S
SojournerOf78
Guest
Hey Dumspiro! Peace be with you.
Pray that we all have courage to stand up!
- Status
Pray that we all have courage to stand up!
D
dhgray
Guest
I have been discrening this thread. I have a question for you:
WHO ARE WE GOING TO FIGHT?
Do we fight the muslems, the Buddhists, the Athiests, Iglesia Ni Cristo, the followers of Witcka?
How about fighting those who do not follow the faith like the Baptist, Evangecials, the Chruch of Christ, the Pentacostals?
How about those who don’t pray like we do, do the LATIN’s attack the NON-LATIN Mass goers? What about those who left the Church, do we bring them back at knife/sword point?
Do we fight and kill everyone who does not pray the way we do (or should I say the way YOU do)?
WHO ARE WE GOING TO FIGHT?
Do we fight the muslems, the Buddhists, the Athiests, Iglesia Ni Cristo, the followers of Witcka?
How about fighting those who do not follow the faith like the Baptist, Evangecials, the Chruch of Christ, the Pentacostals?
How about those who don’t pray like we do, do the LATIN’s attack the NON-LATIN Mass goers? What about those who left the Church, do we bring them back at knife/sword point?
Do we fight and kill everyone who does not pray the way we do (or should I say the way YOU do)?
S
SojournerOf78
Guest
To be specific…groups that are persecuting and slaughtering Christians…I was asking why the Church doesnt stand up when other groups are slaughtering our people…
I wasnt talking about going into battle because people arent like us, I was talking about fighting to protect lives. There is a big difference.
W
writer_1018
Guest
Persecution will ALWAYS be with the Church and yes, Jesus taught that we should embrace suffering. Remember Calvary?
You speak of what the Jewish people did before the coming of Christ as justification for action today. Yet, aren’t we part of a new covenant? Did Jesus die less for the persecutor than the persecutee? “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Catholics going in and slaughtering the persecutors does NOTHING but create more bloodshed. Sure, “our people” are protected, but are we any better than the persecutors? Your alias here - “Sojourner” indicates that you believe Christians are not of the world, but of heaven. By giving into anger, we are giving in to the social mores of the flesh. “Protection” sounds like good justification, but aren’t the persecutors using the same argument? Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving (a priest from Sudan visited our parish and the collection was for his parish - perhaps something similar can be found in your area?) are the order of the day here. If you feel strongly about this, I’m sure there are various social justice organizations who are concerned with this topic that you could get involved in. If it is any consolation, after the persecutors’ deaths, God’s justice will not lay dormant.
(And isn’t eternity [one way or the other] the place we’ll spend most of our time anyway?)
You speak of what the Jewish people did before the coming of Christ as justification for action today. Yet, aren’t we part of a new covenant? Did Jesus die less for the persecutor than the persecutee? “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Catholics going in and slaughtering the persecutors does NOTHING but create more bloodshed. Sure, “our people” are protected, but are we any better than the persecutors? Your alias here - “Sojourner” indicates that you believe Christians are not of the world, but of heaven. By giving into anger, we are giving in to the social mores of the flesh. “Protection” sounds like good justification, but aren’t the persecutors using the same argument? Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving (a priest from Sudan visited our parish and the collection was for his parish - perhaps something similar can be found in your area?) are the order of the day here. If you feel strongly about this, I’m sure there are various social justice organizations who are concerned with this topic that you could get involved in. If it is any consolation, after the persecutors’ deaths, God’s justice will not lay dormant.
(And isn’t eternity [one way or the other] the place we’ll spend most of our time anyway?)
S
SojournerOf78
Guest
Well first off, Catholics going in and slaughtering the persecutors only creates more bloodhsed for those that are persecuting…but in turn DECREASES bloodshed of those being persecuted, so I dont see your point.
And yes, Jesus did say there would be suffering, but he never said to stand idly by while it happens and do nothing did he?
D
dhgray
Guest
Oh, I get you now. You are talking about a modern day Crusade and Inquisition. That’s a great idea. Let’s overtake the Army and Navy and move through out the world killing everyone who disagrees with our faith. YEAH, that should work. That’s how we spread Catholicism throughout the world in the first place. Maybe we can re-establish the Roman Empire…hmmm now where is Nero when you need him?
