Why God allowed gays to born?

[Michael_Allen]

If our first parents were not gay, where could a “gay” gene come from?

Science would appear to show that new genes come from mutations of old ones. If the mutation offers some advantage then it survives. If it doesn’t then it won’t. It’s possible that the expression of feminine traits in men can carry an advantage - perhaps greater nurturing, greater social adhesion of the group. It perhaps only becomes an evolutionary disadvantage if more extreme behaviours show, but they are probably part of a continuum with more moderate feminised behaviour having some advantage.

However, sexuality is almost certainly multifactoral - some genetic, some conditions in the uterus (which we know know switches genes on or off - so called “epigenetics”), some upbringing, some unknown, etc. Certainly we see homosexual behaviour in very many species, so it is part of the “natural” ranges of animal behaviour (not that natural necessarily means good). It seems there must be some advantage to it, at least in its milder expression.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Michael
**
Certainly we see homosexual behaviour in very many species, so it is part of the “natural” ranges of animal behaviour (not that natural necessarily means good). It seems there must be some advantage to it, at least in its milder expression.**

It is found, but not as a gene, or as a natural part of animal behavior. For example, it is found among rats when they are living in overcrowded conditions. That has to do with envronment, not genes.

If there is an advantage to that, I don’t see it. Certainly the decision to have sex with a member of the same specie does not contribute to the survival of that specie, since there are no offspring…

 

[Slowride]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

Gay are getting killed everyday, they are the most hated group on earth at this age,

Don’t tell me that gays choose to be gays because this is STUPID! I know that most Catholics don’t think that but the evangelicals do! I can’t imagine that guy in the middle East in Iran woke up one day and thought “I wanna people to hate me, I wanna suffer, I wanna be killed, hmmm oh I found it, I can turn gay!!!”

Also, some people say that gay sex is wrong, what about the fact that sisters and brothers were having sex together (sons and daughters of Adam and Eve) and that was OKAY!!

Saying that same sex marriage is WRONG!! Why? Why two men or women in love can’t be together, I have gay friends and two of them are couples, the love that I see in them is stronger and greater than the love my parents have. They love each other and stand beside each other and yet they can’t get married, While Britney Spears got married for about 70 days and that was okay, that was marriage. When gay men are couple for more than 30 years and yet, that is not marriage.

Sorry guys if I sound angry, but I DO NOT see one reason to treat LGBT people the way they’ve been treated, and yet, God created them and now he is punishing them? WHY?

The same reason wy he allowed anyone to be born.

 

[Moore11]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

Gay are getting killed everyday, they are the most hated group on earth at this age, What? You are doing a huge disservice to those who are actually persecuted. Shame on you.

Don’t tell me that gays choose to be gays because this is STUPID!Your argument is that it is stupid. Ok. Not logical though. I know that most Catholics don’t think that but the evangelicalsWho are the evangelicals? do! I can’t imagine that guy in the middle East in Iran woke up one day and thought "I wanna people to hate me, I wanna suffer, I wanna be killed, hmmm oh I found it, I can turn gay!!!"Or be christian…

Also, some people say that gay sex is wrong, what about the fact that sisters and brothers were having sex together (sons and daughters of Adam and Eve) and that was OKAY!! If you don’t see the difference then you don’t know God.

Saying that same sex marriage is WRONG!! Why? Why two men or women in love can’t be together, I have gay friends and two of them are couples, the love that I see in them is stronger and greater than the love my parents have.? Ok all I got from that is you had bad parents. A man can love his daughter should they get married? They love each other and stand beside each other and yet they can’t get married, While Britney Spears got married for about 70 days and that was okayWhy do you think that is ok?, that was marriage. When gay men are couple for more than 30 years and yet, that is not marriage.

Sorry guys if I sound angry, but I DO NOT see one reason to treat LGBT people the way they’ve been treated, and yet, God created them and now he is punishing them? WHY?

You are making absolutely NO sense. By your logic we SHOULD have incestuous marriages too. right?

