Why follow Luther, Calvin , and Wesley, and not Jesus Christ?

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Righteousone

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I was wondering why non-Catholic Christians don’t follow what Jesus gave to St. Peter, the church, the holy Catholic church. Since everything was Catholic back then (Early Church Fathers, etc…).
If Protestants KNOW this, yet they follow someone who instead married a nun (Luther married a Catholic nun, and he himself was a Catholic), why would you remain Protestant? Don’t you realize that if everything WAS Catholic BEFORE Luther, why not feel that Jesus made it that way?
And Calvin and Wesley started THEIR OWN churches, the Presbyterian and Methodist churches.
Why not become Catholic as it was in the days BEFORE these gentlemen decided to go off on their own?
 
I was a former protestant. (just went through RCIA) and to be honest, I had NO idea that everything was JUST catholic before Luther. I had NO idea Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. I knew he founded Christianity though.

I remember when my husband and I were still dating several years ago, we all had an “argument” about Catholicism. He, his brother and his cousin were all claiming that Jesus founded Catholicism. I thought they were just plain crazy!

After learning the truth, I thought to myself, “How could I not be anything but Catholic?”

So, I think lack of knowledge is a lot of the reason why many protestants practice their faith.
 
Righteousone said:
I was wondering why non-Catholic Christians don’t follow what Jesus gave to St. Peter, the church, the holy Catholic church. Since everything was Catholic back then (Early Church Fathers, etc…).
If Protestants KNOW this, yet they follow someone who instead married a nun (Luther married a Catholic nun, and he himself was a Catholic), why would you remain Protestant? Don’t you realize that if everything WAS Catholic BEFORE Luther, why not feel that Jesus made it that way?
And Calvin and Wesley started THEIR OWN churches, the Presbyterian and Methodist churches.
Why not become Catholic as it was in the days BEFORE these gentlemen decided to go off on their own?
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You know, Righteousone, I’ve told you before that I enjoy reading and responding to you. But, with all respect (and I do respect your faith), I’d like you to look back on your many posts here, then look yourself in the mirror, and decide honestly if you have been the kind of model for Catholics that would make it inviting to a protestant to even consider the Catholic Church. Even in this post, you in your invitation for me to become Catholic, take a pot-shot at Luther.
I am in my mid-fifties. I was raised Lutheran in a Lutheran pastor’s home. When you take that kind of type-by shooting at my faith since birth, it raises a feeling of defensiveness in me, not of openness.
I suggest to you that you will draw more flies with sugar than vinegar. You want me to consider RCIA? Tell me what’s right with your Church, not what’s wrong with mine.

I still luv ya, man. And Christ does too.

Jon

BTW, I don’t “follow” Luther. I follow Christ and him crucified.
 
perfectpeach said:
I was a former protestant. (just went through RCIA) and to be honest, I had NO idea that everything was JUST catholic before Luther. I had NO idea Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. I knew he founded Christianity though.

I remember when my husband and I were still dating several years ago, we all had an “argument” about Catholicism. He, his brother and his cousin were all claiming that Jesus founded Catholicism. I thought they were just plain crazy!

After learning the truth, I thought to myself, “How could I not be anything but Catholic?”

So, I think lack of knowledge is a lot of the reason why many protestants practice their faith.
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Good for you and God Bless you for coming to this beautiful Catholic faith. I think the problem lies with Protestants not knowing much about history. The history of the Roman Catholic church. I think they only want to get by on ‘the bible’ when there is so much more as evidence to this church. If they only researched history of Jesus and his church, I pretty much would think they would at least think about it and say…whoa…
 
JonNC said:
You know, Righteousone, I’ve told you before that I enjoy reading and responding to you. But, with all respect (and I do respect your faith), I’d like you to look back on your many posts here, then look yourself in the mirror, and decide honestly if you have been the kind of model for Catholics that would make it inviting to a protestant to even consider the Catholic Church. Even in this post, you in your invitation for me to become Catholic, take a pot-shot at Luther.
I am in my mid-fifties. I was raised Lutheran in a Lutheran pastor’s home. When you take that kind of type-by shooting at my faith since birth, it raises a feeling of defensiveness in me, not of openness.
I suggest to you that you will draw more flies with sugar than vinegar. You want me to consider RCIA? Tell me what’s right with your Church, not what’s wrong with mine.