Let’s go after all who are persecuting Christians. Let’s start with the Democratic Party.
Let’s go after all who are persecuting Christians. Let’s start with the Democratic Party.
P
pnewton
Guest
Determining who we should go and put to the sword would be such a political question that we could never have consensus. You stated, “I was asking why the Church doesnt stand up when other groups are slaughtering our people…”
I agree the Sudan would be a good starting point, from a human perspective. But if God is going to use his church as an army to protect the innocent, what makes anyone here think that America is immune. Do we not stand here with the blood of millions of children on our hands? Sacrificing lives on the altar of freedom and convenience is no better than the offenses committed by Islamic militants. We should be a little more concerned about the beam in our own eye.
The only true victory will come through conversion of heart. We have a battle front both here and abroad.
I agree the Sudan would be a good starting point, from a human perspective. But if God is going to use his church as an army to protect the innocent, what makes anyone here think that America is immune. Do we not stand here with the blood of millions of children on our hands? Sacrificing lives on the altar of freedom and convenience is no better than the offenses committed by Islamic militants. We should be a little more concerned about the beam in our own eye.
The only true victory will come through conversion of heart. We have a battle front both here and abroad.
S
SojournerOf78
Guest
THe hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING
You are all the ones who praise Bush for his war on terror…I NEVER hear you guys whining about how the terrorists dont need to be wiped out by our Army and Navy and Marines because the terrorists should be given the gospel.
Its quite ironic…you cry about not hurting PEOPLE THAT ARE KILLING CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY NEED THE GOSPEL
BUT PRAISE BUSH BECAUSE HES KILLING TERRORISTS SINCE THEY ARE A THREAT TO THE NATION AND YOU MENTION NOTHING ABOUT THE GOSPEL.
You guys are amazing…I guess the only difference here is that the terrorism is affecting you, where as the slaughter of Christians in other countries isnt too personal, eh ?
D
dhgray
Guest
Where are you from? Why do you hate so?
The Christian God is a God of Love, who is your God that makes you hate so?
S
SojournerOf78
Guest
Why didnt you answer my question about your support for Bush killing terrorists and why you firmly back that but cry about the notion of Christian killers perishing???
The God I know wiped out the entire world in a flood except for 8 people.
Killed the entire Egyptian Army,
Swallowed up Moses’ adversaries in the earth.
Sent the Captian of the, get this, ARMIES OF THE LORD to slaughter 185,000 Assyrians in one night.
The same God that dropped Ananias and Sapphira…
The same one who is coming back with a sword to devour His enemies.
Im not all for bloodshed or anything, I started this thread talking about helping Christians who are undergoing persecution and being slaughtered…and Im the bad guy??? But you guys sit here and openly support the war on terror…hmm what exactly is the war on terror???
Its KILLING the enemies of our Country…and NUMEROUS innocent civilians in the process…So of course youre all for KILLING the enemies of our Country, but Im the guy filled with hate…
Houston, we have a problem.
D
dhgray
Guest
Yes I firmly back BUSH! He is a strong leader and set this country into a posture of self defense by striking at the enemy abroad, but only after the enemy drew first blood. We are hunting down the terrorists, but at the same time helping to liberate the civilians (yes muslem civilians) regain their freedom. However, I do believe that arbitary killing is wrong. You are advocating killing anyone who threatens Christianity.
PLEASE STEP IN TO THE NEW TESTAMENT and follow Jesus (a.k.a. the Prince of Peace)
I think the One who is comming back with a sword will be able to handle the situation by himself.But you started this thread with the title: “WHY DON’T WE FIGHT BACK?” Are you taking FLIP-FLOP lessons from John Kerry?
HELPING
KILLING
FLIP-FLOP
To this point, we are in agreement…but I think the problem is a little further west than Texas.
S
SojournerOf78
Guest
NO IM NOT…DONT LIE ABOUT WHAT I AM SAYING.
I HAVE ONLY SAID TO FIGHT AGAINST THOSE KILLING CHRISTIANS…I HAVE SAID THIS OVER AND OVER.
I guess in your estimation stopping Christian killers wouldnt be liberating the innocent??? Hmmm…why dont you rethink your logic there.
Oh you mean Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah???