Repent and turn to the Gospel.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

There is no gay gene. If there is, prove it.

God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

If our first parents were not gay, where could a “gay” gene come from?

Where could CAIS come from? Where could cystic fibrosis come from? Where could hereditary diabetes come from? Where could…

 

[Diana_Catherine]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

Gay are getting killed everyday, they are the most hated group on earth at this age,

Don’t tell me that gays choose to be gays because this is STUPID! I know that most Catholics don’t think that but the evangelicals do! I can’t imagine that guy in the middle East in Iran woke up one day and thought “I wanna people to hate me, I wanna suffer, I wanna be killed, hmmm oh I found it, I can turn gay!!!”

Also, some people say that gay sex is wrong, what about the fact that sisters and brothers were having sex together (sons and daughters of Adam and Eve) and that was OKAY!!

Saying that same sex marriage is WRONG!! Why? Why two men or women in love can’t be together, I have gay friends and two of them are couples, the love that I see in them is stronger and greater than the love my parents have. They love each other and stand beside each other and yet they can’t get married, While Britney Spears got married for about 70 days and that was okay, that was marriage. When gay men are couple for more than 30 years and yet, that is not marriage.

Sorry guys if I sound angry, but I DO NOT see one reason to treat LGBT people the way they’ve been treated, and yet, God created them and now he is punishing them? WHY?

First of all the best and most safest place a homosexual person could be is in the Catholic church because God does love him and also I read your comments about the OT and the violence of those times. Times were different then and if you read you will see God waited a long time and gave people many chances to change their ways. Hundreds of years. God is a loving God but he is also a just God who gave us choices and with our choices come either reward or consequence. That didn’t change when Jesus came. Jesus came to take our sins upon himself and take our punishment and teach us to love one another.

And that is what we are to do, even love homosexuals. No one is to hate homosexuals. Every person is to be treated with dignity but God is like a parent who knows what is best for a child. The child doesn’t understand why the parent won’t let him do what is harmful but the parent only always has the child’s best interest at heart and that is how it is for homosexuals and all of us when it comes to sin. God says no because he loves us and knows it would bring harm.

Also as far as brothers and sisters together back in the OT, there wasn’t the population of today and genes had not progressed to the point they are today which when people with genes very close cause many genetic disabilities.

Lastly, if love was the only basis for marriage, we could marry anyone or anything but there is more to marriage than love. It is meant, and can easily be seen biologically, for procreation, companionship and to bring glory to God.

I think if you wait a couple of years after marriage is redefined you will see a lot more than homosexual marriages. It is already starting. People marrying pets, themselves and things.

 

[Moore11]

I read your comments about the OT and the violence of those times. Times were different then.

I urge you to take a good hard look at the 20th century. And the 1st 13 years of this one…

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I urge you to take a good hard look at the 20th century. And the 1st 13 years of this one…

I see what you are saying and trust me I have had a look at it and unfortunately it is not too pretty. Pretty bad, I agree. I guess I was understanding the OP to be talking about God’s judgment on OT people. He had another post where he said:

, but all what I can see, is an angry, homophobic God who was killing and destroying cities and people and then he come in human look talking about love and passion and accepting others!!, it doesn’t fit. I wish if the old testament wasn’t part of the bible, but I can’t accept book like that with bloody murders and killing kids and taking virgins to the isreali men and yet, you saying he is LOVE. if that is love, than I don’t want it.

so what I was referring to was God dealt differently at that time because the culture was different. It was a way God needed to use to deal with the corruption of the time. I didn’t mean that sin or peoples violence has changed.

 

[Sister_Terese]

I bolded a section of your quote saying that Jesus preached love, passion, accepting others. He certainly did! So true! However, and this always seems to be forgotten. Jesus never wanted people to live permanently in their sin. The woman about to get stoned for adultery…He certainly forgave her, but He told her to “go and sin no more.” Jesus did not say “Go and continue your former lifestyle.”

