WHY DONT WE FIGHT BACK??

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wcknight:
You can not justify attacking homosexuals or non-believers or even Satanists in a pre-emptive strike no matter how evil you think they may be or what potential danger they may pose.
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Hello wcknight,

Where did I say to attack homosexuals, non-believeres and Satanists? Please quote me. I have not done so. You are manipulating here.

If just nations attack a Nazi concentration camp where millions of Jews are being slaughtered in atrocity, to rescue them, is this a pre-emptive strike that the Pope, behind the protection of Swiss Guard snipers, would be opposed too?

If each of the Sudanies refugies running to avoid eniolation, as 400,000 of their countrymen have already suffered, had 200 Swiss Guard snipers (apiece) their ready to kill their oppressors to protect them, you bet there would not be any more violence in Sudan. As we see at the Vatican, overwhealming fire power has a way of making/keeping peace.
 
Sorry, you’re right I don’t see where you call for a pre-emptive strike or attack. That was implied by someone else in the crusades thread.

BUT it is as you say the Vatican use the “threat” of violence to protect itself, and it still does not go out of its way to pre-emptively prevent assassins. It probably could but it does not.

AS a rule the Church does NOT as a matter of policy call for its members to take up arms, swords or otherwise. Why that is, you will have to guess. My guess is because of the philosophy that it is trying to teach and because of the examples of Christ and the early Church.
 
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wcknight:
Sorry, you’re right I don’t see where you call for a pre-emptive strike or attack. That was implied by someone else in the crusades thread.

BUT it is as you say the Vatican use the “threat” of violence to protect itself, and it still does not go out of its way to pre-emptively prevent assassins. It probably could but it does not.

AS a rule the Church does NOT as a matter of policy call for its members to take up arms, swords or otherwise. Why that is, you will have to guess. My guess is because of the philosophy that it is trying to teach and because of the examples of Christ and the early Church.
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Hello wcknight,

Apology accepted. Thank you for the clarification.

Do you agree that the Pope called for Papal forces to take up arms, along with Napoleon’s French Foreign Legion to protect States of the Church from Garibaldi in 1867? Do you agree that from the fourth to ninetinth centuries (a great majority of the Church’s existance) the Church has had the “policy” of recruited a papal army and recruiting the help of neighboring armies to take up arms and protect Papal States?

States of the Church
Napoleon had at the end of December, 1866, withdrawn the small French garrison from Rome. It is true indeed that a foreign legion, composed for the most part of French soldiers and officers, was formed at Antibes to undertake the protection of Rome, but its position was nevertheless very critical. Garibaldi in the autumn of 1867 invaded the States of the Church with his insurgents. Then Napoleon once more sent a force from Toulon, which together with the papal army repulsed the forces of Garibaldi near Mentana, northeast of Rome on 3 November, 1867.

quoted from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/14257a.htm
 
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SojournerOf78:
Last I heard us Catholics are about 1,200,000,000 strong and there are around 800,000,000 Protestants. That makes up 1/3 of the population of the earth.

Why is their even persecution? Put together that is a huge ARMY!! If I was some dood in the Sudan, I wouldnt want to mess with a 2 Billion strong Army by martyring the Christians…So why arent they afraid of our numbers???

Oh maybe its because we dont really do anything and who is scared of as little sissy that welcomes persecution?..why do we act this way? Where did Jesus teach us to WILLFULLY accept persecution?? Didnt Jesus teach us to love our neighbor?? Why dont we protect eachother??

I keep running into this mindset that we just have to accept whatever befalls us WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO OVERCOME BY THE ABILITIES GOD HAS GIVEN US…its like a roll over and take it attitude among Christians.

The Jesus I read about in scriptures, the Jesus I know said …‘Now I say to you, he that has no sword let him sell his garment and buy one’…

What else is a sword good for other than combat???

So the question is…WHY DONT WE FIGHT?
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Why would we want to fight? The Bible says we are to love our enemies! The Bible says Thou shalt not kill!

Are you actually a Christian?
 
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Linnyo:
Why would we want to fight? The Bible says we are to love our enemies! The Bible says Thou shalt not kill!

Are you actually a Christian?
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Are you saying the the Church is in defiance to the will of Jesus in using Swiss Guards to protect the Church?
 
