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palmas85
Guest
Interesting. Then in what things was he literal if not this one? Any at all or were all of his sayings idioms?
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Kleary,
I’m not going to requote the pictures you posted because it screws up my browser, but they are pretty powerful when you look at one image like that next to the other.
Amen!
I’m not going to requote the pictures you posted because it screws up my browser, but they are pretty powerful when you look at one image like that next to the other.
Amen!
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palmas85
Guest
I’m still waiting on your learned reply.
Also, could you possibly explain to me why the issue of Hebrew was brought up?. If I’m not mistaken, the language that Jesus probably spoke was Aramaic or possibly Greek or maybe even Latin on occasion. True in Temple Hebew would have been used for the Torah readings, but for lessons and discussions it would not. Likewise at Passover, only the specific ritual texts would be used at the apporpriate times during the meal, not throughout the entire affair. Since Jesus’ discourse on His Body and Blood were not part of the ritual, Hebrew would not have been the language of choice for such a thing… Passover meals were and are highly ritualized things which follow certain specific rules and guidelines.Hoping on your prompt response
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kellie
Guest
Jesus said to take this and eat this all of you, this is my body given up for u, take this and drink this all of u, this is the blood of the new covenant…
That is where He told us to do it
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Tietjen
Guest
How could Christ have been any more literal Nevim? He repeated this twice. He said “TRUELY, TRUELY”. He let those who could not accept it literally to leave without clarifying it further. What in Heaven’s name, could he have done in order to explain things more precisely? Your denying this simply shows that you are either extremely ignorant or truly brainwashed. I’ll leave it to you to decide which. :nope:
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finn34
Guest
Taoist,
You are the first person I have run across who has asked this question. I have wondered about this very same thing for as long as I can remember. I asked once and got the same kind of answers you’re getting.
When you asked: “did Christ come up with the idea himself or was this a part of other religions in the area prior to Christ?”, all of a sudden I think I had an epiphany. Maybe the reason is because it sets itself apart from everything else, including all other religions; An act so unique that it stands entirely alone (and stands out in people’s minds) ?
btw, thanks for posting about the word ‘theophagy’. I never knew that.
You are the first person I have run across who has asked this question. I have wondered about this very same thing for as long as I can remember. I asked once and got the same kind of answers you’re getting.
When you asked: “did Christ come up with the idea himself or was this a part of other religions in the area prior to Christ?”, all of a sudden I think I had an epiphany. Maybe the reason is because it sets itself apart from everything else, including all other religions; An act so unique that it stands entirely alone (and stands out in people’s minds) ?
btw, thanks for posting about the word ‘theophagy’. I never knew that.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
In his book “The Love of God in Practice”, St Alphonsus Liguori writes the following…
“Oh God of love, what greater means could you have discovered to make yourself loved by us? It was not enough for you to become man, and to subject yourself to many of our miseries. It was not enough for you to pour out all your blood for us to die on a tree destined for condemned criminals. You were finally reduced to giving yourself to us as food under the form of bread; so that you could unite yourself to our inmost being.” (Adapted)
I wonder if there is any other god out there who would humble Himself like that.
Wow! I agree. Kleary, your post (#9) is fascinating. We “eat” the body of Christ to save us from the original sin when Adam and Eve “ate” the apple. Very enlightening.
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VociMike
Guest
Then why in John 6 did they dispute among themselves, saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Why did they say “This is a hard saying. Who can listen to it?” Why did Jesus ask if they took offense at His words? Why did many of them walk away? None of these things make any sense whatsoever if they understood Christ to be saying “You must believe in me. You must learn what I am teaching.” Apparently they didn’t even know their own idioms.
Just replace “eat” and “drink” in John 6 with “believe” and “learn” and the entire text becomes nonsense. Their reactions become incomprehensible. It is their reactions that prove that Jesus’ words were no idioms, they were literal, and they were so offensive that many walked away rather than listen to them. Just like today. To claim that His words were idioms is just a desparate attempt to deny the reality of what Jesus requires of us.
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tabcom
Guest
**
Eating human flesh originated with the priests of Baal, as they imitated the priests of Jehovah God - when they ate of the sacrifices of their altars (bulls, goats, sheep - Numbers 18:8-11). The word priest in Hebrew - chaldee is the word kahan. A priest of Baal was a kahan Baal developing into the later translation Cahna Baal and is the established word in our language for a devourer of human flesh, hence “cannibal” (kahanbaal).
The priests of Baal ate of the human sacrifices of their altars where upon it was said they called their gods down to incorporate himself in this sacrifice. Nimrod was called Bol Kahn (Baal or sun priest) which evolved into Vulcan, the Roman/Greek god of the underworld (hell). In mythology, Vulcan devoured his sons as soon as they were born.**
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Nevim
Guest
Most scholars would disagree, Y’shua did speak Hebrew, and why not He was after all a Jew. The common street language of the day was Aramaic, but not one Jew would not just speak Aramaic but Hebrew as well it is the Language of the Temple to this day. The Gospel of Matthew was written in Hebrew as testified to by your ECF inculding Jermone who spent 14 years in Israel before translating the Scripture into Latin. As far as John 6 is concerned SOME of the unbelieving ( as the text reveals), Pharisees that were merely looking for something to discount Y’shua as Messiah, As far as the rest of the Gospels new evidence points to Aramaic not Greek, after all we have Jewish writters writing from the land of Israel about a Jewish Messiah in Greek–don’t think so, and many scholars are seeing the same thing.