Your comment that being homosexual is not a choice…that people are born that way, that people know at a young age that they were always that way. You are discounting something very important. Granted, I am not sure if this is true but it certainly is plausible. After a child is born but during a very young age–an age where most people do not remember events (before age 4 I think is a safe assumption), there certainly could have been an environment where children we raised without solid male and female role models and with confusing gender messages. Or the child could have been abused (sexually or otherwise) and not remember it. So those are two post-birth examples.

My husband’s brother is SSA. Husband and his other brother are not. We have often pondered why youngest brother is SSA and the two older ones are not. Was there a difference in how they were raised? Turns out that with the last child, MIL decided to return to work. She had her mother-- a very ill-tempered, cranky and unaffectionate woman as my husband recall–watch this son during his early years. FIL was busy changing careers, so he was often not home. Gender roles were already sort of weird in this family. MIL is very domineering, sharp-tongued and not terrible feminine and didn’t like typical girl things (make-up, hair, clothes, nails). FIL was rather passive and prissy–enjoyed spending hours in the bathroom primping and very into his appearance. Could this early message affect the youngest son? Sure. Would he remember it? No.

Remember, Catholicism exists for the betters on the person, not the reverse. I think you are wanting something that cannot exist–approval for a certain lifestyle. God gave everyone crosses. I’m sure my son didn’t want to be born with autism. I know I didn’t want him born with autism. Why did God saddle him with this condition? Don’t know, but God knows why and I trust His answer.

Statistically, I just read an article discussing scientific studies which were done on twins and homosexuality. (I’ll try to find it again to provide the cite information.) Basically, in these various studies, it was determined that among twins (regardless if they were fraternal or identical) homosexual tendencies were 16% to 30% as a result of possible genetic links, HOWEVER, they also determined that between 52% and 69% were due to purely environmental issues (family home environment, possible abuse, traumatic experiences, etc.). So, even science is saying that the theory that genetics plays a major role in whether a person is born homosexual is slim. And like you said, we all have our Crosses. We all are called to live holy and pure lives regardless of our state in life. That many people have difficulty with purity and chastity only proves that concupiscence (lust) is rightfully one of the 7 deadly sins.

 

[CopticChristian]

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

Gay are getting killed everyday, they are the most hated group on earth at this age,

Don’t tell me that gays choose to be gays because this is STUPID! I know that most Catholics don’t think that but the evangelicals do! I can’t imagine that guy in the middle East in Iran woke up one day and thought “I wanna people to hate me, I wanna suffer, I wanna be killed, hmmm oh I found it, I can turn gay!!!”

Also, some people say that gay sex is wrong, what about the fact that sisters and brothers were having sex together (sons and daughters of Adam and Eve) and that was OKAY!!

Saying that same sex marriage is WRONG!! Why? Why two men or women in love can’t be together, I have gay friends and two of them are couples, the love that I see in them is stronger and greater than the love my parents have. They love each other and stand beside each other and yet they can’t get married, While Britney Spears got married for about 70 days and that was okay, that was marriage. When gay men are couple for more than 30 years and yet, that is not marriage.

Sorry guys if I sound angry, but I DO NOT see one reason to treat LGBT people the way they’ve been treated, and yet, God created them and now he is punishing them? WHY?

Break,

It is wrong to hurt anyone. Ask yourself why Homosexuals cause such harm to themselves? They have a high rate of mental illness, high rate of sucide, substance abuse and other maladies…why does this LGBT do such harm to themselves?

psychcentral.com/lib/2011/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/

His team looked at rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.
Four percent had a depressive episode in the last week, compared to two percent of heterosexual people. The rate of alcohol dependence was ten percent versus five percent, and for self-harming it was nine percent versus five percent.

The proportion of homosexual people who described themselves as being fairly or very happy was 30 percent, versus 40 percent for heterosexual people.

Dr. Chakraborty believes the findings are “very worrying.” He said, “This study is the first time the mental health and well-being of gay, lesbian and bisexual people has been examined in a random sample of the population.