I still luv ya, man. And Christ does too.

Jon

BTW, I don’t “follow” Luther. I follow Christ and him crucified.
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Jon, don’t be upset with me. Be upset with history and be upset with Jesus. Why is every non-Catholic Christian always upset at history? Get upset with Christ for choosing the Catholic church.
I only relay facts with history. Sorry if you think otherwise man, but it is truth and nothing more. Luv ya too.:hug3:
 
Righteousone said:
Jon, don’t be upset with me. Be upset with history and be upset with Jesus. Why is every non-Catholic Christian always upset at history? Get upset with Christ for choosing the Catholic church.
I only relay facts with history. Sorry if you think otherwise man, but it is truth and nothing more. Luv ya too.:hug3:
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Not upset with you. I’m not even upset. You’re not even getting my point. You know me by now. You know why I’m here. I’m not selling Lutheranism. I’m considering buying Catholicism. I’m just saying you’re not being a particularly good salesman. A good salesman doesn’t tell the customer he’s a jerk for not having bought his product before.

It is like those protestants that tell you that Catholics worship Mary, and the Babylon cr*p, and tell you you should convert because you’re goin to Hell. With a sales pitch like that, there’s no way you’re buying. I don’t want the Chevy dealer to tell me how bad Fords are. Tell me how good Chevys are.

Irrespective of your view of Lutheranism, tell me why I should be Catholic. Convince me without insulting what I’ve believed all my life.

Jon
 
Sadly to say, some who are following Jesus don’t do any better those who aren’t. This is not to say non-Catholic Christians are not following Jesus; they are!
 
Righteousone said:
I was wondering why non-Catholic Christians don’t follow what Jesus gave to St. Peter, the church, the holy Catholic church. Since everything was Catholic back then (Early Church Fathers, etc…).
If Protestants KNOW this, yet they follow someone who instead married a nun (Luther married a Catholic nun, and he himself was a Catholic), why would you remain Protestant? Don’t you realize that if everything WAS Catholic BEFORE Luther, why not feel that Jesus made it that way?
And Calvin and Wesley started THEIR OWN churches, the Presbyterian and Methodist churches.
Why not become Catholic as it was in the days BEFORE these gentlemen decided to go off on their own?
Click to expand...
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1 John, 2-19
 
JonNC said:
Not upset with you. I’m not even upset. You’re not even getting my point. You know me by now. You know why I’m here. I’m not selling Lutheranism. I’m considering buying Catholicism. I’m just saying you’re not being a particularly good salesman. A good salesman doesn’t tell the customer he’s a jerk for not having bought his product before.

It is like those protestants that tell you that Catholics worship Mary, and the Babylon cr*p, and tell you you should convert because you’re goin to Hell. With a sales pitch like that, there’s no way you’re buying. I don’t want the Chevy dealer to tell me how bad Fords are. Tell me how good Chevys are.

Irrespective of your view of Lutheranism, tell me why I should be Catholic. Convince me without insulting what I’ve believed all my life.

Jon
Click to expand...
Beautiful!
 
JonNC said:
Not upset with you. I’m not even upset. You’re not even getting my point. You know me by now. You know why I’m here. I’m not selling Lutheranism. I’m considering buying Catholicism. I’m just saying you’re not being a particularly good salesman. A good salesman doesn’t tell the customer he’s a jerk for not having bought his product before.

It is like those protestants that tell you that Catholics worship Mary, and the Babylon cr*p, and tell you you should convert because you’re goin to Hell. With a sales pitch like that, there’s no way you’re buying. I don’t want the Chevy dealer to tell me how bad Fords are. Tell me how good Chevys are.