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Nevim
Guest
“Truely ,Truely” means I am not using an idiom ? Wherever did you get that idea ? You’re forgetting what an idiom is, you don’t replace the words with the literal meaning of other words, our country does this all the time. You never heard of the expression “I’ll make him eat his words” ? that’s an American idiom. You have to look at and address Duet 13:1-5 which you have yet to address.
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Nevim
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Brainwashed, no, not brainwashed. The simple fact is eating human flesh or drinking blood is against the Torah or commandments of God, if a prophet taught something other then the commandments he was deem a false prophet Yeshua would have disqualified Himself from being the Messiah if He taught such a thing. I understand how being raised in the RCC one could come to the conclusion you have therefore just who is really being conditioned ? I follow Scripture, not a religion. I am not here to defend a religion I am here to defend God’s Word.
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Nevim
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Yes you are mistaken, I am always surprise to hear this remark–the answer is Yeshua was a JEW ! Of course He spoke the scared langauge of Hebrew.I’m still waiting on your learned reply.
NAS John 19:20" Therefore this inscription many of the Jews read, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin, and in Greek."—Do we find the word “Aramaic” here ?
NAS Acts 21:40 And when he had given him permission, Paul, standing on athe stairs, motioned to the people with his hand; and when there was a great hush, he spoke to them in the Hebrew dialect, saying,
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Jennifer123
Guest
Hello-
Thanks for weighing in on this interesting thread. I have to wonder though if you participate in the Jewish Passover? Considering how important it is in the Jewish custom to remember how God released the Jews from bondage in Egypt, certainly God didn’t need to use an unblemished lamb to make His point? That Jews should eat the Passover lamb to remember God’s deliverance of the Jews.
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VociMike
Guest
You’re not responding to anything I said, because I never even mentioned “truly, truly”. Here’s what I said:
And once again I ask, if this was just an idiom, why did they dispute among themselves, why did they say “this is a hard saying, who can listen to it?”, why did many of them walk away? (the only time in all the gospels that such a thing happened, by the way) All that fuss over a simple idiom that just means one should acquire knowledge? Not hardly!
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Saint_Augustin
Guest
Cannibalism is for those who are eating dead meat but we are eating the LIFE.
He is the LIFE!
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven **and giveth life to the world. **
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Nevim
Guest
Hey no offense intended by that’s pretty lame.
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Nevim
Guest
Because they looked for ways of bringing Him down, so of the Pharisee intentionally looked for ways to trip Him up and accuse Him of wrong doing. Look here is the verse:
NAS John 6:64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
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Nevim
Guest
Hi Jennifer, yes I do participate in the Passover, oh BTW it is not a “Jewish” thing it is one of the festivals of the Lord…
NAS Leviticus 23:2 "Speak to the sons of Israel, and say to them, 'The LORD’s appointed times which you shall bproclaim as holy convocations-- My appointed times are these:
NET Leviticus 23:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'These are the LORD’s appointed times which you must proclaim as holy assemblies – my appointed times:
NKJ Leviticus 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
One other thing the Jews where not alone when they left Egypt, Gentiles slaves when with them…here is the verse:
NAS Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock. ( multitude means very very many).
Actually Christians are suppose to celebrate Passover as well as Jews. Eating a lamb is not like eating a person. So I am not sure of what point you are trying to make here.
Be Blessed
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Jennifer123
Guest
We don’t celebrate the Passover ritual, but the meaning of the Passover meal and the meaning of the eucharistic meal are related.
Jesus is called the “Lamb” by his apostle John before Jesus’s death:
The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” (John 1:29)
The next day John was there again with two of his disciples, and as he watched Jesus walk by, he said, “Behold, the Lamb of God.” (John 1:35f)
The title also appears in Acts 8:32, 1 Cor 5:7 (below), and 1 Peter 1:19.
"Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed."1 Cor 5:7
Jesus institued the Eucharistic celebration at the Passover before his death. There are a couple of scripture passages that tell of this supper but I’ll quote from Luke 22:
15 And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this *Passover *with you before I suffer.
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. (NIV)
Now, we understand the Eucharistic celebration as the Jewish people understand the Passover, that we are commemorating this event as if we are there.
For Jews, it is to remember and participate in the Exodus at Passover as if you are there, for Catholics, it is to remember and participate in the Sacrifice at Calvary as if we are there.
Pope Benedict XVI addressed this in a homily at World Youth Day in Germany in August 2005. “Jesus did not instruct us,” Benedict said, “to repeat the Passover meal, which in any event, given that it is an anniversary, is not repeatable at will. He instructed us to enter into his ‘hour.’”
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