A
antonivs
Guest
I don't understand why believing that the NT was inspired by God is getting trapped in a web. :confused:
- Status
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Did Jesus ever mention the NT as God’s Word? No, he didn’t. Who decided it so? Paul or the Church? If Paul why would a former Jew who apostated from Judaism, write a few books and decide that they are Word of God? If the Church, why should a Jew aknowledge that a Church which has nothing to do with Judaism exhibit that power? Does this answer your question?I don’t understand why believing that the NT was inspired by God is getting trapped in a web.
L
Lapell
Guest
Yeah, and I guess all books of the Tanakh appeared Moses’ lifetime, so if one or more books were not indeed written by him personally, it would necessarily be invalited, right?
Come on, Ben. In started with oral teaching in both cases, not with written sacred text. The Qohol came first in the OT, and the Church came first in the NT also.
I haven’t got caught in MY web, if anything. YOU are making it a web… like tyrants who fear to be dethroned. What a pity!
L
Lapell
Guest
Do you really care that much about God, Ben? What was the whole Tanakh written for, tell me? Why did God reveal Himself to Moses, and why when it happened did Moses prostrate to the ground? Why did Prophet Elijah cover his face when He felt the Presence of God was making Himself manifest? Abraham, Isaac and Jacob also prostrated themselves as soon as they recognized that the Presence of God was appearing to them. Why? Why did somebody or some people take the pain to write about them?
L
Lapell
Guest
Who said to YOU that the NT is not the Word of God? And, have you read the whole of the NT? If you did, did you do it prayerfully, conversing with your “Adonai” (if God is indeed your Lord in your eyes, of course…)?
L
Lapell
Guest
Is Elohim truly your God? Do you indeed try to love it with your whole heart, soul and strength, not merely try to formally do what God’s commandments ask you to do because it’s required and like it or not, you do it because you were told it’s your duty?
L
Lapell
Guest
I thought the Nazarenes, as you have called them, were Jews and a sect within Judaism at the time. Where do you see that Paul apostated from Judaism? He for one still considered himself to be a Jew. The “Church” (Assembly) was following a Jewish model, the Q-H-L (Qohol, maybe), which gave the name Qohelet, one of the books of Wisdom in the Tanakh (in the “Ketubim” part).
A
antonivs
Guest
It was the Church that decided so. Whether or not you agree with their decision is up to you.
C
ClementRome
Guest
The trinity is a complicated subject. However you are incorrect in this statement. The trinity is unity in one.How could three be one when the three are not the same? Luke says that Jesus appeared to the disciples for 40 days after his suffering on the cross, showing them in many convincing ways that he was alive in flesh and bone, eating and drinking just like any other man, until the day he was taken up to heaven.
When or where did he leave that body behind? Catholics have told me that Jesus as the second person of the Trinity in Heaven exhibits the wounds of the crucifixion. How can he exhibit the wounds of the crucifixion without a body? If the other two persons of the Trinity are without body, how could the three be one? So, there is no such a thing as unity in trinity. I am sorry to rain on your parade.
Ben:
They all have the same substance as each other, thus they are all fully God. Think of it like liquid water, frozen water, and gas water. All essentially the same in substance but different in character.
Or the sun also. The sun is the Father, the rays the Son, and the heat the Holy Spirit.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**I think I have told you before, that I don’t care who or when the books of the Tanach were written, as long as they were written by Jews for Judaism, not against. I have noticed you have pulled that twice on me. It doesn’t work.
With the NT is different. You guys are using a religious Jew to write against Judaism. It doesn’t work that way either.**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Why wouldn’t I? God has created the Jewish People for a special purpose, and that’s what the whole Tanach is about: God’s relation with Mankind through the Jewish People. And my care about God is free of any preconditions attached, as the reward of an afterlife, which is what moves Christians to care.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**At least I don’t do it with an eye in resurrection, which was Paul’s reason to serve. (I Cor. 15:32) Or under the condition of reward of an afterlife, which is the reason Christians use to serve. **
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Yes, I have read the NT even more than several times. And believe me,
God has nothing to do with the NT. He couldn’t. Too much Antisemitism, Greek Mythology and contradictions.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
It seems to me that Catholics have the Church as if it were God Himself. It even sounds idolatry.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
This that Paul still considered himself to be a Jew is not new. At the time of Elijah there were many Jews who had apostated from Judaism to worship Baal and still considered themselves Jewish. They were the “Jews-for-Baal.” Just like we have today “Jews-for-Jesus.” Paul must have been one of these. Elijah got so upset at them that ended up by slitting the throats of 450 of their prophets.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Much less complicated therefore is to accept the truth that God is absolutely One and Incorporeal at that. Jesus himself said that God is Spirit, and spirit is incorporeal. (John 4:24) Then, there is no logic that three could ever be one.
They don’t all have the same substance because one is in body. And there is no such a thing as “they” in talking about God. God is One and the only Lord. That’s also from Jesus himself in Mark 12:29. As you can see, you must either be with the Church or with Jesus, because the doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction to Jesus’ own words. **
C
ClementRome
Guest
“Before Abraham, I AM”
Also before his execution the Sanhedrin ask him if he is the Son of God. And He answers in the positive. Never once did he deny it.
Also Peter answered, when Jesus asked “So who do you say that I am”, and Peter answered “Your are the Christ, the Son of the living God”. Then Jesus answered in the affirmative and declared Peter to be the holder of the Keys and the Rock of the Church.
When I was saying “they” I had meant the character of each in the Trinity. Like when Jacob wrestled with the angel of God. Another ‘character’ of him. Or the burning bush. Or the angel in the fiery pit with Daniel. Genesis talks about God in heaven and God on earth, Genesis 19:23 ,Zechariah 3:1-2 (YHWH calling upon YHWH: “And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan”
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. – Zechariah 12:10
*"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations, and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. (Daniel 7:13-14) *
We must also remember that the Prophet Daniel predicted the messiah would come before the destruction of the temple. Meaning he had to have come before A.D. 70.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
A
anthony022071
Guest
We know about Jesus and what he taught – the gospel of God – from the written gospels.
The gospel of God is,of course,God’s Word. Jesus is both the teacher of God’s Word and he is himself God’s Word.
The Church. And Paul belonged to the Church.
Paul had been spoken to by Christ and had been taken up into heaven in a vision.
The Church has a lot to do with the Jewish religion.
C
ClementRome
Guest
What isn’t Jewish? THe sentence “Before Abraham, I AM”? Why did the Jews get so angry at him and wanted to stone him after he said that?
Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew.
The grammar structure that is being used shows he probably answered in the positive. Otherwise he would have no need to claim he would be in the clouds of heaven descending upon them, which is a God-like action and type of vision.
You sure about that? Peter went though alot of trouble in the book of Acts. Prison and beatings. The Pharisees confronted him in the book of Acts a few times. Acts 9:31 only talks about the Church ebing during a peaceful stage with less persecution. That dosen’t mean the apostles were scratch free though.
It might be. But either way the bible is showing different forms of the essence of God. Whether he be on top of Mount Sinai, the clouds surrounding the Ark, the wrestling angel and the angel in the pit with Daniel, the finger and hand that Daniel saw writing on the wall about the kings destruction, etc
So who is this Son of Man and Ancient of Days? WHo is this person who is given dominion, glory and an everlasting kingdom??
Yes, but Daniel does say, that before the Temple is destroyed the Messiah will come. Its quite explicit.
So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary - Daniel 9:25-26
- Status