topic and presume it will go away on its own, that non-Catholics are smarter than to trust “Chick tracts.” I dunno.
I understand CAF forum elders don’t want Constantine talked about. I will honor that request and continue to limit my mention of the topic.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Hi random. (Your last name wouldn’t happen to be Paul would it?You have trouble seeing a double standard? Someone at CAF arbitrarily decided, based solely (apparently) on Chick tracts and similar propaganda - most people don’t even know what Chick tracts are - that Constantine has been done to death. Meanwhile, a cursory review of the calls in to CAL for the first month of 2016 alone are Mary after Mary after Mary:
Why is not the method of applying the saving grace to Mary applied to the rest of us? (January 5)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34192
How does the Catholic Church see Mary and her role in the faith? (January 5)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34193
Did Mary experience physical discomfort on a daily basis the same way sinners do? (January 12)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34202
In the Magnificat, Mary states, “…my savior…”. A pastor told me this means that Mary was not without sin and had to be saved, as well. I wasn’t sure how to respond. (January 19)
catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-34330
I could go on…and on and on…why hasn’t the topic of Mary been “beaten to death”? It’s probably the #1 most posted question and called-in question. That certainly meets the criteria for having answered it - again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
How many callers asked about Constantine on CAL in January 2016? That’s right – the goose egg. Zero. But, based solely upon Chick tracts - and by that criteria alone - it has been “beaten to death”? I’m sorry, but it’s a double standard. Many non-Catholics do believe Constantine founded the Catholic church, and I wish it could be as standard and textbook a topic in apologetics as Mary is. Do I have empirical proof to demonstrate what non-Catholics believe? No, of course not - there’s no such empirical data to provide. But I think it’s wishful thinking to simply ignore the topic and presume it will go away on its own, that non-Catholics are smarter than to trust “Chick tracts.” I dunno.
I understand CAF forum elders don’t want Constantine talked about. I will honor that request and continue to limit my mention of the topic.
) I noticed earlier that someone mentioned “CAL”. At the time I thought it was a typo for “CAF”, but I see now that it’s a radio program you listen to – which is fine of course, I listen to stations you’ve presumably never heard of, and you’ve never told me I can’t, so I’ll extend you the same curtesy. 
But anyhow, I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I listen to the same station/program that you listen to.
L
Little_Sheep
Guest
Well, I think my original statement speaks for itself, but here goes - Anglican Tradition came out of the Catholic tradition. To fully understand what it is to be a member of the Episcopal Church, it helps me to understand the Church from which the Episcopal Church came (the Catholic Church).OK
And my friend, Just HOW to you mean that? The more specific you are; the more specific we too can be.
I’m NOT saying you’re wrong [at least not yet]; BUT I sure would like to better understand your position here.
God Bless you,
Patick
I also believe (and was taught by my 7th grade Ethics teacher) that “you can’t be a good Christian unless you are a good Jew.” He meant what I was trying to convey with my original post - that it’s important to know where you came from. And for someone like me (someone deeply interested in how humans seek and find God), it’s important to know how the Christian religions are connected and disconnected!
I will also add that I don’t know how you can know much about history at all without knowing at least a little something about Catholic Church history, which is a very important part of the history of mankind.
J
jmcrae
Guest
If you can make that connection, then how does it not further connect that the Episcopal Church was not that which was established by Jesus Christ? That in fact, to become joined to the Church established by Jesus Christ you have to become a Catholic?
It’s not only about answering “Where did I come from?” But also figuring out “Where am I supposed to be?”
If you know that you aren’t in the Church that Christ established, then shouldn’t you be asking, “Then, where is the Church that Christ established, and how do I get in it?”
L
Little_Sheep
Guest
Well, logically, if Protestant Churches come the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church was the first Church Christ founded, then Protestant Churches were founded by Christ. The lineage is pretty irrefutable.If you can make that connection, then how does it not further connect that the Episcopal Church was not that which was established by Jesus Christ? That in fact, to become joined to the Church established by Jesus Christ you have to become a Catholic?
It’s not only about answering “Where did I come from?” But also figuring out “Where am I supposed to be?”
If you know that you aren’t in the Church that Christ established, then shouldn’t you be asking, “Then, where is the Church that Christ established, and how do I get in it?”
Now, I understand that Catholics might not see it that way. But I believe there is both Christ and error in all of our churches, no matter their denomination. A lot of different things go into where and how an individual Christian worships, so I don’t think there has to be a one-size-fits all Church or a one true church. Christ’s short life changed the world. It changes us and changes us still. That’s what truly matters. His people are His church.
