Why fear purgatory?

[antonabe]

It sounds like purgatory is something to be avoided, but I don’t know where this teaching comes from.

Personally I am fascinated by St. John of the Cross, because I think part of what we go to purgatory to do can be done while here on earth, in the form of purgative contemplation.

I totally agree with you.We must have a gradual spiritual cleansing.God is the essence of Purity and how many of us with our Sins and lack of faith are qualified today to be in the presence of God.St John of the Cross says that just as much as gold and Silver are refined by heat the soul too undergoes a series of purging of our sins some on earth and some on earth as well as after death.He says suffering is the furnace of tribulation.One should not fear Purgatory if one has cleansed oneself of sin with pure repentance and fasting.Even if one is not totally cleansed a temporary period away from God still we reach that degree of purity is all that is required…Prayer for us by thise on earth will certainly shorten this period.

 

[Leapenstein]

The souls in purgatory cannot pray for themselves, they need us more than we can possibly know to help them attain heaven. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it’s a very important point.

From what I’ve read of true accounts, it is NOT a place you want to strive or settle for! The suffering required to purge us of our many offences against our God, if left unrepented, is IMMENSE beyond our earthly understanding. Not only that, but separation from God is enough agony in itself.

On a final note, I feel led to pray especially for those souls who have no one to pray for them specifically… such as a Protestant friend who died suddenly years ago… who will pray for those like him if we Catholics don’t…?

 

[InLight247]

Purgatory can be avoided. Read this:

ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/AVOIDPRG.TXT

 

[Alex_Di_Matteo]

I guess there are some of us who will go to great lengths to believe what we want, or what someone else tells us. As for pain, I see the application of fire causing pain in the literal sense, but eternity is timeless, and we are not dealing with a fleshy body coming in contact with literal fire. Hell on the other hand will involve our resurrected body as well as the soul. In the afterlife there will be no time, and our bodies will be spiritual ones… So, when someone tells me that you go to purgatory for years and years, I don’t accept that. No one has evidence of that, however that doesn’t rule out the possibility. That is why I believe the church doesn’t officially teach that, nor has a Pope spoken Ex-Cathedra on the subject.( as far as I know) The scripture teaches that perfect love casts out fear, and that those who fear are not perfected in love.1 John 4 :17 & 18. Trust in the Lord for He is just, don’t add to the truth of the word of God. The Bible is quite explicit about the torments of hell, it says nothing specific about the sufferings of “purgatory”. 1 Cor.3:11-15 speaks about fire but nothing about years or months or even days of suffering. We will suffer loss, that what it says regarding suffering. Maccabees talks about praying for the dead but does not mention suffering or fire. I don’t know how long it will take to be made ready to enter Gods Heaven, and neither does anyone else. I choose to believe the Scriptures and trust in Gods love for me. Why lose sleep over something that is uncertain/
Jesus tells us not to worry, because we can’t add to what we have or take away from it by worrying. Stay faithful and leave the judgment of your soul to the one who loves you infinitely.

 

[ErichtheCyclist]

To fear Purgatory is to fear a myth. There is no Biblical basis for this doctrin. Christ died once for sins, and this is all that is required. To believe that Purgatory, or anything like it, is required for further cleansing, is to diminish the work of Christ upon the cross. Holy Scripture gives us only two possible outcomes upon death of the body - Heaven or “Hell”, which is actually The Lake of Fire, wherein Hell & death will be thrown after the Great White Throne of judgement (read Revelations 19-22).

Christ did it all, and there is no other remedy for sin: “I am the way the truth and the life, nobody cometh to the Father but by me”-John 14:6. This does not mean “but by me and prayer” or “by me and Purgatory”, or “but by Me and the Church” or anything else. It is written that if “anyone come preaching a different Gospel, let him be accursed”, so we should be very careful about adding anything to Scripture, for Scripture is the only certain and truthful “tradition of the Apostles”.

Be blessed with an increased knowledge of Christ and His Word.

 

[Monica4316]

To fear Purgatory is to fear a myth. There is no Biblical basis for this doctrin.