Irrespective of your view of Lutheranism, tell me why I should be Catholic. Convince me without insulting what I’ve believed all my life.

Jon
Click to expand...
As has been mentioned elsewhere; one should not convert from but convert to. Conversion should not be a rejection of the past, but a growth from that base to the future.
 
perfectpeach said:
I was a former protestant. (just went through RCIA) and to be honest, I had NO idea that everything was JUST catholic before Luther. I had NO idea Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. I knew he founded Christianity though.

I remember when my husband and I were still dating several years ago, we all had an “argument” about Catholicism. He, his brother and his cousin were all claiming that Jesus founded Catholicism. I thought they were just plain crazy!

After learning the truth, I thought to myself, “How could I not be anything but Catholic?”

** So, I think lack of knowledge is a lot of the reason why many protestants practice their faith.**
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Game, Set, Match!
 
I’d like to know why people would prefer Luther, Calvin, Wesley, et al. to Christ and His Bride.

Righteousone, I understand what you’re trying to say and I applaud you for your sincerity. I’d like to take a second to point to the non-Catholics on the thread that what he says and what I will say may sound arrogant, but it is the truth. I can only speak for myself, but I have always believed that if I have the truth about something and I don’t share it with others, then I am not helping anyone.

Christ only founded ONE Church;)

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew
 
JonNC said:
Not upset with you. I’m not even upset. You’re not even getting my point. You know me by now. You know why I’m here. I’m not selling Lutheranism. I’m considering buying Catholicism. I’m just saying you’re not being a particularly good salesman. A good salesman doesn’t tell the customer he’s a jerk for not having bought his product before.

It is like those protestants that tell you that Catholics worship Mary, and the Babylon cr*p, and tell you you should convert because you’re goin to Hell. With a sales pitch like that, there’s no way you’re buying. I don’t want the Chevy dealer to tell me how bad Fords are. Tell me how good Chevys are.

Irrespective of your view of Lutheranism, tell me why I should be Catholic. Convince me without insulting what I’ve believed all my life.

Jon
Click to expand...
Jon seriously man, Jesus really did start the Catholic church. If everything you read, the early church fathers, etc…everything was Catholic back then. That goes to show you that Jesus wanted the Catholic church.
It is hard for one who isn’t Catholic to just start thinking in a Catholic way, but honestly man, Jesus did, after my research for 12 years start the Catholic church.
 
Righteousone said:
I was wondering why non-Catholic Christians don’t follow what Jesus gave to St. Peter, the church, the holy Catholic church. Since everything was Catholic back then (Early Church Fathers, etc…).
If Protestants KNOW this, yet they follow someone who instead married a nun (Luther married a Catholic nun, and he himself was a Catholic), why would you remain Protestant? Don’t you realize that if everything WAS Catholic BEFORE Luther, why not feel that Jesus made it that way?
And Calvin and Wesley started THEIR OWN churches, the Presbyterian and Methodist churches.
Why not become Catholic as it was in the days BEFORE these gentlemen decided to go off on their own?
Click to expand...
Luther stood up for what he believed - and he obviously did not believe that priests must be celibate (actually they weren’t either when Catholicism was founded, so go figure why you priests can’t be married today). He also was against the sales of indulgendes the Church had back then - was he wrong there too?

Also, it’s good for people to stand up to what they believe is wrong. If they didn’t the Catholic church would still be killing people for not doing things “their way” (inquisition). Were the young (and adult) victims wrong to come forward against their sexual predators in the CC? I think not.

You may say these were the mistakes of men and not the church, but you can’t say for sure CC figures (popes, bishops) haven’t screwed up and not followed as God wished either - and what they did formed how the church is today. So, I do not believe the church is always right. I believe when there is a wrong (or people believe there is a wrong) they should stand up for what is right to them.