There are many reasons I worship as an Episcopalian. Some of the reasons are dumb luck (I’m cradle) and some of them are spiritual (the few mystical experiences I have had in my life tell me I am right where I belong).
I’ve certainly tried other ways to follow God, but TEC is where I grow most fully in my knowledge of God’s will for my life. And, imho, the differences between the Roman Catholic Church and TEC are barely noticeable - they are teeny tiny things that do not matter in any sort of ultimate way. Underneath those teeny tiny differences, I believe we seek and live and experience the Good News in a similar manner.
T
Tommy999
Guest
I am just starting to look into the ECF’s myself. Any books or articles on that would be appreciated.
To take a stab at your question, my best guess is that history is not considered important to some. I would say that God in the “here and now” and dealing with contemporary issues is much more important in some Protestant faith traditions than the ancient church past. I suspect that is the case even more for the newer faith traditions such as those who self-identify as non-denominational.
Perhaps that is why many of them refrain from singing hymns (for the most part) and only sing modern praise songs that were written in the past couple of years because some of them consider history to be outdated and pretty much irrelevant. This doesn’t apply to all Protestant faith traditions, like some of the older ones – just some of the newer ones.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Hi. Being a Catholic, naturally I don’t agree with that. However, I really can’t believe that I would agree with it even if I were Protestant.
J
JustaServant
Guest
T
Tommy999
Guest
Thanks
Just took a quick look. I like the timeline very much. Helps organize the events in their chronological sequence.
Does anyone know why the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement were not added to the canon if both were written in between other books of the Bible? Was their authenticity questioned? I’ve never read them before – never knew they existed. Were they considered gnostic or something?
J
jmcrae
Guest
The Protestant leaders departed from and cut themselves away from the Catholic Church. Their organizations were not approved by the Catholic Church.
Indeed, the founders of the Chuch of Scotland smashed the heads off of the statues of the Apostles at St. Andrew’s to signify that they were breaking away from the Apostolic Tradition and creating something new.
They certainly had no notions of being any kind of continuation of Christ’s Church, or successors to Apostolic authority. They were very much aware that they were starting a new religion that had no connections to the historical person of Jesus Christ.
J
JustaServant
Guest
From memory, I know one of the criteria they used was it had to be written by an Apostle. Another I believe was it had to be universally recognized.Thanks
Just took a quick look. I like the timeline very much. Helps organize the events in their chronological sequence.
Does anyone know why the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement were not added to the canon if both were written in between other books of the Bible? Was their authenticity questioned? I’ve never read them before – never knew they existed. Were they considered gnostic or something?
Both Barnabas and Clement are available online. Scholars disagree on the dates, but the mention in Barnabas of the destruction of Jerusalem appears to be referencing it as a recent event.
But it’s not just the ECFs. When you read the New Testament in the order of when they were written, you get a different feel in regard to the events.
Glad it helps Tommy.
L
Little_Sheep
Guest
Have you ever been a Protestant? How would you go about slipping into our skins?
L
Little_Sheep
Guest
Do you consider self-identified Catholics who don’t accept everything the Catholic Church believes to be Protestants?
Certainly TEC believes (and can show) strong connections to the historical person of Jesus and to the Church started in His name.
J
jmcrae
Guest
They are inside the barque of Peter. They might not like being in it, but they are inside.
The early Protestants did not do what lapsed Catholics or rebellious Catholics do. Keep that firmly in mind. The early Protestants said, We have no Pope. Not, he is wrong, no. He does not exist, they said.
They said that the man claiming to be the Pope is unauthorized and should not exist.
In so saying, they broke their branches off of the True Vine of Jesus Christ. They weren’t simply going in a different direction as the Jesuits or the Carmelites did. No. They were completely reinventing everything, from the ground up.
Your history began with King Henry VIII when he made himself Pope of the English Church.
S
Starwarsfan2
Guest
Anglican history began with Jesus the Messiah , as did RC , and Lutheran history
Keep the faith , Starwars
P
Peter_J
Guest
That’s setting an incredibly low bar for belonging to protestantism.
A compromise question: do you consider Anglo-Papalists to be Anglican or RC?
B
benhur
Guest
CS Lewis would pen, “the unhistorical, without knowing it, are usually enslaved to a fairly recent past”. I think the context was a written in context of papal history, or at least I found it in a history book on the pope written by a Jesuit.
- Status