ErichtheCyclist, there is Biblical basis. Also the early Christians prayed for the dead.

the evangelical position is new, it’s not historical and Christians have never believed it… (for example, the Orthodox do not, and they are the other ancient church)

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
matt1618.freeyellow.com/purgatory.html

Christ died once for sins, and this is all that is required. To believe that Purgatory, or anything like it, is required for further cleansing, is to diminish the work of Christ upon the cross. Holy Scripture gives us only two possible outcomes upon death of the body - Heaven or “Hell”, which is actually The Lake of Fire, wherein Hell & death will be thrown after the Great White Throne of judgement (read Revelations 19-22).

Christ did it all, and there is no other remedy for sin: “I am the way the truth and the life, nobody cometh to the Father but by me”-John 14:6. This does not mean “but by me and prayer” or “by me and Purgatory”, or “but by Me and the Church” or anything else. It is written that if “anyone come preaching a different Gospel, let him be accursed”, so we should be very careful about adding anything to Scripture, for Scripture is the only certain and truthful “tradition of the Apostles”.

Be blessed with an increased knowledge of Christ and His Word.

Also you don’t understand Purgatory…

it’s not for the forgiveness of sins, but for the effects of sin. For example, worldly attachments, etc. Also there’s something called temporal punishment…which is also an effect of sin. Purgatory doesn’t remove mortal sins, which must be forgiven prior to death.

Lastly, Purgatory exists because of God’s mercy and Christ’s death on the Cross, not despite it.

It’s only for those who are already going to Heaven, it’s not a “second chance” for those who didn’t repent on earth.

 

[Leapenstein]

ErichtheCyclist, there is Biblical basis. Also the early Christians prayed for the dead.

the evangelical position is new, it’s not historical and Christians have never believed it… (for example, the Orthodox do not, and they are the other ancient church)

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
matt1618.freeyellow.com/purgatory.html

Bravo, Monica4316! Those two links are FANTASTIC!

If that doesn’t thoroughly convince a good Truth-seeking Evangelical on the Biblical basis for purgatory, nothing will.

On a side note… I have many good friends who are Evangelicals. I love them dearly, but it grieves me how they seem to have forgotten their undeniably Catholic roots, and pick & choose–and sometime re-interpret–only the select Scripture passages that serve their modern theology. Purgatory is a big one… the Communion of the Saints and the real Presence in the Eucharist are others, to name a few. But that’s a whole other thread!

 

[spider]

Thank you for all your answers.

It seems most of us don’t really “fear” purgatory, but we believe there is suffering, even through feelings of separation, when there.

Alan

Alan dont worry because there is no Purgatory

 

[Shin]

Purgatory’s a declared dogma of the faith, Spider, it’s rather inescapably real.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Wow. So much excellent information. I’m busily reading it all. Thank you again for posting in this thread.

In my “dark night” experiences, I’ve received much healing, and many of the experiences I was reminded of were either not sinful on my part, or were sinful on someone else’s part – and I simply witnessed it or whatever. Thus, I suppose these were still issues I’ve had. But that did lead me to wonder a bit about purgative contemplation.

I’m thinking that the type of healing we receive during contemplation in our “dark nights” is different than the spiritual forgiveness we get from confession. For example, if I sin by deliberately ruining a brother’s property or reputation, I can go to confession, do my penance, and I’m forgiven by God. However, that doesn’t fix anything for my brother; he will have to live with the loss of whatever it was I broke unless I can fix it or replace it as good as new – or even compensate somehow.

Thus I am considering purgative contemplation, which nobody seems to disagree with being possible, as a way to cleanse us not just of the guilt of sin but its residual psychological effects. That would include emotional trauma we got when others sinned against us.

Maybe purgatory does something like that, too? Certainly it must be a bigger deal than just whatever venial sins there were after the last confession, which may have been on your last day.

Except, of course, those who believe purgatory does not exist.

For myself, my fear is that I will miss a chance to become more Christ-hearted so I concentrate on that, believing that in so doing I am seeking the Kingdom – and all the “other things” will be given to me as well. That way even when I have doubt, I still have a plan of action that cannot be thwarted by the deceit, tempting, and accusations of the enemy.