“Our study confirms earlier work carried out in the UK, USA and Holland which suggests that non-heterosexual people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse and self-harm than heterosexual people.”

traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02rStatistcs.html

• 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).
• 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).
• Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film “The Castro”, one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to “cruisy areas” and have anonymous sex.
• 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).
• Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, “Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities” (10).
• Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, “30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals” (10).
• 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10).

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1502263/posts

The Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects
Catholic Apologetics International ^
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 2:03:29 AM by Exton1
The Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects Catholic Apologetics International

 

[CopticChristian]

Guys, I’m done with this drama, I tried many times to understand your God, but I couldn’t.

He destroyed Sadom for the anal sex, but yet, he did NOTHING for the two daughters who had sex with their father!!!

I’m sorry guys, I respect you, each one of you, you’ve been so welcoming and so so nice to me and I can not deny that, but yet, your God is different, I tried and tried and tried to understand him, but all what I can see, is an angry, homophobic God who was killing and destroying cities and people and then he come in human look talking about love and passion and accepting others!!, it doesn’t fit. I wish if the old testament wasn’t part of the bible, but I can’t accept book like that with bloody murders and killing kids and taking virgins to the isreali men and yet, you saying he is LOVE. if that is love, than I don’t want it.

Break,

English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspellings.

You appear to have “homophobic” under control.

 

[CopticChristian]

Where could CAIS come from? Where could cystic fibrosis come from? Where could hereditary diabetes come from? Where could…

Dakota,

Careful with the genetic theory. It becomes a slippery slope. Imagine that someday a gene is discovered that is linked to gay and that gene also has links to a form of deadly disease…then you will have genetic counselors in the secular world testing for this gene to abort those babies…

I believe, doubt that there will ever be any link to genetics…

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Guys, I’m done with this drama,** I tried many times to understand your God, but I couldn’t.**
QUOTE]

Your religion states that you are a Christian. That would be your God too.

Also, from my understanding of Catholic teaching, it isn’t a sin to be gay. The sin comes from acting on those feelings. Having sex with the same sex is the sin.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Break,

It is wrong to hurt anyone. Ask yourself why Homosexuals cause such harm to themselves? **They have a high rate of mental illness, high rate of sucide, substance abuse and other maladies…**why does this LGBT do such harm to themselves?

psychcentral.com/lib/2011/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/

traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02rStatistcs.html

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1502263/posts

I have a feeling that for chaste gays it would also be a bit higher than normal, of course that would be a minority in an already small minority making it impossible to acquire a sufficient amount for a study.

Dakota,

Careful with the genetic theory. It becomes a slippery slope. Imagine that someday a gene is discovered that is linked to gay and that gene also has links to a form of deadly disease…then you will have genetic counselors in the secular world testing for this gene to abort those babies…

I believe, doubt that there will ever be any link to genetics…

I wasn’t necessarily saying his conclusion is wrong, merely his means of arriving at the conclusion

 

[Sister_Terese]

TheBreak;10520259:

Guys, I’m done with this drama,** I tried many times to understand your God, but I couldn’t.**

QUOTE]

Your religion states that you are a Christian. That would be your God too.

Also, from my understanding of Catholic teaching, it isn’t a sin to be gay. The sin comes from acting on those feelings. Having sex with the same sex is the sin.

Correct! And, the other thing that often gets forgotten is that ALL Catholics are called to live chastely regardless of their state in life. Married couples are to live chastely. Having sexual relations with someone who is not your spouse is a mortal sin just like a homosexual act is considered. Our society has become so sex-saturated in the last 60 years that to even suggest the one reel in their need for instant gratification is almost met with shrill cries of anathema. Our passions whether they be sexual or otherwise need to be brought under control. That is why it is so important to be well-versed in Catholic teaching and to frequent the sacraments, especially Penance and the Eucharist, regularly. We simply cannot fight our passions on our own–we need divine assistance and vigilance.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Break,

It is wrong to hurt anyone. Ask yourself why Homosexuals cause such harm to themselves? They have a high rate of mental illness, high rate of sucide, substance abuse and other maladies…why does this LGBT do such harm to themselves?