We don’t know the church was how Jesus wanted it - even before the reformation. The Bible was finally put together 3 centuries after Christ, and there have been many “changes” by Catholic figures. We can not be sure that is what Jesus wanted - and the argument that everything that comes from the church is from the Holy Spirit doesn’t hold up when popes and bishops were (or at least supporting) murder of those different from them, selling forgiveness for sins, and covering up sexual abuse from priests by moving them so they can do it to other children and telling everyone to keep their mouths shut so the CC doesn’t look bad. Where is what God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit wanted in THAT?!?!
 
I’m a Methodist, but I’ve never “followed” John Wesley anywhere. In fact, the Covenant Prayer that Wesley wrote and Methodists use every New Year makes it pretty plain who we are to follow:

I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed for thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

Methodists “follow” Wesley? And Lutherans “follow” Luther? Give us all a break.
 
O.S.Luke said:
I’m a Methodist, but I’ve never “followed” John Wesley anywhere. In fact, the Covenant Prayer that Wesley wrote and Methodists use every New Year makes it pretty plain who we are to follow:

I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed for thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

Methodists “follow” Wesley? And Lutherans “follow” Luther? Give us all a break.
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Sorry, but before the Reformers, THERE WERE NO PROTESTANTS LIKE YOURSELF. Everyone WAS CATHOLIC.
Calvin fell under the writings of the NT Translation by Eramus and the writings of Luther. In fact, did you know that before Calvin became a Calvinist, he was Lutheran? Luther and Calvin contradicted themselves because they claimed to use the bible only, then went on to write creeds in ADDITION to the bible.
1.) Calvinism is a system of false doctrine that is taught in most Evangelical denominations.
2.) There are five major points of Calvinism. The five points are known by the acronymT.U.L.I.P.

NONE ARE TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE
All 5 points must be accepted or rejected as a unit. Refute any one element and the whole system fails. (Domino effect).
The Sinner’s prayer **is not in the bible and won’t save you.
**It is a false doctrine that developed from Calvinism and was first practiced less than fifty years ago.

Does this sound like something sent from Christ? No it doesn’t because it isn’t.
 
Pinkyyy said:
Luther stood up for what he believed - and he obviously did not believe that priests must be celibate (actually they weren’t either when Catholicism was founded, so go figure why you priests can’t be married today). He also was against the sales of indulgendes the Church had back then - was he wrong there too?

Also, it’s good for people to stand up to what they believe is wrong. If they didn’t the Catholic church would still be killing people for not doing things “their way” (inquisition). Were the young (and adult) victims wrong to come forward against their sexual predators in the CC? I think not.

You may say these were the mistakes of men and not the church, but you can’t say for sure CC figures (popes, bishops) haven’t screwed up and not followed as God wished either - and what they did formed how the church is today. So, I do not believe the church is always right. I believe when there is a wrong (or people believe there is a wrong) they should stand up for what is right to them.

We don’t know the church was how Jesus wanted it - even before the reformation. The Bible was finally put together 3 centuries after Christ, and there have been many “changes” by Catholic figures. We can not be sure that is what Jesus wanted - and the argument that everything that comes from the church is from the Holy Spirit doesn’t hold up when popes and bishops were (or at least supporting) murder of those different from them, selling forgiveness for sins, and covering up sexual abuse from priests by moving them so they can do it to other children and telling everyone to keep their mouths shut so the CC doesn’t look bad. Where is what God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit wanted in THAT?!?!
Click to expand...
Boy have you got all of your information wrong! This is the problem with most non-Catholics is WHERE and HOW they get their information…and before the priest scandal, what happened 2,000 years before that people? Are we skipping over 2,000 years of an unbroken link from Christ given to St. Peter? The Catholic church is still here isn’t it and will remain so as Jesus said.
Jesus also said there will be good and evil in his church and not all members will go to heaven. So, as much as you and others would like us to disappear, we ain’t going…
 
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