Steven Merten:
Are you saying the the Church is in defiance to the will of Jesus in using Swiss Guards to protect the Church?
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Eh…no! 😦 They have swords as a display of self defence (not worded well, I know). The bible says to put on the garments of praise, shield of rightiousness etc. as if we are going to battle but it doesn’t tell us to fight with anyone. The Swiss guards have a job to do. The original poster just wants an uprising (a bit like a Jihad). Rrrooaaaarrrrrrrrrr, let’s just kill everyone who opposes the RCC. They are all killing us so why not? :eek: RRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrroooooaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!!
Except it is only a small minority who cause such troubles. Most people just want to peacefully get on with their lives! 😉
 
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Linnyo:
Eh…no! 😦 They have swords as a display of self defence (not worded well, I know). The bible says to put on the garments of praise, shield of rightiousness etc. as if we are going to battle but it doesn’t tell us to fight with anyone. The Swiss guards have a job to do. The original poster just wants an uprising (a bit like a Jihad). Rrrooaaaarrrrrrrrrr, let’s just kill everyone who opposes the RCC. They are all killing us so why not? :eek: RRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrroooooaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!!
Except it is only a small minority who cause such troubles. Most people just want to peacefully get on with their lives! 😉
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Hello Linnyo,

Most people just want to (ignor the atrocity of hundreds of thousands Sudanies being slaughted and) peacefully get on with their lives?

You bring up scripture.

“Why would we want to fight? The Bible says we are to love our enemies! The Bible says Thou shalt not kill!”

I will add some scripture.

NAB MAT 5:39

But what I say to you is: offer no resistance to injury. When a person strikes you on the right cheek, turn and offer him the other.
In your understanding of scripture, when could a Pope or Vatican Swiss Guardmen kill and not be guilty of defiance to the will of Jesus?
 
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SojournerOf78:
So the question is…WHY DONT WE FIGHT?
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The true loss isn’t on the side of those being persecuted and killed, it is on the side of those doing the killing - they are not losing their lives, they are losing their souls, while those being killed for Christ are surely being rewarded for their faith and strength.

Its hard to swallow, I know… I often think about the misfortunate circumstances that happen to so many innocent people at the hands of murderers, rapists, etc… and its hard to accept, but trust in God, he knows better than us, and when he spoke in the Gospels, it was not in vain.

Peace,
Chris
 
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SojournerOf78:
Last I heard us Catholics are about 1,200,000,000 strong and there are around 800,000,000 Protestants. That makes up 1/3 of the population of the earth.

Why is their even persecution? Put together that is a huge ARMY!! If I was some dood in the Sudan, I wouldnt want to mess with a 2 Billion strong Army by martyring the Christians…So why arent they afraid of our numbers???

Oh maybe its because we dont really do anything and who is scared of as little sissy that welcomes persecution?..why do we act this way? Where did Jesus teach us to WILLFULLY accept persecution?? Didnt Jesus teach us to love our neighbor?? Why dont we protect eachother??

I keep running into this mindset that we just have to accept whatever befalls us WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO OVERCOME BY THE ABILITIES GOD HAS GIVEN US…its like a roll over and take it attitude among Christians.

The Jesus I read about in scriptures, the Jesus I know said …‘Now I say to you, he that has no sword let him sell his garment and buy one’…

What else is a sword good for other than combat???

So the question is…WHY DONT WE FIGHT?
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Unless we are all going to buy airline tickets to some remote nation and fight physically here is another way to support our brothers and sisters…

persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=ALL

Try to write one letter per week to a government and prisoner. They need our encouraging words!
 
Here is another way to help protect prisoners of conscience:
www.amnesty.org.

Aren’t the Swiss Guards the equivalent of the US President’s bodyguard? The Holy Father is the head of a state, and needs protection from crazy assassins just like any other.
 
Steven Merten:
Hello Linnyo,

Most people just want to (ignor the atrocity of hundreds of thousands Sudanies being slaughted and) peacefully get on with their lives?

You bring up scripture.

“Why would we want to fight? The Bible says we are to love our enemies! The Bible says Thou shalt not kill!”

I will add some scripture.

NAB MAT 5:39

But what I say to you is: offer no resistance to injury. When a person strikes you on the right cheek, turn and offer him the other.
In your understanding of scripture, when could a Pope or Vatican Swiss Guardmen kill and not be guilty of defiance to the will of Jesus?
Click to expand...
I think only in a case of self defense or in defending the vatican people against enemies.
 
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