Gee, I don’t know. It’s not like anyone is bullying/berating/demeaning/harassing them. That never happens!

 

[Michael_Allen]

Michael
It is found, but not as a gene, or as a natural part of animal behavior. For example, it is found among rats when they are living in overcrowded conditions. That has to do with envronment, not genes.

There’s homosexual behaviour in the wild as well Charlemagne. Indeed in his study on 33 primate species, Paul Vasey found it to me more common in the wild than in captivity (International Journal of Primatology, 1995, Volume 16, p173-204). As for environment and genes, it appears that both play a role, as well as uterine conditions for the developing baby (especially exposure to abnormal hormone levels).

Behavioral scientists have described a number of functions homsexual behavious may have in “normal” behaviours of the group, these range from dominance to developing co-operative relationships. I do think science has taken us on from a position of just saying homosexuality is abnormal to starting to understanding what influences sexual behaviour (genetic, developmental and environmental) and possible reasons these behaviors are sometimes seen in mammals and especially primates. To say again, that does not deal with the morality (to kill or maim a male rival is also natural in many species), but gives us a better understanding which may inform our discussions on the morality.

 

[Kal2012]

I’m sorry guys, I respect you, each one of you, you’ve been so welcoming and so so nice to me and I can not deny that, but yet, your God is different, I tried and tried and tried to understand him, but all what I can see, is an angry, homophobic God who was killing and destroying cities and people and then he come in human look talking about love and passion and accepting others!!, it doesn’t fit. I wish if the old testament wasn’t part of the bible, but I can’t accept book like that with bloody murders and killing kids and taking virgins to the isreali men and yet, you saying he is LOVE. if that is love, than I don’t want it.

So, let me get this straight. You claim to be a ‘new Christian’ (per profile information), but then you get angry because the OT is part of the Bible and you don’t like specific teachings of the church.

The fact is that the OT is important if you want to understand what Jesus was coming to change.

It’s hard to tell a story about change, if nobody knows why Jesus was different than other Jews. Christianity comes out of the Jewish faith. The OT is the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible (except Christians put the books in a different order).

I tend to take the view of one commentator who said that it’s wonderful that Genesis is full of screwed up families and relationships because it shows us that the human condition really hasn’t changed over time. That the matriarchs and patriarchs of the Bible were far from perfect people.

 

[Kal2012]

Also, I don’t know if I can agree with your argument that gay people are the most hated people on Earth - given how much they are celebrated in Western popular culture.

Every culture has biases. I live in a very segregated area. It’s the 21st century, but you’d never know it by the way people around this area stereotype and behave towards each other. This is slowly changing, but there’s a lot of suspicion of the ‘other’. I’m not originally from this area, so getting used to all the hate and anger has been a challenge at times.

Given the circles I run in, the least popular people are specifically conservative Christians (and especially the RCC).

I always find it kind of interesting that nobody wants to tear down the conservative Muslims or Jews, but it’s always the conservative Christians and the practicing Catholics that have to be destroyed and proven wrong.

Why were any of us allowed to be born? Being a Christian isn’t easy, OP. You aren’t required to like everything in the Bible. The Bible causes all of us to question at times. It’s supposed to!

Jesus didn’t say to the disciples, follow me on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday and the rest of the week you can do what you want. Living the Christian life is a huge lifestyle change and more than likely, you will suffer (in some way) for being a Christian.

 

[DexUK]

Dakota,

Careful with the genetic theory. It becomes a slippery slope. Imagine that someday a gene is discovered that is linked to gay and that gene also has links to a form of deadly disease…then you will have genetic counselors in the secular world testing for this gene to abort those babies…

I believe, doubt that there will ever be any link to genetics…

At least you’re now apparently open to the possibility, however faint it may seem to you.

With that in mind, don’t you think it would be more becoming of you to talk about people who are homosexually inclined in more charitable terms? You know… just in case your normal method of describing the phenomenon is wrong?