Alan

 

[JRKH]

Alan dont worry because there is no Purgatory

I’m quite certain that Alan will not be reassured by the assurances of one who claims to be catholic while denying a dogmatic Truth taught by The Church.

Spider, I hope you will prayerfully consider how hypocritical and dangerous to your soul, it is to call yourself catholic and then to “teach” that which is contrary to the Faith.
Christ says it is better that such a one have a millstone tide around his neck and be tossed into the sea…(Mt 18:6) than to mislead His little ones.

Christ also tells us to “Listen to The Church” or risk being excommunicated (Mt 18:15-18). The Church tells us that Purgatory exists.

Peace
James

 

[ErichtheCyclist]

But where are the common beliefs ascribed to the existence & nature of Purgatory explained in Scripture? Romans 8 clearly states that “there is thereforen NO condemnation” to those in Christ Jesus, and Ephesians says that we ARE (present tense) seated with Christ in the Heavenlies. The interest of the Roman Catholic Church in the observance of the Purgatory doctrine is of clear financial benefit, given the indulgences and mass card sold in this vein, but there remains no given Scriptural basis, apart from the above grotesquely construed references, which do not come close to delineating the common beliefs & practices. Where can I go in God’s Word to know that this is a valid Scriptural doctine?

 

[JRKH]

But where are the common beliefs ascribed to the existence & nature of Purgatory explained in Scripture? Romans 8 clearly states that “there is thereforen NO condemnation” to those in Christ Jesus, and Ephesians says that we ARE (present tense) seated with Christ in the Heavenlies. The interest of the Roman Catholic Church in the observance of the Purgatory doctrine is of clear financial benefit, given the indulgences and mass card sold in this vein, but there remains no given Scriptural basis, apart from the above grotesquely construed references, which do not come close to delineating the common beliefs & practices. Where can I go in God’s Word to know that this is a valid Scriptural doctine?

Did you by chance read the links given in the earlier posting on this thread?
Both links given use scripture extensively.
In case you missed it the post was number 106

Peace
James

 

[dailey]

Why fear Purgatory? No reason that I can think of.

However, purgatory should not be seen as a goal either. The Goal must remain heaven and to acheive that we must pursue heavenly perfection in this life. We must seek to be perfected in Love and not think, “Well I’m good enough to get into purgatory”.

Purgatory is the safety net for those who (like myself) have not achieved that perfection when they die. The purgation then completes the necessary purification.

Fr Corapi once said - And I paraphrase here - "Don’t aim for purgatory. If you aim for Heaven and miss, you’ll likely land in purgatory. If you aim for purgatory and miss, it’s a long long fall into the abyss.

Peace
James

I LOVE that!

 

[Leapenstein]

…there remains no given Scriptural basis, apart from the above grotesquely construed references…

Would you kindly share with this forum on what authority you base this statement?

 

[dailey]

Bravo, Monica4316! Those two links are FANTASTIC!

If that doesn’t thoroughly convince a good Truth-seeking Evangelical on the Biblical basis for purgatory, nothing will.

On a side note… I have many good friends who are Evangelicals. I love them dearly, but it grieves me how they seem to have forgotten their undeniably Catholic roots, and pick & choose–and sometime re-interpret–only the select Scripture passages that serve their modern theology. Purgatory is a big one… the Communion of the Saints and the real Presence in the Eucharist are others, to name a few. But that’s a whole other thread!

I agree! great links!

 

[system]

Personally, I don’t understand the cavalier attitude so many have towards Purgatory. The fact is, we do not have to go to Purgatory. Become a saint here - maybe a martyr! - and you will not have to go there, or will go for only a short time. It just seems wrong to take the attitude of, “Well, I guess I’ll keep offending God in minor ways while I’m here, but in the end I’ll go to Purgatory and it won’t be that bad.”

OK, it is private revelation and secondhand and from the Middle Ages. Still, the lesson stands: it is better to entrust ourselves to the mercy of God and work wholeheartedly for our sanctification than count on spending time in Purgatory. Otherwise it seems like we don’t care that we are offending God or we don’t really believe that He has given us enough grace to avoid Purgatory if we are faithful to it.