I havent flip flopped on one thing, you apparently just dont understand what is being said here…
YES FIGHT AND KILL THOSE THAT ARE MURDERING CHRISTIANS…WHAT ARENT YOU UNDERSTANDING??? I have maintained this from the beginning of the thread…Ive never said to fight those that arent Catholic, I never said to fight those that are merely “opposed” to the faith…what I did say was fight against those groups who are SLAUGHTERING CHRISTIANS.
Once again I will clarify, youre all for killing Terrorists because they kill innocent people, I am all for killing those that murder Christians…
That makes us both supporters of military might in the protection of innocence…the only difference between us seems to be where our loyalties lie.
D
dhgray
Guest
BUT IF YOU WANT THE REAL REASON WE ARE GETTING OUR BUTTS KICKED:
I find it interesting:
ISSUE…Muslems…Christian America
Abortion…NO…YES
Homosexual Union…NO…YES
Sexual Dressing…NO…YES
Defending the Faith…YES…Too busy fighting each other
Teach the Children faith…YES…That’s the Churches Job
Take care of elderly…YES…Stick them in a nursing home
Support the Faith $$$…YES…10% (if I can afford it)
Take time to PRAY…YES…Too busy making money
Evangalize/Share Faith…YES…Can’t, might offend someone
UNITY IN FAITH…YES…Only if you believe EXACTLY what I do
STRICT LAWS…YES…Individual rights over the laws of God
Teach religion in school…YES…Seperation of Church & State
http://www.incommunion.org/pictures/Pogo.jpg
I find it interesting:
ISSUE…Muslems…Christian America
Abortion…NO…YES
Homosexual Union…NO…YES
Sexual Dressing…NO…YES
Defending the Faith…YES…Too busy fighting each other
Teach the Children faith…YES…That’s the Churches Job
Take care of elderly…YES…Stick them in a nursing home
Support the Faith $$$…YES…10% (if I can afford it)
Take time to PRAY…YES…Too busy making money
Evangalize/Share Faith…YES…Can’t, might offend someone
UNITY IN FAITH…YES…Only if you believe EXACTLY what I do
STRICT LAWS…YES…Individual rights over the laws of God
Teach religion in school…YES…Seperation of Church & State
http://www.incommunion.org/pictures/Pogo.jpg
D
dhgray
Guest
OK, let’s start in this country. Why don’t you go down to your local Pro-Choice clinic/office and start there. They are killing future CHRISTIANS. Since you are in CA, go up the the Sciencetology Church, they turn people away from Christianity…HEY, where are Evangecials and Baptists, they are turning people away from the Catholic Faith?
WHY DO YOU HATE “THEM” SO?
M
Mystagogy
Guest
Simple answer is you are counting “baptised.” They are not active.
I hear that Muslims are callling for Jihad. If that is “Pray that the God of Abraham win the victory.” Then I say, “Let’s ALL Christians and Muslims all get on our knees (or prostrate) and pray that the will of God be done.” We might incorporate various agnostics and others if we describe God as the Creator of the Universe.
But I suspect that getting 5.5 Billion persons interested in it would be difficult (even if we could notify the whole world) – after all, there’s the job, the kids, the lack of job, the elections, the car repair, the bank account, the Playboy magazine (or much, much worse) to be concerned with before The Judgment.
J
jennstall
Guest
I’m curious, what exactly are you doing about it? Are you turning in your enlistment papers tomorrow? The US and other militaries are out fighting the heathens as we speak so maybe you could put your money where your mouth is and join them.
F
FightingFat
Guest
Scary!
:ehh:
:ehh:
D
dhgray
Guest
SojournerOf78]
IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT TAKING ACTION http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon2.gif CLICK HERE
OR ARE YOU JUST TALK
IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT TAKING ACTION http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon2.gif CLICK HERE
OR ARE YOU JUST TALK
D
Deacon_Tony560
Guest
We are called to fight right here in the good old USA. The largest christian denomination in this country is Catholic. The second largest group of christians are Catholics that don’t practice their faith. Protestants are a very distant third.
The harvest is great, but the workers are few.
Deacon Tony
The harvest is great, but the workers are few.
Deacon Tony
A
Anne_Carmel
Guest
Thank you for your participation in this discussion. Since the level of discourse has deteriorated into shouting and general uncharitable banter, it is now closed.
- Status